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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: jesse cales on January 03, 2007, 02:12:00 PM

Title: ups sux w/pics
Post by: jesse cales on January 03, 2007, 02:12:00 PM
sent this kohannah fury to my buddy chas in pa.
i wanted him to get it before xmas so i said,"what the hay",i'll pay the extra money and ship it ups.
   well,this is what he got.i filed a claim.
found out today that i lost.they said it wasn't packed properly.
    the ups lady told me i could appeal but there is a 99% chance i won't win.
   this WAS a beautiful bow.
     (http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/jjedeca/bows090.jpg)
 (http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/jjedeca/bows089.jpg)
 (http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/jjedeca/bows088.jpg)
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: vermonster13 on January 03, 2007, 02:14:00 PM
I never use UPS. Hard to appeal when they do the deciding to boot.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Goose on January 03, 2007, 02:18:00 PM
Yep, been there, done that!  Avoid UPS at all cost!
Goose
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: SpikeMaster on January 03, 2007, 02:21:00 PM
I'll never use UPS again. I always use the USPS. I've never had a problem shipping with the USPS. Fast and cheap.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Dave Lay on January 03, 2007, 02:23:00 PM
I am a shipping manager at my work, our company quit ups and went to fed ex.. due to this exact thing, they would almost never pay claims.. always the same thing.. improper packaging, even though it was securely wrapped in bubble wrap or whatever. I had the usps lose my PLV take down widow longbow recently, but they did pay the claim, but as far as I know it has never surfaced.  but you are right about ups!! they I guess, feel they can do what they want..
sorry for your loss,but I would be FURIOUS with them..
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Curtis Haden on January 03, 2007, 02:24:00 PM
They mishandled this package badly enough to BREAK a limb away from the riser, and you didn't pack it properly??? Holy cow!!!

Wow, I'm just glad my last bow got to me safely. UPS just bought OUT of my business, forever.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: JasonV on January 03, 2007, 02:44:00 PM
How do they determine that it WAS or WASN'T properly packed?????  
I guess if it didn't break, then it was packed OK - if it breaks when they drop a 200# box on it, then YOU didn't pack it well enough??????

A few scratches I can see, even a twisted limb, but broken in 2????????
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: wifishkiller on January 03, 2007, 02:51:00 PM
Man dont even get me started.  I had the worst luck with ups in the last month.  Everything about the same you stated above.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: BobCo 1965 on January 03, 2007, 02:54:00 PM
That really sucks!

Now I'm really glad that I talked an individual into not using UPS to send me a bow yesterday.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: hickstick on January 03, 2007, 03:05:00 PM
yah...also involved in shipping thru UPS at work.   basically if it is not totally encased in packaging that THEY have preapproved, you aint gonna win a claim.

and you should see how they test packing  :)  

the claim process wasn't so bad until they farmed out their insurance/claim business to another company.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Shape Shifter on January 03, 2007, 03:13:00 PM
UPS totally sucks. I recently ordered my nephew a new Bear Grizzly. It was delivered with half the top of the box missing. One of the tip overlays and the top limb was really scratched. I would definitely try to avoid UPS at all costs whenever you can. I think all of us should write UPS cause this is getting outrageous...
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Ed Isaacs on January 03, 2007, 03:26:00 PM
I had a similar episode with USPS...caveat emptor
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Tom Anderson on January 03, 2007, 03:29:00 PM
Nope, you won't recover a cent.
I had a deer mount damaged in shipmentand we opened the box in front of the UPS driver to confirm the damage.
Even got the local news channel "problem solver" lady involved, complete with news coverage. Still, not a cent.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: bowfiend on January 03, 2007, 03:34:00 PM
This happened to me, too. The thing that really gets me is that they are more than willing to take your money for insuring the package and never say word 1 about "proper packaging".
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: knife river on January 03, 2007, 03:49:00 PM
I had similar grief with Fed Ex Ground.  I filed a lawsuit in Small Claims Court.  Fed Ex settled with me -- not a total recovery, but something anyway.  If you feel it was well packaged and protected (and you saved the packaging), you might consider taking it to a judge.  There's a little paperwork on your part and a small court fee, but the satisfaction of winning (or getting a settlement) is worth it.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Jason Lester on January 03, 2007, 04:02:00 PM
We had a problem with UPS too but not with a bow or archery equipment. We had a 1966
Pontiac Tripower manifold and carbs we bought off ebay shiped to us. The guy screwed the thing down inside a wooden crate. When we got it it was broken loose and beat up like it fell out of the truck and rolled around for a couple days. Totaly smashed it up. So we filled a claim. Since it was bought on ebay they won't accept the price we paid. They told us "go to a car dealer and find the cost to replace it" Yeah My local Pontiac dealer has 40 year old parts on the shelf. I ended up finding a couple places online to satisfy this stall tactic. So then they say they will have the UPS driver pick it up and take it to the local UPS office. .. It ended up in New Jersey at a business. Luckily they called us and let us know what UPS had done. They started talking with their UPS people and so did we. It ended up being shipped back to the seller (who still has it BTW) I bet it was 6 months later when we finaly heard from UPS who actually paid up.

