I built a crester the other day, and started experimenting with it..
The shafts were P.O.C. shafts that were stained..
The paint just kind of smeared on.. Not covering like I needed..
So... I put some white primer on a couple, thinking this would give it a good prine to adhere to..
It may (and I mean just maybe) worked a little better, but still looked terrible when I turned off the crester.. Just smeared and streaked..
Any idea what I'm doing wrong, going by my verbal discription..??
The paints I used were good Testors paint..
For now I'm done.. All I'm doing is making a mess out of things..
Toot
Toot, did you have a coat of clear on before cresting? also the speed of your crester is important as well. Here is what I do if staining: stain let dry, dip in polyurethane or my clear 2 coats dry between coats and steel wool lightly, then let dry and crest over that, after the crest is dry I redip in clear to cover and protect the crest. Can you tell us step by step what you did and what stains ect you are using to help out? Flint
Toot,
My first try was just like yours too, haha !!! I was pretty frustrated till I got some help. Thin the Testors with their thinner, or get you a pint of Xylene at Ace Hardware. I think I added about 10-15 drops of thinner to get it running like water. Cresting will go on nice and smooth then.
And yes, the cresting will show up much brighter and better if you are cresting over a cap dip of paint versus cresting over the stain. I cap dip 10" of white then crest with black and gold. Just make sure you let your cap dip paint dry for a few days before cresting to make sure it is COMPLETELY cured and dry. I also thin my white latex cap dip paint with lots of water so it will go on smooth. I dip twice for good coverage. Hope this helps and good luck.
nocams
Well. I did it two different ways to try and achieve success..
First was to stain with Varathane premium wood stain.. A couple coats of that and dried very well.. Put a couple coats of Poly on, steel wool #0000 inbetween. Dried and crected, or attempted to..
Second go round was with these same shafts, but put a white exterior primer on the area, and then tried the cresting..
You say the speed of the spin has alot to do with it as well.........
Well crap... L.O.L.
The little motor I'm using is from a canibalized electric fan. Two speeds, but it's cruisin' pretty good.. Infact I'll get a little bit of splatter comming off the shaft/brush area..
Hi speed low speed, same thing..
I even get the same type ugly coverage if I just try to paint by hand.. ((No motorized spinning))
I don't know..
Toot
Thin the paint........
Well that's certainly doable..
O.K.
Toot
Toot,
You got it now man, it is the paint that is causing your problem. Thin her down and you will be in business. As you gain experience you will be able to tell when your paint is thinned enough. Make sure you got a good cresting brush too. I bought one a Wally World, think it was around $7. Sounds like lots of $$$ for a little bitty brush, but you gotta buy a good one.
nocams
Don't be afraid to put paint on the brush. Load the brush up and let the paint flow. When you see the paint has covered, lift the brush
Well Toot, it is the paint then, as has been said thin it out and also as has been said do not skimp on cheap brushes.Practice, practice, practice Flint
O.K. Tomorrow is another day.. The wife goes to work. The daughters go to basketball practice, and Toot is on the loose..
I was amazed at how much these paint brushes cost.. I bought the paint and the brushes when I was at a hobby store with my dad. (he is into these radio controled airplanes)
Yeah I was surprised what the little brushes cost.. I figured I could buy 3 for a quarter..
I left the store thinking my paint brushes were also "custom built"..
Thanks, folks.. I'll keep you posted..
Toot
Toot,
Just make sure as stringstretcher said to lift the brush off the shaft as soon as you get a good coat around the shaft. If you dwell too long you will get a rough crest job. The faster you get off the shaft the better. What is happening if you stay on too long is you are tearing the paint as it is drying. I almost had the brush yanked out of my hand when I was learning to crest for the first time !!! :scared:
nocams
If your using an electric fan motor, it may be way too fast. It should be turning around 300 RPM's. Hap
Buy a pin stripping brush from an auto paint supplier. Very good brush for cresting arrows. Also, as others have said, THIN the paint to where it runs and keep plenty of paint on the brush. Mark your gresting pattern spacing with a pen or pencil and practice on an old shaft first. Don't leave the brush on the shaft too long or let it run dry of paint, or you will end up with the brush jerked out of your hand and stuck to the shaft flopping around as your frantically trying to turn off your motor. If you are only staining and not crown dipping, at least crown dip a clear coat over the stain before attempting to crest over it. Your cresting paint will cover better if you do.
