Hi all, a question.
Since we all as bowhunters spend a lot of time in the woods in both remote and non remote areas where it is possible to get lost, stranded, hurt etc and most all of us carry some sort of pack for our stuff, I wondered what was the fire starter of choice for those of you who are "prepared" for an emergecy situation?
I've also got a question/complaint about my recent "fire won't starter" device.... :banghead:
I love to watch the shows like Survivor Man and Man Verses Wild if only to see if I can pick out the B.S. Both shows are pretty good overall, just have to realize that there is a certain amount of "dramatization" added ala Fear Factor style.... For effect I suppose.
Anyway, for years I've seen magazine articles touting the virtues of the magnezium block and striker type starters and just a few days ago the survivor dude used one of them and it looked pretty slick. I actually bought the Coughlan's brand one from Wally World. I've seen them used on other TV shows and talked highly of in magazines so I figured "Eh, what the heck, for just under seven bucks, I'll throw one in my pack for emergencies."
Well, I tried it tonight and I'm p!$$@d! There is NO WAY to get a spark off that thing!!!!
I've scraped every knife I own on it. Stainless to high carbon. I've tried different angles, different pressures. I've used the back of the knife (like the instructions say to do). I've used the blade. I've used a sweeping motion and I've struck at it like you would a flint and steel. NO DICE. The rough grey surface of the little sparker rod imbedded in the back side of the block rubbed off in the first couple of swipes. I've tried so much that it's getting flat spotted and there are a couple good nicks where I tried the "striking" motion. This thing is a joke or I'm dumber than a block of metal.
So, end of rant.
Do any of you use one of these things? Does it work? If not, what else do you use. I'm looking for something besides matches or a lighter to carry in my hunting pack. Preferably small, light weight and reliable.
Since my mentor, friend, hunting buddy , boss showed me his flint and steel firestarting kit, I was soo impressed that I made my own and carry it all the time. I am sure that in the worst of situations I could make fire with this simple little kit. I took it on a weekend wildman hunt to see if I could indeed make fire and it worked flawlessly. I too have had the firestarter you mentioned and well it sucked! A fellow tradganger sent me the striker shown and since then I have made two other kits and given them away as gifts to pass on the generousity.
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I have a magnesium block, and it works great. I had a lot of issues until an Army buddy showed me how to use it. He shaved off quite a bit of magnesium onto some cedar bark, then using the tip of his knife(at 90 degrees to the striking rod) scraped it down onto the pile. Had a fire in about 30 seconds.
Other types are very easy to use. The steel strikers look promising. I have seen them advertised from 10-20 bucks.
One that really seems interesting to me are the "air popper" type. Forgive me, I cannot remember what they are called. They consist of a wooden piece with a hole drilled in it. A striker that resembles a turkey call striker, but the end is concave. You need a tight fit between the two pieces. Add tinder and pop it together. The force ignites the tinder. Actually, one was used on survivorman.
Hope this helps.
I use one of those magnesium strikers, but I could hardly get the magnesium powder to ignite long enough to get my kindling going. So..I also carry a film canister with a couple of vaseline soaked cottonballs. I smash the dust into the cottonball, then strike flint. When the magnesium finally catches, it ignites the gooey cottonball, and that'll give me 2 or 3 minute of flame to get my kindling going.
Its a lot of hassle just to smoke my pipe, so I also carry a zippo!
Righttrail....that looks cool as all get out. Some sort of srtiker and flint?
i carry a fire starter called light my fire it is so simple a kid could use it i aint kidding and it cost about $6 to 7 and well worth the money. it has a round flint bedded in a plastic handle and a cord holding a striker on it and it even tells ya what way to hold the striker and how to use it. bro ya cant go wrong with that one. :campfire: :campfire: . jeff
I have a separate can that I make my char cloth with and carry enough with me in the can shown to light 20 fires, I also have added a section of jute twine in the case I can't find suitable tinder, steel wool works well too. My can is deer skin lined to avoid noise, a small piece of texas flint and a good stiker are also shown. The whole thing weighs next to nothing and takes up about as much space as a turkey slate call.
I don't use those. I am into more primitive stuff. I carry a couple throw away butane lighters :D . Actually when in the Rocky Mountains I always have some home made fire starters. I make them by mixing melted paraffin wax with saw dust from my chainsaw then pouring the mixture into egg cartons. Just tear off a couple "eggs" and light them with the afore mentioned butane lighter :) .
I have messed around with it just to see if it was worth carrying. It wasn't. I got the best spark going almost parallel to the sparking surface. I just carry about 5 lighters in different spots. Each is in a snack size ziploc
Todd, now THAT is a cool fire starter kit! You say you make them? Do you smith the striker yourself? That is just......dang.....it looks "right".
