I'd like to get some statistics on the various shooting styles utilized by the TradGangers. Please vote based on which of the following criteria BEST describes your style of shooting.
INSTINCTIVE - You have no conscious awareness of your bow or arrow and focus 100% of your attention on the target 100% of the time. You typically do not think much about "yardage" and just trust yourself to make the appropriate adjustments.
HYBRID - You begin with a conscious awareness of your bow or arrow and use it as a beginning reference, then you shift your focus 100% to your target. You tend to give some thought to "yardage" as you relate it to your beginning reference point.
GAP - You use the gap method, or a similar method of aiming where you consciously consider "yardage" and use some reference (arrow tip etc.) to align to the target. You split your attention between the target and the reference point to stay aligned.
I thought you had an interesting poll started. My answer would have been 'hybrid'. I don't really think specifically about yardage, but I am aware of the arrow, and then try to bear down on the target.
ttt
I'm not real sure what I do. I do know every time I think about what I am doing or read one of those gap vs instinctive threads my shooting goes downhill.
I stare/burn a hole where I want the arrow to go,raise and hit anchor(it is at this point I make some kind of adjustment because I can see my bow hand moving} I hold for maybe a second and release.
I can release the second I hit anchor and shoot pretty well but normally I do better if I pause a second to make some kind of adjustment.
I voted Hybrid
I don't think I fit into one of those.
I shoot off of my arrow trajectory.
Thanks for the clarification Mike. I'd say you are just barely a hybrid - mostly instinctive. I think that final adjustment during the pause is normal with many instinctive shooters. Sometimes I need to do that and sometimes I don't. Whatever it takes to make the shot "feel" right.
You can't see your trajectory till the arrow is loosed. That means you mentally picture what will happen and adjust accordingly. You are not aiming, you are projecting. Instinctive.
There is a missing perspective.
What if you look down the arrow sort of like a shot gun barrel for windage and you just use your intuition(instinct?)" to figure the distance and drop.
Dartwick, that fits in with the hybrid style.
i am concentrated on the spot but i'm aware of the alignment of the arrow shaft. i'm looking along it, much the same as how dale karch explains in masters of the barebow. that way i believe any windage error is a result poor alignment or bad release. but in saying that, i've had shots on game that have been completely automatic. don't remember consciously doing anything.
like mikew, i shoot better after settling into anchor for a moment "allowing things to line up".
guess i'm a hybrid/instinctive. voted hybrib though.
Hybrid
Havn't heard of hybrid before. But, thats it.
I dont know. The description you gave of hybrid and what I do - do not have much in common.
If your anchor puts the back of arrow under your eye its fairly automatic that your mind will line it up with the target.
Im fully aware that the arrow is there but Im not focusing on it at all. The arrow it self is being used to aim but Im not thinking about it.
And Im not giving any conscious thought at all to the range.
I concentrate on my target and the next thing I know the arrow is there. The less I have to think about, the better!!! Pat
Just what Pat B said. In fact if I think about it I screw up. I find that this is also true for when I shoot sporting clays etc. My body knows what to do-my mind just needs to stay out of the way! :) I know that some have said you HAVE to be seeing the arrow somehow but I swear I am not aware of it and that if someone could somehow change the color without my knowing they'd done so, we'd have our proof as I wouldn't be able to tell them what color it was. In fact, I have mistakenly fired an arrow without the tip on it. :readit: ! Maybe it can be argued that it is in my preconscious awareness however, who knows?
I shot an arrow without the tip yesterday. I know where you are coming from Pat B and Curveman. My anchor puts the arrow some where under and between my eyes. I'm also left-dye dominant and shoot right handed. If I consciously look at the arrow it seems to be all over the place and not remotely lined up with the target but if I just focus on the spot it manages to go there most of the time. Sometimes it's so precise it is scary (I said some times!).
Hybrid for me... I think I use a little of all shooting styles
I focus on my form and the aim point but if the distance is over 15 yards I make a mental note that I need to aim higher but don't change my focal point just instinctively raise higher. If that makes any sense. I find if I shoot faster I slide more to the purely instinctive. I voted hybrid.
Now that depends on the bow!
I have traditional target bows (Bear Tamerlane and Colt Trohpy Mk II) I shoot them in classic Olympic style
I shoot a Browning Explorer II hunting recurve, I guess by your defintition - it would be a hybrid stye.