I think alot of that was because it was shipped to a business and not somone they could push around. Of couse we kept bugging them too. They loose and accout if we go away from them. They nearly did over that deal. We ship everyday through them. Otherwise I'm sure they would have let us hang.

Sorry the messed you up. But we've had problems with Fed Ex too. Don't use USPS enough to know. I did recieve a bow blank USPS that was just wrapped in buble wrap. And through USPS it was fine.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: bentpole on January 03, 2007, 04:03:00 PM
Just for your info every bow I mail out I take it to mailbox plus next town over I have them package itAnd INSURE IT this just cost GReybeard around 38.00 or so when I mailed him a Chaparral alpine but he received it the next day and in tact.There was a bowyer that refuses to mail his bows out ups. . 38.00 is still cheaper than that 425.00 Kohannah . Bob does build a beautiful bow .
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: bayoulongbowman on January 03, 2007, 04:47:00 PM
let me help ya pvc pipe 2 end caps...shipped with bubble wrap with ins. us post office about 22.00 bucks to ship...no problem..marco#78
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: JRY309 on January 03, 2007, 05:01:00 PM
Thats said,if you ship a bow UPS you need to package it in a bomb-proof package.That's not the first time I have seen bows severly damaged like that shipped by UPS.I men accidents happen but that looks like someone ran over it with a truck.I have had good luck shipping USPS priority mail and I insure.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Meathook on January 03, 2007, 05:06:00 PM
I worked for UPS in various capacities for 11 years been out of there about 10.  I don't know if this still holds true but it is worth a shot.  Now I assume that you paid for additional insurance or your claim is only worth $100 anyway.
 
Call UPS and tell the person on the phone you want to file a "NATIONAL COMPLAINT" this is the internal wording that they use and these, at least at the time, were tracked in the system and got attention  quickly.  

Also don't let them give you the "improperly packaged" crap.  That wont hold in small claims and they know it.  They accepted it into their system and at that point took responsibility for it.

They will cave eventually but they are also tracked on the money they pay out in claims because anything they don't pay is gravy. So it may take a little work.

If all else fails I would go to the local UPS place and tell them you were not leaving until they resolved your issue.  Anyone who says they can't solve your problem you simply tell them, "you obviously arn't smart enough to help me can I please speak to someone smarter than you."     :D
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: sswv on January 03, 2007, 05:32:00 PM
gang!   I know 'jdc' personally and know that he packages with the ut-most care and always insures. UPS screwed this one up for sure. I agree with Meathook on this one "DON'T GIVE UP". I NEVER and I mean NEVER use UPS. Maybe someone from there should read this post.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Ted Fry on January 03, 2007, 05:35:00 PM
jdc , i HAD THE SAME KIND OF RUN IN WITH ups , i TOOK IT TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT AND WON . iF YOU NEED MORE INFO i WOULD BE HAPPY TO HELP . kEEP ALL THE PAPER WORK AS WELL AS THE PACKAGE , YOU WILL NEED IT. dARN CAP LOCKS
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: ChuckC on January 03, 2007, 05:59:00 PM
While eating lunch in DC one afternoon, I WATCHED the UPS driver tossing packages from the front of his van to the back....not sliding them...THROWing them.  Then, on top of that, one of the packages was booted...KICKED from front to back.  Had a few words with him.  I was pissed and the packages weren't even mine.
ChuckC
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: hickstick on January 03, 2007, 06:17:00 PM
Don....UPS now outsources ALL damage claims, so the second you mention the word claim you are on the phone with someone who works for the insurnce company.  and they could care less....
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Walter Mauney on January 03, 2007, 06:44:00 PM
I know a fellow that makes custom guitars and he packs them very well inside a padded case. Then, he puts them in an oversize box with even more padding.

He told me the reason was that a UPS driver told him that they need to be packed to withstand a 10 foot drop!!!!  :eek:
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Bjorn on January 03, 2007, 08:01:00 PM
I have never had FedEx deny a claim of an insured shipment. The Post Office does good work too................UPS is a total waste in my book. Indifferent customer service and just a bad attitude in general. Don't understand why people bother to use them.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: SaskBushMan on January 03, 2007, 08:31:00 PM
I would say just for the heck of it send UPS a email with a copy of all the feedback in this post I know it won't accomplish anything but send it to the right people and it will give them an idea of what people think of there service.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: x_count on January 03, 2007, 08:38:00 PM
Had a similar incident with UPS.  My wife worked as a paralegal for a personal injury attorney at the time and one little phone call from them to UPS got my money.  Ambulance chasers are good for something after all!
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: bbassi on January 03, 2007, 09:52:00 PM
My sister works for Overnight which was bought out by UPS last year. I'm going to send this to her to get her reaction.

