Trad Gang

i was just wondering if anyone has ever tried to have bw install a bow bolt on a bow. i like the psa takedown, but i think a pa wit a bolt would be sweet! just curious..
  :help:  
jamie

I don't know if they will do it but if you find out please let me know.  I had thought of that right after they started producing the PA.  It would be my ultimate Widow... in grey please!

i might call them today to find out. nobody wants to touch this one at all... come on widow shooters, im sure dan and myself are not the first person to think of this!!

jamie

I would call widow. Just my .02

I think it would be a great idea to get them to add it as a Custom Option.
Gene

well, i just got off the phone with bw. i was told that it is "out of the queston"!!  :mad:  
so apparently they want nothing to do with it!!
i am curious as to why. i would have asked him, but he seemed offended that i would even ask such a question!!
oh well..... there goes that..  

Seemed like a good idea to me, too.

I thought the same thing myself about 4 years ago when I first developed the Bow Bolt and I sent them a letter with all the information and offered to give them one to try.  Never heard a word back form them.

But can you really blame them?  They have a system that works well for their bows.  Why change something that is working for them.  

Beyond that reasoning, I would be interested in knowing why it is "Out of the Question" and why they would be offended when an existing customer of their's asked the question.

yeah i thought it was a little odd  craig. after all, if the customer wants it, give it to him.
i have yet to her one bad thing about the bolt, and combined with aguably "the best bow" how could that be a bad thing???

it would be cool if sombody put one in their bow by themself. i would be just too scared to ruin the bow!!

:banghead:      :banghead:      :banghead:   I don't WANT their current takedown system.

It may be that the fellow finds it offensive to convert a bow specifically designed to be a one piece when they offer a similar takedown in the PSA series.  

Of course WE know what we want and although I do love the PSA this would (theoretically) be the better bow option for me.  Too bad they won't consider it.  

I think their current takedown system it ugly.  Sorry.  I like the "hidden" bow-bolt.  I wonder if they would even consider using their current two piece takedown system or if they are just opposed to a takedown PA altogether.  Perhaps there is a question of structural integrity (sounds sills to say).  I don't think that any reason is enough to take offense at the question.

i agree 100% danny! the psa bows are nice, but i dont like seeing allen screws. the bow bolt would be awesome.

You need to understand that Widow does everything now on CNC machinery To do one bow for you would require a new program, plus testing as I'm sure their insurance would not cover any devation in construction that has not tested and found safe.
Its kind of like asking Ford to put a Jag engine in their F150 Pickup and then I supose you want a full guarentee also!!
Bob

As a machinist I can tell you it probably has more to do with value earned for risk taken. Why should they take on the risk of working on your bow and maybe ruining it for a small amount of profit when compared to building bows from scratch. If you don't like the outcome, they have to stand behind what they do. The risk is to high for the profit earned. There are better things to work on from a business sense than to add bow bolts to peoples bows. That is why you find very few people willing to take this task on. You have to take on a lot of risk for a small amount of profit. It doesn't make good sense from a business model. Black Widow can keep busy and turn better profit without risking the outcome of a lost bow that you would demand they replace if it didn't come out right. I don't blame them for staying away.
 By the way, you didn't say what you would be willing to pay to have this option added to your bow. It is a $200 option on most bows when it is being put in right from the start. What do you think might be a reasonable price for someone to take on the risk of ruining your bow?
 Also, you will find that most bowyers are now using phenolic, micarta or stronger materials in their handles that they plan to use the bow bolt system on. This can't be accomplished on an already manufactured handle. The last time I talked about ordering a bow bolt with a well known bowyer, he would only add the bow bolt if the handle material was micarta. He had to much trouble with bow handles that weren't specifically strengthened for adding this option. Just some food for thought. jwingman

i appreciate you responce james. here is the deal, i didnt want them to put a bolt in my bow. in fact i dont even own a widow.   :rolleyes:    (yet) i was just wondering if it was an opptoin on NEW bows. and  if anyone has ever done it before..
i was told by vernon, at BW that its "out of the question". that is on new or used..   :saywhat:    

i just think its odd is all. i would bet if i called up, say horne, or zona, or striker bows and asked for a specific t/d model they would oblidege. i could be wrong though, it has happend a time or two!   :banghead:  

jamie

I don't think they are opposed to a takedown PA.  
 It's called the PSA.

