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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: 3Under on March 10, 2007, 08:25:00 AM

Title: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: 3Under on March 10, 2007, 08:25:00 AM
I 'm requesting some feed back on Howard Hill Longbows. I 've got  (and had) recurves, a self-bow, a R/D longbows and a hybrid longbows.

I'm considering ordering a 64", 55 lbs. @28 "Big Five Wesly Special". Will there be much hand shock with this type H.H bow?
What kind of arrow speed would I expect with a 500 to 550 grain arrow. How forgiving  would it be compared to some the above bows I've mentioned.
I would appreciate your comments!
Thanks
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: John McCreary on March 10, 2007, 08:42:00 AM
Craig Akin makes the finest example of the Classic American longbow, the Wesly may well his best, PERIOD. Hand shock? not if you learn to shoot it correctly. Which means your bow hand placed to the outside of the bow handle. Invisin the proximal knuckle of your thumb rolled towards the center of the handle.
As to speed, Craig claims to get 115 fps plus the poundage weight in arrow speed, which in your case is 170 fps. My experience has shown this to be a bit ambitious. Truth be told speed doesn't kill, momentum and shot placement do. However if you are looking for a fps screamer you'll be disappointed.


John
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: MAC on March 10, 2007, 08:46:00 AM
I will second what John said...  HH is all I shoot/ own after I have shot/ owned most of the others. Craig makes a fine bow.
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: HARL on March 10, 2007, 08:53:00 AM
You either Love them or hate them.I love them and find no hand shock.I have a few,but like them 68" for my 29" draw.Most comments I get are how smooth the bow is to draw concidering the weight.Check out this site.
http://www.howardhillshooters.com/
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: James Wrenn on March 10, 2007, 09:01:00 AM
You did not say what kind of draw length you have but if it is 28" or longer a longer bow would be better.A 68" or 70" would better suit a 28"+ draw.Speed would be dependant on your draw length and how good of a release you have.jmo
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Stone Knife on March 10, 2007, 09:10:00 AM
I have two big fives both are 66" 48# @28" my draw length is 26.5. Both are very smooth and like stated if they are held properly there is no hand shock
If your hand is small i would make sure that you tell Craig not to make the grip too large i have heard that the Wesley's have a bigger grip than the big five and the ones i have are all the grip i want i have relatively small hands. Just a heads up they are great bows mine seem quick and it is feather light, smooth and the quality is high.
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: 3Under on March 10, 2007, 09:18:00 AM
Thanks for your responses. I draw 28". (My Wes Wallace longbow is 66" and 56lbs @ 28".
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: bayoulongbowman on March 10, 2007, 09:30:00 AM
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: James Wrenn on March 10, 2007, 09:34:00 AM
If you are shoot a 66" Wallace now you certainly need to go longer on the Hill or you will not enjoy shooting it.Don't expect to get the same performance from the Hill as you do the Wallace and you won't be as disapointed. jmo
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Montauks on March 10, 2007, 09:46:00 AM
I'll second what James says go 68- 70", 550+ on arras.