You guys who have the
HEY!
While I was just sitting here I figured I'd try it again but didn't want to use my knife blade any more (I'm a bit protective of the edge) so I used the tip of the screwdriver in my multi tool.. I tried it on the side of the striker where there was still some of the roughness left and danged if the thing didn't spark! Tried the blade back, no dice. {Played around with it some more and figured out it's a "speed thing". gotta sweep real fast.
Whew! I feel better. Makes a darned hot spark too. 'Bout burned a hole in my jeans.
I have one of those magnesium/flint stater thingys and I have used it to make fire. Mine is an army surplus, I don't remember the brand name, but it looks just like the one at Wally's... You just scrape off some magnesium onto your tinder and scrape the back of fairly large knige blade down the striker side and it make a hellstorm of sparks...works pretty good, but not as good as a Bic lighter. I still keep it in my tackle box...I keep Bics around everywhere for just in case...car, fanny pack, back pack, pocket, etc.
David
Thanks Ishi and Dave for the comments, I guess I mistook the word "survival" for "primative" ha ha
I wish I could say I forged my own striker but I wouldn't know how, I made the rest of the stuff though and it only cost a few bucks. I recieved the striker from a fellow Tradganger who so generously had his wife send it out to me while he went in for surgery the next day, another fine example of the people I've met here.
anybody tired to use a butane lighter at 8-9000feet?
Mag striker's are pretyy easy to use if you get someone to show you. Love the old flint and steele deal!
Dave did you try holding your knife with the blade's cutting edge pointed towards you and at a 45 degree angle?
That's how I do it and a flick of the wrist produces sparks for me. I don't hack at it like you see the folks in survivor do. (chopping motion).
Every once in awhile I use it to start my fire in my wood stove just to keep in practice.
Lint from your clothes dryer makes an excellent tender. One spark and it is usally poof.
I always keep a magnesium striker with me in a Sucrets can full of dryer lint. Seems to work for me. Tripper
Dave, there are loads of Ferro rods available & not all are created equal ;) If you let me have your address I'll mail youone of the good ones bud :D
The other major thing that a lot of folks don't realise is that the striker is just as important as the rod itself. The carbon steel thing is a myth, any steel will work, BUT it needs to be sharp! The back of a knife is great, IF it's been flatted off to produce two very sharp, 90 degree edges. I carry a ferro rod in my pack at all times & have another built into the sheath of my bushcraft knife. Onceyou get the technique down it is 100% effective & reliable.
Incidentally, forget Survivorman & Man vs Wild! Bear Grylls is a complete fraud! He's been the topic of many debates on the UK bushcraft forums ;) Do a youtube search for Ray Mears. This guy really is 'The Man' when it comes t that kinda thing & I'm fairly sure he does an online instructional in using a ferro rod. :D
Made a quick video of how I use my fire starter. Good luck.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/pactac/th_100_1003.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/pactac/?action=view¤t=100_1003.flv)
When using the magnesium striker hold your knife at a 45 degree angle with the tip on the ground. Pull the striker across the blade fast and generate lots of sparks. This way you don't knock your tinder around. You can also shave the magnesium off at home and put into a film canister. Much faster if you need a fire now. If you practice you should be able to get a fire started in 5 to 6 seconds. Fastest I have seen was three seconds to flames.
Semper Fidelis
Dan
Hey cool video, that worked really well! Guess I'll be saving dryer lint now too!
Pac,
Thanks! Do you have anything flamable on the dryer lint besides the magnesium flakes?
I also noticed you didn't seem to scrape off a bunch of magnesium like they say to do. Heck, the flakes weren't even touching or piled together.
Thats a great example on the video! But let's see the wifes dinner plate, the wife's counter top, smoke in the house (wifes house) I would be snuggled up by a fire in the back yard for a week at least if I tried that!
Just dryer lint and the magnisium shavings.
I usually hold the fire starter closer but didn't want to break my wife's saucer. You can also see me change my grip. The first grip is how I usually hold it but I was afraid I would break the sauser so i had to adjust.
QuoteOriginally posted by adeeden:
Thats a great example on the video! But let's see the wifes dinner plate, the wife's counter top, smoke in the house (wifes house) I would be snuggled up by a fire in the back yard for a week at least if I tried that!
No problems, the wife was filming. I made sure she was part of the production and couldn't get mad at me. :readit:
i second everything rob said ! check you tube for Ray Mears there is no one else that even comes close to his skill and knowledge. i carry a Robtattoo bushcraft knife that has a fire steel, then i have another fire steel in my pack along with several bic lighters.
