Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: IronCreekArcher on January 06, 2009, 01:50:00 PM
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I was just wondering what everyone thinks about the Muzzy Phantoms in the 4-blade configuration. Anyone with some experience with them? Do you guys think the Woodsman would be a better multiple blade choice for a 49 lb set-up than the 4-blade Phantoms? Thanks for the help guys...
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Never tried the Woodsman, but I've shot 4 blade Phantoms for 4 years now. Very sharp, easy to resharpen, and they fly great.
Billy
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I always heard that a 4 blade penetrates better through bone than a 3 blade. Something having to do with a 4 blade breaking the bone on 2axis and the three blade on 3axis. That said I am going to finish this season with Woodsman and save my Muzzy's for hogs a javalina. Keep in mind I have yet to take anything larger than a javalina with my logbows.
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At 49#, I think you'd be better off with a WW...JMHO though...
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What Curt said.....
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Flip a coin. As long as both are sharp, I doubt you would know the difference in flight and lethality. Or better yet, shoot them both. :)
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My wife shoots 46# @ 26" and a 500 grain Beman MFX shaft with 100 grain inserts and 100 grain Phantom four blades. She shoots thru everything she kills. Back when Fred Bear introduced the four blade Razorhead the average bow weight was about 45# and everyone seemed to be using them without problems.Here she is with her first kill.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Arrowworks/Bearweb.jpg)
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I hear ya Bill...but those bear heads had smaller bleeders and they were thinner and designed to shear off with little resistance.
The Muzzy's have much larger bleeders and are much thicker and aren't likely to shear away with little resistance.
I feel either would work, and as you know I love 4 blades.....but I'd still preffer the WW out of a bow that light.
He also didn't say what he was going to hunt for with those heads, so I defaulted to what I hunt for most, and I'd definately choose the WW for hogs out of that weight bow. If only whitetails...either would be fine IMO, but would still lean to the WW.
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Stingers....
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My Buddy John Bookhart killed 19 pigs this year with a 45 lb longbow and 2020 arrows and 225 grain phantoms plus 4 deer. He killed 23 hogs last year with the same set-up with an occasional Landshark used. All on public land....They`ll probably work on all but the shoulder shots on big hogs. He did kill two hogs over 250 lbs..RC
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I will also add that he bought two packs of three when he started using them.He has all six left and did all this critter killing with 4 of the heads.RC
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We'll that's a heck of a tesimony RC :thumbsup: ...so like someone else said....flip a coin. ;)
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as terry said, the bleeders on the phantoms are huge, almost, if not as wide as the main blade, i cant remember exactly. the big bleeders are very steep, due to them being wide and short. they would tend to tear through, rather than thouroughy slicing, and that would harm penetration, especially from a lighter bow. the woodsmen on the other hand is long, narrow, and can be super sharp, just the ticket for a lighter bow. for small deer, either, for anything heavier, the woodman, hands down.
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I have taken several animals with the WW but tried the 125g Phantom this year and like it a little bit more. Great flight, no noise or hiss, easy to sharpen, excellent penetration, Huge Hole. Downside - they won't screw into a cedar arrow. Flip a Coin. ;)
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Both fine heads no doubt.Some thought about what Terry said on the Phantoms bleeder being thick. It would probably be an improvement for bows of less poundage if the bleeder was a brittle one.
I am getting some glue on Razorheads I`m gonna put on some 100 grain steel adapters and put bleeders in.Should work fine for my 48# bow. I`ve decided to stop hurting the shoulder and enjoy my shooting more.RC
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I used Phantoms this year on deer with good result, I shoot 53# at 25" with a 560grain arrow. However that is on soft skinned deer not on some of the tougher animals like hogs or bigger game. Doesn't take a lot to punch both lungs on a deer. But like Terry and Curt stated with other game you may want to try something a little more stream line. I think those fellas have killed enough critters to know what their talking about. :thumbsup: Heres a pic of an exit wound from the Phantom. Joe
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg177/Joe-Mart/P1000241_1.jpg)
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nice photo Joe,your pretty darn good w/ that camera!
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I bought a pack of the 125 gr phantoms and was surprised at how dull they were out of the pack. You can push your thumb against the blade and run it up and down the blade, no worries. If any of you guys want them you can have them. First I want them can have them.
