:confused: I've seen many posts here regarding footed shafts or arrows. Forgive my ignorance, but, can anyone please describe what exactly a footed shaft is.
$75.00-$85.00 per dozen
Paul WA- - -
cute response, but hardly answers the question.
It seems that you are just as ignorant as I am.
bsigal,
Sorry for Pauls response. A footed wooden arrow is an arrow with a hard wood point end which is called a footing. They can be spliced in several ways. Either a single, two wing or four wing footing splice and several varieties of hard woods with purpleheart being the most common. Here is an example of some of my 4 wing purpleheart footed cedars:
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q28/deanvanderhorst/FootedShaftsArrows002.jpg)
When refering to carbon shafts and footing them it is in reference to using a small section of aluminum shaft over the end of the carbon to strengthen the point. Don't have any pictures there, but someone might post one.
Hope that helps. dino
Ahh! Those are gorgeous Dean!!
whoa baby!
those are fantastic!
if you dont mind me askin how do you reduce the footing material? I can never get the wings to taper to an even point like that.
Have to correct that last post. They are "my" shafts but made by Kye at Great Basin Footed Shafts in Oregon.
Nate1990,
When I make footed arrows most of the stock it reduced on a disk sander then put the shaft in a lathe that I made. The lathe would spin the shaft and reduce it round with 36 grit sand paper. As it got close I would take a cabnet scrape and reduce each wing tips out smooth. That is what I would do to keep them from breaking or chipping. Then final sanding with 50 then 80 and finally with a 120 grit paper smoothed it right out. Kye reduces his on a belt sander the runs length wise versus around. That is what keeps his wing points from chipping out. Heres pics of one I footed with african mahogony. My wings are not as long as Kye's because he uses a 6" cut and mine is a 4", but that is all preference.
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q28/deanvanderhorst/CIMG1918.jpg)
thanks dino. thats very helpful!
Dino, or others ... can you provide EFOC info for the footed purpleheart shafts? Any way you like would be helpful to my math-challenged "mind": raw footed shafts at, say, 30" compared to raw standard shafts same length (both, let's assume, are single tapered) ... or set up with equal weight heads (I mostly shoot 160s but no biggie). Fairly specific asks, I realize, but from the beginning of Dr. Ed's revelations re EFOC, it has seemed to me that the most efficient and traditional way to get a heavy shaft with lots of weight up front, not to mention lovely, would be to go with footed. But Aya! the price is high, so we want to be sure. While I empathize with Paul, who merely tried to be funny and it backfired (I do it at least weekly), I must doubt his $75-$80 a dozen for quality raw footed shafts ... I hear more like $140 per doz. Obviously, I am on the verge of ordering some, but that's a hunk of change for me and I want to be sure I won't be sorry. And now, complicating the issue, we have "Woody Weights" ... and in my dreams last night I invented lead-heavy "arrow wraps" you could wrap on just behind the head and which would simultaneously up the EFOC while strengthening the shaft at the point where it most often breaks ... plus cheap and easy. This is a good and essential topic. Thanks much, Dave
Dave, We'll chat about that Thursday! :) I love footed shafts tapered in the back. They need to be longer footed then most do and in a 4 point foot, the points opposite need to be staggered. Otherwise where the fottings end is a weak spot. I've got both purple heart and cocobolo. The cocobolo is the best from an FOC standpoint....O.L.
Dave: Sent you a PM. Footing, tapering and a 160 grain broadhead will get you about 19%FOC on a 11/32 cedar. Lengthening the foot, as OL suggests, and going with a heavier head, say 180-200 grains will add another percent or two. Drilling an unfooted shaft and inserting a 2 1/2-inch or longer piece of 3/16 inch steel rod can increase the FOC even more, and strengthen the area immediately behind the head.
Dave,
Honestly I've never calculated the foc on my footed arrows. Could do the math, just haven't :) Orion seems to be right on. The purple hearts that I have pictured above ran $90 per doz. for the raw shafts. Which considering the labor involved I don't think is too bad.
I do agree that cocobolo is a better footing material for weight. I've made some and can hardly stand the stuff. Hard on sandpaper, tools and lungs. Also like O.L. posted the weak point is transfered to the end of the wings. I shot a deer this fall with one of the footed shafts above and it broke right behind the end of the foot. The weak point was just transfered from behind the point to behind the foot. I never thought of stagering wings, but that is a good idea. Might have to work on my jig to see if I can do that.
I can wait to find out more about those "woodie weights" Spent some time talking to Bill Bonzar about them this afternoon and what he has been finding when shooting them. Plan to get some at KZoo this coming month. That will really give us some options of making heavy point weights with glue on broadheads.
Here is a few pics that was posted on Ozbow.net. This sure is some wild looking footing thats for sure, I like it!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/Longbow_lad/PB050013.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/Longbow_lad/PA220013.jpg)
Not sure if it'll be stronger or weaker but it sure looks nice.
AK.
These Texas Ebony footed shafts were done for me by Ted Fry (Raptor Archery). Dino pretty much covered the reason behind using the footing and I must say I really like the added weight and strength of the footed shaft over my other woodies.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/CLSurt/P1060039.jpg)
I use 'hunting tapered' footed shafts with a long Osage foot-made by Ted Fry at raptorarchery.com
With a 160 gn grizzly or STOS, they work out to 640 gn and 18% FOC.