Hey Jamie, I'm sure they have a good reason's for not wanting to use the bolt system. They do offer two take down systems currently that are pretty much boom proof, six different bow models, eight different limb lengths, and almost any kind of wood that you can dream up. And they do all of this with only 9-1/2 employees.  

These guys are top notch in everything they do. That is what sets them apart from the pack. They have always gone on and above for me and every one else I have ever talked to.  

It's nice to know I can call them and someone will be there to answer the phone. And they have been there for me the last eighteen years that I have been buying bows from them.

Give me a shout if you want any info I might be able to help with. I have been to their shop so I can tell you first hand what it's like there. Glen

I talked to them about a two piece recurve
(SA Style) several years ago, ken told me just not no but he77 no!

I wanted it for back packing, I hate having to deal with allen bolts wrenches and BS

Prime example I shot a MT goat was going to take my BW down for the pack out and lost the allen wrench---ended up tying the bow to my pack cross wise, because I needed both hands free to get out.

I now have a Big River Recurve that is two piece and is my #1 back pack bow!  thanks Black widow

dont get me wrong, i am not intending oon "bashing" BW. but i just thought they would be a little more open to other forms of take downs. i will still buy a bw someday regardless..

I have installes a couple doz. bow bolts in bows for my customer.  Have had no trouble at all.  Just a little more time and expense.  But I build my bows 1 at a time and I am my only employee.  I agree with jwingman that the cnc operation would pretty much nix that bolt idea.  I suppose I put a bold in about every 50 or 60 bows.  Don't think Widow would find that kind of assembly line breakup profitable at all.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not sayin Widow is not a custom type bow, and a really good one but they do have a production system that I would think could not be varied to much, imho

Allen bolts wrenches, I hate them too; this is the reason I use the beautyful antler knobs that are very pratical and enhanche the look of your bow.If you don't want affort the price you can use thumb limb bolts. That easy

Guys, On this I will say that perhaps BW is more informed and has considered more than they are getting credit for.

I can tell you that a bowyer I know well has used the bow bolt system and had certain kinds of riser woods fail. There is a risk that I feel is being disregarded by some here. I hope it is not being disregarded as an attempt to bash BW, rather just not knowing that even though the bow bolt is a neat system some bowyers/riser configurations have had issues.

Now as an engineer I can explain why. First you need to look at the riser design and potential stress points. Then you need to look at the kind of riser wood and its inherent strength values. If you have a design that cannot be pocketed out without causing a weakening effect, you have a problem. If all riser woods are NOT created equal (they are not) then stress calculations/factors change and some woods won't bare the same load as others............ Either condition can incur a failure and it is just a matter of material and structural design of the riser.

Hope that seems clear.

I am not knocking the bow bolt. Yes, I am a BW bow owner and I have had a great experience with these guys over time, so my willingness to see their side is probably more acute.

Keepem flying

I like antler knobs as well. In fact Frank S. makes the very best Ive seen!

Bill

if'n ya REALLY wants a Widow, and ya REALLY wants a two-piece, they DO make the PSR in a takedown....  :readit:

Can't bash BW, because I've owned a few.  They make a fine product and have terrific customer support.  I just understand Jamie's point.  You want something - that's all.  It's frustrating and funny at the same time.  The grip is right for those of us that shoot that type best and it eliminates the things we didn't like in the PSA series.  It is a desirable bow that in our opinion would be more desirable if you could take it down for travel - that's all.  

Add to the afore mentioned that we happen to like the bow-bolt, so it is natural that would be our system of choice.  Jamie's only point of contention was the way they said "no".  I didn't perceive any lasting frustration and I certainly hope my post weren't viewed that way either.  There are lots of things to want, this is just one.  Still like them BW's!

You would think with all of the glue lines in the Widow and the width of the PA below the grip that it wouldn't be a matter of strength.  It might be a pain to put in for them though.