I also shoot English Longbow and 'primitive' self bows - they are more more to instinctive style.
Do I get to vote 5 times!!!
ttt
I guess hybrid gap. The only time I see the arrow is when I start to draw, then I burn a hole in my target and don't see or pay attention to the arrow. Must be the push/pull method because when I start to draw I point the arrow at the target, focus more on the arrow than I do the target, but that changes about half way thru the draw and my focus shifts to the target and I don't see or pay attention to the arrow. Works for me. Instinctive? Gap? Hitting what I'm looking at, yes. I've tried to gap shoot 3 under and just couldn't do it. As long as I concentrated on what I was doing I was OK. Once I concentrated on what I wanted to hit my natural shooting style took over.
Just concentrate on the target, just like any other sport that involves an object you 'let fly'
i started out instinctive...then got TP pretty bad....went to a clicker on all my bows and i began what you call " hybrid" shooting form. it works for me. the first thing i do when i get a bow setup is find my point-on. after that i get accustomed to the arrows trajectory.
I like to think that your first shot is the only instinctive shot that you take. After that you have some sort of reference that you mentally use.
Where does split vision fall under...gap...
Instinctive. I never see the arrow and/or the arrow point. I just look at a spot on the target or animal and somehow the arrow gets close to where I'm looking.
I pick a spot to hit, draw, anchor, concentrate on that spot, release, and then follow through. The more attention I pay to the arrow the worse I shoot.
Hybird
QuoteOriginally posted by SpikeMaster:
I pick a spot to hit, draw, anchor, concentrate on that spot, release, and then follow through. The more attention I pay to the arrow the worse I shoot.
:thumbsup: Have to agree, if I over think the shot it all turns to custard :banghead:
I'd bet that most of the instictive shooters are really hybrid shooters,
Well Im still working on re learning, but what I did when I could actually hit stuff was practice, tune and shoot beyond 20 yards with point of aim (guess the gap and focus on a spot below or above what you want to hit with the point of the arrow based on yardage)POA not gap IMO.
Anything less than 15 yards just point and shoot,I dont even look at the arrow.
Phil
INSTINCTIVE until I hit my point on @50yds then its gap.
Thanks to all who have responded (166 and counting).
It's been very interesting. . . keep it coming.
Thank goodness I didn't have anyone or any info to teach me how to shoot a traditional bow! I taught myself. I look at the spot and nothing else. I believe I'm a better shot for it too.
Just a few weeks ago I shot my backyard target with a Judo by mistake. I had no idea I had done it until I pulled it out.
I can't possibly hit a target if I even glance at my arrow. I've tried it a few times just to understand what gapping is. It was pretty wild!
At 50yd or so I do start to notice the arrow but try to ignore it. At longer ranges I actually look under my hand.
Been working pretty good for me so far.
I think Hybrid would be Howard Hills style of Split V. Hybrid works good for me.
Im a hybrid, with trouble.
I've evolved from a Fred Bear-like snap/instinctive method (how he pulled that off so consistently I'll never know...) to a dedicated gap method, and eventually settled on the "instinci-gap" method I've used for the last few years. I'm aware of the arrow point in my peripheral vision, but it isn't consciously part of the shot anymore...
Sorry I was not able to finish my first post
INSTINCTIVE until I hit my point on @50yds then its gap. I'll explain how I shoot.
I burn a hole through where I want my arrow to pass through and just keep pulling until my clicker makes a little bump, then the arrow hits the spot I was looking at.
Once I hit point-on, I gap, for one thing the arrow is covering the spot I'm looking at, if it's 55 or 60 yards the arrow is above what I want to hit and you cant help looking at the arrow in relationship to what you want to hit.
There are so many variables to how someone shoots it's hard to explain.
I think you should shoot to master a style that gets you the results your looking for, if it's not working, try a different style until you find one that works for you.
That's part of the fun
That IS the bottom line. Do what works and what is fun for you!
I concentrate on the target and am aware of the arrow at the same time. I anchor and adjust till it feels right. This happens rather quickly.I dont worry about yardage but do envision the arc of the arrow. I voted hybrid.
Im a gap shooter used to be hybrid but my scores on 3-d went up so much when I started gap shooting I never went back. In the field I range reference points so I know where my yardage is.