You all are scaring me because I'm getting ready to mail a bow to Australia. The shipping alone was $170 for UPS vs. $290 for fedex. oye.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: hickstick on January 03, 2007, 09:52:00 PM
walter..not far off...one of they methods they use to approve packaging is to climb up a 8 foot step ladder and drop the package (with contents enclosed) several times on all sides and corners to "simulate dropping from one conveyor belt to another in their sorting facilities"  if it can survive that with the package, packaging, and contents undamaged...it gets approved.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Mark Fedrizzi on January 03, 2007, 10:09:00 PM
File a small claim--when there insurance contractor calls you (most likely they will have to have an attorney represent them in court)---tell them what your damages are--including your time and expenses to file the claim--time off from work etc--etc--come up with a figure--IF they disagree then tell them it sounds like WE will have to have a judge make a decision---

That usually rattles their cage--

     Good Luck--
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Meathook on January 03, 2007, 10:24:00 PM
Marc, no doubt things have changed some.  

I would become their worst nightmare.  Hell hath no furry like a Meathook scorned.    :D   The unfortunate reality in this world is the squeaky wheel does get the grease.  

Call them everyday and remind them a company is not defined by how they do business when everything goes right that is what people expect when they pay for the service. Tell them a company is defined by how they react when there is a service failure.  

They have a simple choice, make it right, and have a customer that speaks well of them or don't do what is right in which case (after small claims if necessary)you will make it your personal mission to tell at least one person everyday how much UPS sucks and that you plan on living a long long time and that's a lot of bad press.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Meathook on January 03, 2007, 10:31:00 PM
I should also mention I have no beef with UPS they were a great company to work for I learned a great deal that has served me well over the years.  The people I worked with were some of the most dedicated hardest working people you will ever meet.    

My guess is when they went public, although it made a lot of people very rich, things changed some.  When you have to answer to the stock holders your priorities can change.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: redant 60/65 on January 03, 2007, 10:34:00 PM
I stopped using UPS a year ago same thing about packaging, my packages would show up half opened and the driver would just look a me and say well? use Fed-X or USPS.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Raineman on January 03, 2007, 10:38:00 PM
Not telling you something you haven't figured out yet, but I do a fair amount of "Ebay"ing and have used UPS exactly ONE unpleasant time (Hint: I shipped something very heavy). I use US Postal Service ALL the time, and have had NO problems EVER.

I used to work in a shipping department in Baltimore packing various electronic metering devices, and our "packing criteria" was vastly different for UPS. Criteria for them was in the "overkill" department.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: 9 Mile Archer on January 03, 2007, 10:41:00 PM
The key to getting money or refund or whatever you are searching for from a large company is to convince them as quickly as possible that it will cost them far more to fight you than to handle their business properly.  Often that means getting a well drafted letter and than doing some sleuth work on finding out who is the highest ranking person you can get it too.  Sometimes you may need it sent on legal letterhead. You can also try to get information off of Wall Street paperwork.  Find out where headquarters are and ask for the secretary of the highest ranking person in the company(know their name).  Tell your story to the secretary and compliment their business, then ask if you could speak with Mr. CEO. My father is 72 and a semi retired, he can somehow get through to the top secretary in huge companies and then get the CEO or COO on the phone to discuss his problem.(Make sure you know the top Officers names) You would be amazed what he will do to get refunds for stuff that turned out crummy.  His tips are to 1. Be resourceful, 2. Be patient, 3. Be polite, 4. Be persistent.  The sad truth is that you have to make it more trouble for them to say no than yes.  Or bend the ear of someone up high.  Sometimes it works, other times he’s just a 72 year old man on hold   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: mqqse on January 03, 2007, 10:41:00 PM
I think the horse is dead on this one, but I'll throw my $.02  in as well:

If you need to ship UPS, double box.  Someone mentioned guitars earlier and I sell them for a living so I can tell you that UPS requires it on fragile and delicate items of the like.

Be sure and use sturdy cardboard boxes.  Some of the boxes I've seen lately are pathetic and do not withstand the 'normal' handling from one truck to the next.  

The extra time spent on obtaining the right boxes and doing a good packing job is much cheaper than filing a claim.  Never, ever skimp on packaging.  I think all of us would rather wait a day or two longer and get our goods safely than receive a damaged bow.

For what it's worth, I'd follow the same rules for USPS as well.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: SCATTERSHOT on January 04, 2007, 11:20:00 AM
Anything will break if you abuse it enough. Seems like UPS has a reputation of abusing it enough! Good suggestion above about taking them to court. I don't use UPS at all any more. They are expensive, their service sucks, and they are not very helpful if you have a question.