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/bjornweb/DSCN0412.jpg)
PH and Wenge are heavier-slightlynmore FOC, but don't match my riser woods. :bigsmyl:
dino,
tnx for enlightening me. those shafts are gorgeous. Being new to trad archery I had never heard of footed shafts prior to the pow wow on TG
let alone seeing one.
Having shot compounds for years, Ive found that compound shooters are reluctant to pass on any information or knowledge.
Once again, trad-gangers have proven then selves to be superior in every way.
Thanks again, to dino and all the great members of trad-gang.
David ,my friend the price is actually 70.00- 85.00 per dz depending on who you buy them from. I get all mine from Rod Leary in Seattle (206-362-2882) whom has been making them a long time and 99.99% of the time sells a quality product. I hope he didnt see that $140.00 you posted or my days of hunting with footed shafts may be over...PR
Hey Paul happy newyear! bring some of those dem der foots up when you come next time ;) Been to long. Keep in touch.
I just read here - and hey! - look at that!
Okay Dino,
since nobody else did I will ask you about the barbed broadhead in your picture! Wouldn't be polite not to, right?
I already scratched my head a bit but cant identify it! First I thought of a Gus Adkins blade, pimped with a different ferrule and Bear bleeder. Then, maybe a type of Glenn Parkers Timberwolf with Intercepter blade, which I have never seen before. What is it?!?
As for the footings:
The idea is maybe as old as archery itself, but with different reasoning through the ages.
The kind seen here in this post may have evolved into perfection in Victorian England, were good target arrows were all footed. With the tiny points they used it was a way to get more FOC and better flight characteristics. But, I guess not all archers were aware of it and the fact that they were a little less likely to break behind the point and their good looks "took over". They needed more time and skill to make and were more expensive, it was only natural to assume that they should fly better then less elaborate made arrows, not?
Al, Those are staggered footings as they should be. I want footings to end about mid point of the shaft for FOC reasons.....O.L.
Falk:
The point on Dino's arrow is one his Grandfather made. It is a Gus Adkins blade with a bear razor head ferrule (bubble end) It was call a Vanderhorst Wildcat.
Neat point and very rare.
Bob
OL, so the forward half is, say Cocobolo, and the rear is cedar?
Bob, I was not to far off then :D and for sure does it look good!
And as you now gave the history of it I remembered a thread, almost a year back, explaining how the head went into Dino's hands. Your are good guy :thumbsup:
Falk
Bjorn, yes most make them out of POC I recently viewed a new site I thought I had bookmarked that the shafts were made of Tamarack which would make the shaft almost as tough as the footing...PR
Bjorn, Yes, eother POC or spruce either one would be good in the back half. Paul, how's the density of tamarack compare with spruce or POC?....O.L.
Falk,
That head is the one that Bob found for me last year. One of my prized possessions that I am ever in debt to Bob for finding it. Little piece of family history.
I've been shooting some tamarack this fall that came from Canadian coast trees. Awsome straight tight grain the entire lenght of the shaft. I haven't got any footed yet but they are definately more durable than POC or Spruce. Most durable soft wood that I have ever shot but not comparable to hardwoods Finished shafts 60-65 29" w/125 gr point were around 625 which is the same as my footed POCs. Can't wait to get some footed to see the difference between the two.
Paul, what site did you see those tamaracks on? I would like to check it out. dino
Tamarack is tougher than spruce or cedar and heavier..PR
I don't care about toughness in the back half of the shaft, the footing takes care of that. I was curious about weight for FOC reasons. The footing will take care of the tough part! :) If it's heavier, I'll stick with the POC.......O.L.
OL, That sounds like a great arrow! Is the Cocobolo 11/32? And what is a typical shaft weight prior to finishing?
And what's the FOC?
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/highcountry_photos/000_ygp2D37-1-1.jpg)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/highcountry_photos/001_ygp2D38-1.jpg)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/highcountry_photos/003_ygp2D3A-1-1.jpg)
The footing is Wenge. I like the looks of my purple heart better,
I like the sounds of this Tamarack too... anyone out there carry it in higher end spines?
AK.
I will try to get the website off another forum..PR
The weight and density of tamarack (or larch as it's called in much of the western states) depends on where it comes from in the tree. Once upon a time I owned 40 acres outside Whitefish, MT that had some big larches growing on it. They were dwarfed by the 5' dbh stumps that were on on the property. The stumps were almost head-high. The loggers (early 1900s) "high-stumped" larches because that section of the tree was so heavy that they would cause the entire log to sink when floated into Flathead Lake. They were called "deadheads." I'm told there's a company that salvages these old giants in the lake. Can't help but think there's some outstanding shaft material there. I wonder about the stumps, too. Larch is extremely decay resistant and the stumps I tested were as solid as they were 100 years ago. If the wood grain isn't wild (as it often is in stumps), that could be some super-heavy shaft material.
I know this sounds really dumb, but what does FOC stand for? :confused: :knothead:
Hardwaymike, Forward of Center(FOC). Flint
Oh ok. That is what i was thinking but had to be sure just to know I wasn't lying to myself again,lol. Thanks
Here are a couple of Ted Fry's footed shafts. Top one has Woody's point and bottom has my forged broadhead. Both intact after harvesting black bears.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/TeamTippitBroadheads0292.jpg)
Next is a carbon shaft footed with an aluminum arrow section plus another tippit forged head...hopefully to harvest a Texas hog soon ;) Doc
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/TeamTippitBroadheads011.jpg)