I agree with Hap. If your slinging the paint the motor is to fast or the paint is to thin. Guys used to make cresting lathes from BBQ spit motors or phono graph motors and or sewing machine motors. I have one I made from an old copy machine motor.
That said the store bought cresters turn pretty fast. Some colors do not cover as well, you may have to do 2 coats. I find this to be true with areas over 1/4 in width.
Have fun, this is supposed to relax you.
Another important piece of the puzzle the straighter the shaft the better the crest. If the shaft bounces when it is being spun you can not get a even crest. Also any flat spot will create a skip. I look back at my first arrows from 20 year ago boy they are ugly but every dozen got better. I can not do Whispering Wind like stuff but I have not crested 1000's of shafts either. Practice, practice, practice.
A dimmer switch (rheostat) wired in series with the motor should allow you to get the speed you need.
Slow down the motor and try paint pens, they work great for me. :thumbsup:
I am not that good yet either, and having been working on it for over fifteen years!!!
I have never had that great a luck with Model paint. It works much better with lacquer, especially Bohing Fletch Lac - But I always use lacquer dip on the shafts as well. Even over a stained shaft.
The best results I get are using a fine tip high quality artist brush and reasonbly thin lacquer. Too thin, it runs, too thick it blobs.
The only Model Paint I do use are the gold and silver (accent pin stripes). They seem to coat well and those colors are not available in lacquers. I also find the lacquer to be harder. It will not rub off as bad on the arrow rest as the softer model paint does.
I have also found that cresting does not make the arrow shoot any better - it just makes it pretty and adds more time (and cost)!
I have been critical of my own work ever since I looked at the cresting that Susan St. Charles did at Northwest Archery in Seattle. Her work is the most beautiful I have ever seen in my life and definitely the standard to shoot for!!!
i see you used an ext grade primer. so just make sure your paints are compatible i had the same problem yesterday with a new paint color. its a model paint lacquer,i use primarily auto touch up lacquers. apparently model and auto lacquer arent compatible. it just smeared around a base of white auto paint.when it dried it cracked. try the touch-up paints,tons of colors and when i am done i just cover the crests with touch-up clear coat.
Toot,
How bout them fellow tradgangers..... Just covering you up with good tips and advice ain't they ! That is why I love this site !
I forgot to tell you when you get thru with cresting that I dip mine in two coats of Minwax Polycrylic. Again, thin it way down so it will flow like water. I dip mine in a 2" PVC pipe, then just pour it back in the can for use later on. Rinse PVC with water, done ! Make sure you let the testors cresting dry for a few days to make sure it is COMPLETELY cured. Any smearing problems are caused by getting in a hurry and not letting things cure. I use regular old minwax stain, Rustoleum acrylic enamel for cap dip thinned with water, testors thinned with Xylene for crest, and Minwax Polycrylic thinned with water for final dip, two coats. Be sure and DO NOT USE STEEL WOOL in between coats of the Polycrylic. I use 320 or 400 grit sandpaper, otherwise you will have rusty old wooden arrows, haha !!! I use these products cause they are readily available just about anywhere, cheap, and all water based. Keep us posted and stay at it.
:campfire:
nocams
Most everything you need to do is covered above, but to summarize:
Straighten your shafts...you cannot have good results when your arrows are bouncing around. This is a major part of getting a uniform crest.
Thin your paint, but not too thin... Testors always worked for me, but it is getting harder to find. I am experimenting with hobby acrylics. I am yet too see how durable they will be, but coverage is much better than I expected. Although I swear by Bohning for my crown dips, I have never liked Bohning for cresting. It tends to be too thin for me, and I don't get good coverage. Others seem to do fine with it.
Use good brushes... I bought a couple of automotive pin striping brushes from Paul Brunner years (decades?) ago, and I am still using these brushes today. I was using cheap hobby brushes and really balked at spending the money on these brushes, but they make a world of difference and last forever if you take care of them. The long bristles help maintain contact with the arrow shaft and 'smooth out' some of the imperfections created by slightly crooked shafts.
Control your crestor speed...Add a rheostat if your motor is too fast. You cannot get good coverage if you are spinning too fast, and if you are spattering paint, you are way too fast! My crestor... built from an eight track tape player in the '70s... still spins at just the right speed!