Gene
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: mike g on March 10, 2007, 10:30:00 AM
Craig at HH will tell you what Bow length will get the best performance at your draw length....
   A 500 - 550 weight arrow will be fine.
Hill bows like heavy arrows....
   As mentioned above, grip it right and use a heavy arrow and you'll love the HH bow....
   I think they are the best for Hunting moving game....
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: aromakr on March 10, 2007, 10:34:00 AM
3under:
I've shot Hills for over 30 years, they are a great bow. However I too would suggest a longer bow nothing under 66". I disagree with the speed someone mentioned. I have bows in the mid-60# range and with 650grs arrows have never gotten more the 165 fps, but you don't need more than that. I've shot completely through Water Buck and Gemsbok. The are as big or bigger than any Elk. The Key is keeping your arrow weight up, 10 grains per pound is minimum. And if your screen name means you shoot three under, tell Craig so he can tiller it correctly.
Bob
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: MAC on March 10, 2007, 10:37:00 AM
Hey Bob is Craig your neighbor?
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: R H Clark on March 10, 2007, 10:40:00 AM
I love the thought of a Hill bow but I tried one Big 5 and handshock was an issue. Now don't get mad at me because I am sure I wasn't holding it right and it wasn't tuned properly. 70lb draw with a 630grn arrow hurt bad.It felt like catching a line drive baseball without a glove. My palm was red after about 10 shots. I would love to try one properly set up with some help on form. I am not trying to bash a bow MANY people love, just saying it might be wise to try one with some help from the owner before spending your money. Good luck.
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Clint B. on March 10, 2007, 11:36:00 AM
I believe Howard Hill, for his own longbows, recommended 68" AMO for a 28" draw & he said only go down to a 66" AMO for a 26" draw. My sources are books written by Hill and John Schulz. The trend for short Hill longbows came long after Mr. Hill.
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: 3Under on March 10, 2007, 11:42:00 AM
Thanks Trad Gangers,I really appreciate your helpful comments. I'm not looking for blistering speed, since I've got a Morrison recurve @60lbs plus a Thunderhorn for a Hybrid, but would like a good shooting Hill type bow!
Thanks again!
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: aromakr on March 10, 2007, 02:46:00 PM
MAC:
Yes, they live about 2 miles from me.
Bob
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: GregD on March 10, 2007, 03:20:00 PM
If you are having problems with hand shock give Craig a call and try a fast flight string. I would say that mine went from minimal vibration to completely dead in your hand. Without increasing bow noise
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Frank V on March 10, 2007, 04:34:00 PM
I am going to shoot the technohunt with a Howard Hill I just bought from Bob & will let you know about velosity as the technohunt chronographs each arrow. I have only shot about 30 arrows through mine, & haven't found any handshock. Frank
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: TSP on March 10, 2007, 05:00:00 PM
Hill bows are lighter and livelier in the hand than many other 'longbows' ...and some folks (me included) kinda' like that 'thump' feel.  Each person is different but in most cases those who feel 'handshock' simply aren't holding the bow properly.  Thats not a slam on those who feel handshock, its just a bit of advice for getting the bow to shoot comfortably.  When it comes to having a good or bad experience with Hill longbows the truth is the same as with any good bow... it's not the bow as much as it is the shooter.  

I'll second the suggestion for a 68" bow rather than 66" for a true 28" draw, but from what I've seen a 28" draw is unusual with Hills because the shooter needs to use more of a side-of-handle grip and more of a bent elbow.  Your draw, if 28" with most trad bows and especially with recurves, will likely shrink a little with a Hill longbow.
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Frank V on March 10, 2007, 10:43:00 PM
My bow averaged 151.2 fps for 30 shots with arrows averaging 569.8 grs five different arrows were used in the shoot they have huge round blunt points required by the technohunt. I'm wondering if they cause lower velosities. I will chrongraph them on my chrony with field points. My bow is 61 lb. It has no handshock at all, it's very comfortable to shoot. It also has no string silencers & is very quiet. Frank
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Nala on March 10, 2007, 11:27:00 PM
I would love to give one a try.  Does anyone know if they have a TEST DRIVE program for people who want to try one?

Nala
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: trh1 on March 11, 2007, 04:26:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by bayoulongbowman:
 
:knothead:    ;)
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: -Achilles- on March 11, 2007, 12:01:00 PM
I honestly dont notice any hand shock...I dont shoot heavy arrows and I dont hold it any certain way ...I shoot it the same way I do my other bows...there is handshock in every bow but you can get used to it quickly...I just ordered a cheetah and I can hardly wait to get it  :bigsmyl: ...LOVE HILL BOWS
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: 3Under on March 11, 2007, 01:06:00 PM
Thanks Frank for the arrow speed info.
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Dick in Seattle on March 11, 2007, 01:22:00 PM
Boy... my favorite thread and I'm out of town for most of it!  :^)    I see that someone already gave 3 under the address for out HH web site.  There is a great page of careful pix of hand grips.  

As to shock, I am currently suffering from terrible disappointment.   I have spent the last year and a half buying Howard Hill bows, looking for the famous terrible hand shock, so that I could shoot anyway and be macho about it.   Drat it!  I have 19 Hills on the wall now and have had six other that I let getaway from me.   Weights have run from 27# to 74#.  I can't find the hand shock.   I was told they were all shocky... well, that ain't so.  Then I was told, OK, it's the older ones are shocky...  Got two Schulz built and a Kramer... sweet, sweet shooters.   Then I got one from a guy who promised me it was the legendary bone breaking, tooth rattling, shocky Hill.   Heck, it's so sweet it gave me my best group yet and sits in my lap and purrs while I watch tv!   I think these guys are all just mean people who are deliberately leading me on.   Every time the subject comes up, 100 guys jump out and tell about hand shock.   I want to see it!