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I wouldnt mind trying them out Greg if I'm not to late!
I could trade you for a pack of the new 125 screw in woodsmans if you wanted to try them.
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Jason, I will send them to you. I need your address. PM me your address and I will get them out to you. You don't have to send me the woodsmans. Greg
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Good for you Jason!! JOe
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A point of clarification...I am planning a trip for whitetails to Kansas this fall and my set-up is going to be my 49 lb Black Widow recurve shooting the Easton In-Fused Axis arrow with the finish hunting weight to be determined as I have not tuned the shafts yet. Maybe this will help with the recommendations...keep'em coming guys lots of good info...
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One thing that I did not mention is that all of Johns animals with the exception of two deer were killed on the ground. Shooting downward at close range would honestly make me lean towards the Woodsman. The Phantom does cut big but with low poundage and a close downward shot I`d shoot something with a more promising chance of an exit hole.
Confusing you yet?RC
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Robert, Your experience shows here in every post....good advice bud :thumbsup:
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Having shot both these I will say that IMO it is all a matter of personal choice. I have killed hogs and deer each type of head and both put the animals down in quick order.
They are easy to sharpen if needed and when needed. Both are strong heads that are well designed. To be honest I carry both in my quiver at the same time. For me they fly the same and I have not heard any noticeable noise difference between the two in flight but then again I do not hear very well anymore.
End state is both heads kill equally well so go with the one you have confidence in or better yet put a listing in the classifieds and try to get a couple of each to work with.
Best of luck on your hunt.
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Robert...getting a little confusing...I was hoping for a more concise response but I guess its par for the course as with anything gear related. I am leaning towards the Woodsman but the the fact that the Phantom has more slash factor is apealing...but then again that means nothing without penetration. I hear they are easy to resharpen but that seems unlikely considering they are made from hard stainless steel. Any other suggestions other than the Woodsman for a good multiple blade broadhead for deer from treestands with lower poundage gear? Also, considering the lighter grains per inch of the Axis arrows I am probably going to need a broadhead weight around 200 grains to end up with the finished hunting weight I am looking for...now with all that being said whatcha got for me...lol.
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I don`t get to hunt those big bodied deer you Northern guys do and I kill 95% of my pigs on the ground.I shoot between 47-52 lbs at 27" usually with a Magnus I head .Without bleeders.I got some 125 grain snuffers I`m gonna put 100 grain adapters in with an arrow weight of about 650 grains. I`m not worried about penetration.
If I were concerned I would stick with the two blade ,maybe a stos or big ace for the bigger whitetails But I`m sure the Woodsman will work on all but the shoulder shots.
One thing for certain.Hunting with a stickbow succesfully must be done with confidence in both equipment and shooting.Tradbowhunters will not be at their full potential on game without both.
Kinda like my Mom used to say about life in general and she was wise. If there is any doubt don`t do it.In this case don`t use it.RC
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Both of my bows are light poundage bows as one can see in my signature. I have no problems with deer shooting a 150 grain screw-in WW broadhead. My arrows weigh 553 grains.
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Just to clarify....I think if you shoot either Phantoms or Woodsmans it won't matter a twit as long as you can get them really sharp and they shoot straight. Having said that, I only "stood up" for the four blade Phantom because there seems to be a belief among many trad bow hunters that a light weight bow requires a single blade head. My personal experience does not coincide with that belief. The major issues in determining which bh you should use is how sharp you can get them and how accurately you can shoot them.
As for Phantoms being "dull" out of the package, I would say that if you hunt with a broadhead on an arrow right out of the package that you have not shot to see if it shoots straight (which means that you would need to sharpen it after the practice shooting is over) is a big mistake. I always shoot the bhs I will actually hunt with to make sure they shoot where I am looking and then resharpen them before I put them back in the quiver.
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I shot the phantom 125s this year with very good results. 2 complete pass thrus with my 51 lb longbow.( both were mature does) I am shooting 3355 GTs with 100 grain brass inserts up front. I can also get em sharp with my KME sharpner easily as well. Still hoping to test them out on one of the big boys this last week of the season.
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Anyone else out there wanna comment on the effectiveness or their experience with the two heads stated in the thread title?