Seal your crest....If you are using Testors or acrylics, they will smear from rest contact and target penetration if you do not seal them. I use a spray acrylic and lightly spray a couple of seal coats over the crest area. Be very careful doing this with Testors! The acrylic spray will make your Testors crest run if you use heavy coats, especially if you use any metal flake. The acrylics I am playing with now don't seem to run and are giving a better than expected coverage.
Good luck and have fun! Nothing personalizes your equipment as much as your very own crest!
Toot,
You have recieved some good advice! Just stick with it and the knack will develop.
I might add a few things as well. Check to see which way the shaft is spinning. My experience shows that you can get a thinner line and better control if the shaft is spinning toward you. This means you would hold the brush UNDER the shaft to apply paint. Also make sure the shaft is well supported on the other side of where you are cresting. Like was mentioned before, it is tough to get a good line when most of the shaft is whipping around.
I use the Testors enamal paint as well. I spray on my cap dips with Testors spray enamal cans. One coat of flat white, then it only takes one coat of color (I like the "competition orange" because it matches my orange fletching). As another suggested, when I spray on my flat white, I choke up with the tape to leave the cresting area white.
I have had trouble mixing enamal and acrylic. They just don't work together for me. I have had some problems with mixing waterbased and oil or solvent based, but it seems some of these guys have worked that out (I took some notes for my own use).
I agree with the guys who think your motor may be spinning too fast. Also, hardware store dowels are cheaper than good arrow shafts for practicing on if ya want.
I am no artist by any means but have developed my skill to the point that I'm not embarresed to let buddies see my paint jobs. The deer (or other critters) don't care. Although cap dipping and cresting make arrows look good it can also be functional. Almost all the arrows I shoot now are cap dipped bright orange. I can see where my shot goes much easier. This boosts confidience in a good hit. I can also find the arrow on the ground easier after a miss or pass through. When I shoot 3-d rounds with buddies, everyone knows exactally which arrow is mine because of my personal color design.
And besides... its just real cool! Right?
Good Luck and like one of the others said, have fun. I have included a couple of pictures of some of my arrows I have done. Both woods and carbons. Not art, but at least functional.
OkKeith
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m150/OkKeith/arrows1-2-1.jpg) (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m150/OkKeith/SD530745.jpg)
OK that looks like art to me! Functional and beautiful. When you can crest like that you have nothing to be ashamed of.
okkeith,
nice arrows ! I am wanting to crown dip some yellow and crest them in black with yellow barred feathers and black nocks. I tend to use white cap dip, white nocks, and white feathers now so I can see my arrow in flight better. However, I have noticed when looking for lost arrows in the leaves or grass that Yellow shows up awful good.
I just went to the garage and checked my supplies. Please forgive my mistake, I am using Krylon Acrylic Latex Enamel, not Rustoleum. I am sure Rustoleum works fine too, but make sure it is a Acrylic Latex Enamel so you can thin with water. Key word here is Latex. I think others have used regular old latex paint and I am sure that would work, but the enamel is tougher. Sorry for the goof. :banghead:
nocams
Thin the paint and make sure you have a GOOD soft brush.
My cresting on my wood arrows is never as good as my al. or carbons. I can never get them very straight.
Remember, no matter how crappy it looks, with a little elbow grease and paint thinner, it can come off and you can start over.
I use acrylic paint. I never thin it out. I always put 2 coats on. The durability of the finish is in the clear coats. I go with acrylic poly. Dries really fast and is a durable finish.
The reason the paint is smearing because you are leaving the brush on the shaft for too long. As the shaft is spinning it is causing the paint that you applied when you first touched the shaft with the brush to dry. Air circulation is as important tp paint drying as heat is. If you slow down the rpm's the paint will dry slower. The paint is smearing and streaking because it is drying as you are applying it.
I am not the best crester out there, but I have been a professional painter for 25 years.
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z267/horatio1226/arrasfinished003.jpg)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z267/horatio1226/arrows.jpg)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z267/horatio1226/arrowsej010.jpg)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z267/horatio1226/cresting002.jpg)
Sometimes less is more
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z267/horatio1226/redandblackarrows001.jpg)
I suggest that you go out and buy some brushes. Go to craft store and buy some medium priced brushes of all different sizes and shapes. Try them. A painter is only as good as his brushes, especially in fine finish work.
Good luck and have fun!