Here's my offer... if you have a Hill you think is a terrible shocker, mail it to me.  I'll shoot it.  If it shocks, I'll send it back with a $100 bill.   However, if it shoots sweet and gives me the same size group I get with all of the others, I get to keep it.   Now, I know what you're thinking... but I'm an honest man.   Many here have dealt with me.  If it shocks, I'll say so and actually be glad to finally have experienced what you all are talking about.   What could be fairer?

PS... I'd especially like a Hill by Tim Meigs to add to the collection...

Seriously (though that offer is serious...) as someone said, many love them, many hate them.  They've been around too long and been loved by too many for the problem to be with the bow.  You've got to make up your mind that you want to master this type of bow, and then apply yourself to doing so.  It's a different approach to shooting, but it's worth the effort.  If you want the easy approach, where you can do all of your compensating with the bow, instead of improving yourself... get a modern bow with all the adjustments.

Dick in Seattle
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Frank V on March 11, 2007, 05:02:00 PM
Larry, your welcome. I will chronograph it some day with field points & see if there is any difference between them & the large blunts. Frank
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Frank V on March 18, 2007, 05:04:00 PM
Had to look back to find this thread, I chronographed the same arrows I used in the technohunt this afternoon. I picked one arrow of the 5, it wieghes 574grs it has the large brass blunt & I got faster speeds here in the backyard than in Uncle Bob's indoors. I averaged 164.6fps 2 feet from the chrony 10 shots with a high of 165.9 & a low of 162.2 that gives an extreem spread of 3.7fps I think my form is improving. The arrow I used today is a bit heavier than the average I took on all 5 arrows @ the technohunt & still getting 13.4 fps more speed. I had the feeling all along that the technohunt chronograph was a bit slow.
I also chronographed the same arrows with field points & got an average of 170.8fps so I do think the large blunts do cost some velosity.
  I also chronographed some whispering wind arrows that are split hex arrows by Bob Burton (these are what I hunt with) they wiegh 659grs, I got an average of 160.2 fps.
I hope I'm not too late with this data to interest some of those who shoot a Howard Hill bow I had a blast chronographing the different arrows. Thanks Frank
  :campfire:    :archer:    :archer:
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: schnitz on March 18, 2007, 08:55:00 PM
i got a big five 73lb at 28 inches 63 inch long good hunting bow shoot real fast and quiet with 600 gr arrows i like it little easer to use in heavy cover and in a stand sweet bow to shoot
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: SlowBowinMO on March 18, 2007, 09:30:00 PM
Frank, I'm glad to see it, thank you.

How far are you drawing that bow anyway?
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Frank V on March 18, 2007, 10:31:00 PM
Timothy, You are welcome I had a great time getting the data over several days.I'm drawing 28" Bob weighted the bow on his comercial scale & it's 61lb@ 28" I have a handheld scale & get 60 lb. On my handheld scale I'm kinda guessing as where to anchor using the scale,so am taking Bob's measurment as the tue one. I have measured my draw length several times & I get 28".
Shannon I'd really be interested in seeing what your 73lb bow is doing. I was really surprised when I looked at this bow & actually drew it. It's so smooth if you would have asked me what I thought it drew I'd have said about 55 lb before we actually weighed it. I'm really having fun getting to know it.Thanks guys these bows are really smooth & fun to shoot Frank
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: BobCo 1965 on March 19, 2007, 08:48:00 AM
Very stable bows IMO. I have two of them and have a John Schulz on the way. My son also shoots a HH Chetah which to me is a super pretty bow.
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: 3Under on March 19, 2007, 02:25:00 PM
Frank,
Thanks again for additonal testing info. It confirms my experience with Technohunt versus a chronograph.
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Frank V on March 19, 2007, 06:02:00 PM
Larry you are welcome. I had a great time getting the data over several days. I really did suspect there was a difference in the technohunt chrono & mine. I have checked the chrony against a pact by placing the chrony on the rails seperating the sky screens of the pact & chronoed the same shot on both chrono's, the difference was 2 fps so I know the chrony is accurate. Frank
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Dick in Seattle on March 19, 2007, 07:36:00 PM
Frank V...    I wonder if you would mind if I used your chrono info for our Howard Hill Shooters web site?    I'm sure it would be of interest to folks who visit there and are seeking speed info.

Dick in Seattle
Title: Re: A call to Howard Hill Longbow Owners
Post by: Frank V on March 20, 2007, 07:45:00 AM
Dick, I would not mind at all we need to remember though the results were for my bow being shot my me, & could vary on someone else's bow.Feel free to use the data.I looked at your site & enjoyed it. Frank