Didn't answer this when I first ran across it because it had been SO long since I shot a bow I couldn't remember what I did. After getting a chance to shoot today after a 28+ year hiatus I discovered that I shoot instinctive. My muscles "feel" the draw weight and my brain, somehow, interprets/calculates the trajectory. Surprised myself I did on how much I wasn't even thinking about WHERE I was pointing the arrow. And, yes, I was hitting the target! :D
Instinctive..I only see the "spot"...Ive tested this at night using a laser pointer in pitch darkness, and my groups improved; enough to convince me that all I need to do is "bore a hole"
DangrsDan, Welcome back!
Hi J-Kid. :wavey: Guess there was someone else who had my handle previously. Been DngrsDan for a lotta years in a lot of forums, but only been in Tradgang for a few weeks. Just getting back into archery after a llllooooonnngg absence. Read "Got to shoot" that I posted in PowWow.
Pleased to meetcha.
(Tried to send this to ya as a PM, but yer mailbox was full.)
Dan
DngrsDan, Nice looking dog! I read a lot of the forums but this is the only one I've joined. I think the best of the bunch are right here and the wealth of info is amazing. I'm kind of sporadic too. I get busy writing a book or something and I can't get on here much. Just finished a book a couple months ago and I'm on here everyday it seems. Hope you enjoy the place and I'll clean out my mailbox!
Just read the majority of this and I have a lot to learn....I draw, anchor, pick my spot and have at it. Never see my arrow until it is airborn.
I think a number of variables go into how one chooses to shoot. For example, I shoot right handed and I'm left eye dominant. if I were right eye dominant I might find over time that my arrow helps in my alignment at a conscious level. I focus fully on the target because nothing on my end has ever proven useful to get the arrow to the mark and it does get there with my method. I also enjoy getting my focus down range and "willing" my arrow to the spot. Second, I don't shoot 3D etc. If I did I might have to use some method of aiming just to stay competitive. I don't really know because I have never competed. My interest is in hunting and that one shot that really counts. I don't know if my concentration would hold up over the course of a tournament. In other words, many things dictate how we shoot as individuals. It all comes down to doing what is necessary to really enjoy the sport as you like to play it.
QuoteOriginally posted by J-KID:
I also enjoy getting my focus down range and "willing" my arrow to the spot.
This is also one of the most important and often misunderstood aspects of gap shooting. IMO nothing is more conductive to consistent accuracy than total conscious focus on intended target.
I'm not well versed in gap shooting so educate me here if you would.
QuoteIMO nothing is more conductive to consistent accuracy than total conscious focus on intended target.
Are you saying the subconscious is the part aware of the tip of the arrow? If "total conscious focus" is 100% then there is no room left for the conscious to be aware of the reference point. A handgun shooter focuses on the front sight as does an open-sight rifle shooter. Consequently, the target is naturally a little out of focus. Does a gap shooter do the opposite? Is the target in focus and the reference point out of focus?
Also, a good instinctive shooter (using my classifications of focusing 100% on the target) can hit a spot just as a good gap shooter can hit a spot. I think the gap shooter can hit the spot repetitively more often than an instinctive shooter which is why competition shooters often adopt this technique. Do you agree with this? I know I am confident in my ability to put the first couple arrows where I want, however, if I keep on shooting arrow after arrow my groups spread out because my ability to concentrate begins to fall off. Maybe I just have an attention deficit problem.
Jay, yes, even good compound sight shooters focus on target and allow the subconscious the mantain sight calibration.Lots of difference in needed follow through between firearm and arrows...even a relatively slow round such as 45 ACP@ 840 fps the projectile reaches the point of not being shooter influence( out the barrel) much faster than our arrows, so being totally involved in the shot at the point of intended impact (target) allows our subconscious to help . I call this getting out from behind the bow and going to target!
Fascinating! I never even considered the dynamic of projectile speed and it's influence on aiming. I guess there is a problem with my gun/bow analogy. That gives me something to ponder for a while.
I think the importance of "getting out from behind the bow and going to target" may be the single most important quality for accurate and consistent shooting. To whatever degree one is focused on mechanics (behind the bow) to that same degree they cannot be focused on the target. We can only consciously attend to a single thing at a time and we need to keep our attention down range. That's the wisdom behind blank bale work. Good stuff.
I could not answer, as I shoot split vision. I am aware of the point of my arrow and still focus on a spot but never think yardage. I pull the two together and shoot. Shawn