Besides that, if you are shipping a gun, they require their premium overnight service. They went to that because THEIR EMPLOYEES were pilfering the packages. What a concept!
 
 If you're in a hurry, USPS offers Priority Mail, which usually gets anywhere in the lower 48 in two days.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: vermonster13 on January 04, 2007, 11:30:00 AM
USPS also offers Express mail which is Guaranteed Two days and one day to many places. Still cheaper than UPS. The conveyors UPS uses are real hard on bows.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Pasty Face on January 04, 2007, 01:36:00 PM
If it makes you feel any better I smashed the front windsheild of a UPS truck with a snow ball when I was about 12. The driver road by and said to me and my freinds "I bet you cant hit me", well I sure did, you should have seen the look on his face.

I ended up giving my Dad all my Christmas money that year. Dang UPS
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on January 04, 2007, 05:08:00 PM
I once shipped an osage orange stave, 2 1/4" by 1 1/2" by 74" long to a friend here in the the midwest using, you guessed it, UPS.

The stave was inside a schedule 40 PVC tube with end caps.  Couple weeks later my buddy sends me pictures of the tube with one end cap busted through and a 61" long stave with one jagged end inside.  

Folks, osage is tough stuff.  I would wager I could have levered most of UPS's delivery trucks out of a mudhole with an osage stave of those dimensions.  I can't imagine how they did what they did to a cured piece of bodark.

Six years and I haven't shiiped anything with them since.  USPS gets all my buisness now and does a fine job.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: LBR on January 04, 2007, 07:15:00 PM
Doesn't matter how well that bow was packaged (or the stave for that matter)--the force it took to break it would have broken any packaging, short of a steel vault.

I use USPS, and so far so good.

Chad
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Tom Anderson on January 04, 2007, 09:39:00 PM
Several of y'all have said repeatedly to "file a claim", etc..  I don't mean to be blunt, but "It ain't gonna do any good!"  Been there, done that...pictures, statement from the driver, TV news crew...It's a waste of your time..spend the time making another bow and you'll be way ahead.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Shawn Leonard on January 04, 2007, 10:44:00 PM
Ya know what, contact your states attorney general and than contact your attorney. I have heard what the others are saying, but I had to file a claim with them concerning a broken bow and another about merchandise stolen off of my porch. I got re-imbursed, both packages were insured though. I had to do what I stated above and my attorney wrote them a nice letter and they paid. It cost me $35 to my attorney. Shawn
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Allan Hundeby on January 05, 2007, 03:24:00 AM
The only time I'll even consider using UPS, is if the item I'm buying is valued LESS THAN $20.00 CDN.  Though their "tracking" is easier, there's NO way I'll ever consentually use them again.

(And don't get me started on their horrendous cross-border brokerage fees - a.k.a. "border piracy"!)
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: John Nail on January 05, 2007, 08:59:00 AM
Florida used to have a "Consumer action reporter" on the local news channel. They loved stories like that, and usually got a lot of results. You might go that route, if your TV channels have anything like that available.
Big companies hate bad publicity.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: jmack on January 05, 2007, 09:19:00 AM
I just came upon this post, and remembered an episode from a few years back.... I had a friend whose father was the district/regional/state whatever supervisor of the UPS distribution center in Kansas. I went there with my good friend one day to get something from his pa, and got a small tour of the place while I was there. You wouldn't believe the kind of soccer and baseball games go on inside that place with the packages as the balls. I've never used UPS after seeing this, and strongly suggest that no one else use them either.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Chad Sivertsen on January 05, 2007, 10:48:00 AM
I've had quite a bit of experience with my small businesses both shipping and receiving with all the carriers. About 10 years ago I had a custom bike shop and received orders daily via UPS, most came through ok. The local drivers were great. But about the time of the big strike it seems there service went away and their attitude with it.

I have shipped hunreds of items USPS Prioriy Mail over the last couple of years and their record is perfect and the price resonable.

If you are shipping to another country USPS Global Priority Mail is an excellent service and reasonable and arrives in about a week.

Jeff, I can't imagine how they could break an osage stave like that accidently. The force required to break it would have to tremendous.

I've heard that small claims court rules in favor of the customer and not UPS most of the time.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: Bear on January 05, 2007, 11:03:00 AM
UPS seems to be loosing popularity about as fast as Walmart. I'd be happy to see them both go away.

I had friends in college who worked as holiday help at UPS. They told the same stories about "package soccer" and warned to never ship UPS.

Dont even get me started on my own experiences.
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: mike g on January 05, 2007, 11:21:00 AM
Why do think there Trucks are "BROWN"
Title: Re: ups sux w/pics
Post by: jean marc on January 06, 2007, 04:48:00 AM
Personally I never had somes problems with Us postal and Ups from Usa Towards France  only with the French post office towards the foreign country !