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/tradtusker/IVY_20081105_0472.jpg)
another cool trick is to take cotton wool and rub Vaseline into it thoroughly. you can get it going with one strike of the fire steel and it burns incredibly and for a good amount of time, i really encourage you to try it if you have never heard this method will will be impressed! i store it in an old film canister.
Guess I do it the old fashioned way. I just carry some strike anywhere matches in a waterproof container. Also throw in a butane lighter. (Never had problems with the lighter at high altitude, but did in very wet weather.) Usually also have a short piece of candle and a small piece of fire starter material as well or my own vaseline soaked cotton balls.
Instead of the film canister I use a old chap stick container of cotton balls with vasoline on them. Keep it in my pocket all the time and have even used it on chaped lips and cracks on hands.
A boyscout starter is small and a rubberband around it holds it to the container.
i like the idea of putting it in a Chapstick container i going to do that :thumbsup: Thanks Tim
also as Jerry Mentioned A small candle is very handy to have.
another thing i found in my pack is a piece of bicycle inner tube it burns very well and is never effected no matter how wet it is its water proof so just wipe it dry and light it.
I was told by a mtn lion hunter to carry a couple of road flares inside of a zip-loc bag in my cat pack just in case we needed to stayout or just to warm up/ dryout while on the chase. Not real practical for other hunting, but it is instant fire.
Dave,
If you are interested in using a striker & flint, check out the big auction site. Search fire starter, or fire striker.
There are a lot of strikers being sold on there, some are actual roman legion fire strikers, (authentic,yes, they were in use then. guess it must be a reliable system!) some are reproductions, But they do work. You'll just have to find your own flint source. I use to use the leftovers from my flintlock days, till they became to small to hold. When they ran out I switched to ferro rods and bics.
My only suggestion is practice with whatever you choose till you can produce a hot enough flame in under 30 seconds consistantly to build your fire from. Better to wear out flints learning when your life doesn't depend on it, than to wear one out when your life does depend on it! :thumbsup: :campfire:
Hal
I carry a magnesium striker, lighter, and survival matches. And a bag full of pitch wood firestarter. I'm not taking any chances so I always over do it with the survival end of my kit.
Flint, striker, charcloth, tow & small bit of beeswax candle in a small tin.
Dave,
Try using a piece of hacksaw blade for your striker, I think you will be very pleased.
In actual situations where you really need to get a fire started now...its hard to beat a road flare...works even in the rain and when you are cold and shaking so hard its hard to keep everything together.
Bob
i learnt tradtuskers bike tube trick on a sika deer hunt in new zealand. kiwi hunters always carry the stuff. you just need matches or a lighter though. like someone said, i don't know how lighters go at high altitude.
I carry a couple flint/steel strikers, some char cloth and cotton balls. But, if I need a fire right now, without screwing around, road flare gets the nod. i keep 1 small one in my pack. They will light in anything, and burn hot enough to get damp tinder and kindling going fast.
I make my own fire by friction kits (bow and spindle also known as the bow drill) and I have used dryer lint, cotton balls, cedar bark, and many other things. But the one thing that will catch easily everytime at a low temp is brown oakum. You can buy a bag for a couple dollars at any hardware store. It will be in the plumbing section.
I too am a fan of the cotton balls soaked in Vaseline. Learned this one from a Military Arctic Indoctrination Instructor in Alaska. They work even in the rain/drizzle. Carry a small lighter and a film cannister full of these. I also carry a film cannister full of waterproof matches. This works much better/faster than that magneseum block in my opinion.
Ishiwanabe, I think the firestarter you're referring to is called a Fire Piston.
Yup, google "Fire Piston"
Right now all I carry are some water proof matches. I realized this fall I need to update my first aid survival supplies, they are getting pretty slim.
Try 0000 steel wool and a 9 volt battery. ( the little square ones that go in transistor radios)Just touch both battery terminals at the same time to the steel wool and instant HOT fire.
The biggest problem is remembering to have a fresh battery or two before you leave for the woods.
John
I don't have problems with my magnesium lighter but it takes a lot of magnesium to work properly. I don't see the point of it, really, when I can carry some cotton balls and a metal match--doesn't get much lighter and compact than that.
I do carry a bic lighter but they suck when hands are cold. I figure I'll cut one in half over a pile of sticks and light it with the metal match...next best thing to a flare.
Pac and Two Sheds have it right. Dryer lint and a mag starter works every time.
But you mentioned a VERY good point!!! Don't go out in the woods unless you have tested and know how to use ALL of your equipment!
I once asked my Mohawk Grandfather if he knew how to start a fire with two sticks. His answer, "Yep, just make sure one's a match!"
Wooden matches and a striker can be carried in the black Kodak film canisters, with the gray lids. Waterproof and easy to carry.
In fact, in my waist/bum pack survival kit (always worn in the woods, even for a short hike - fog can get you lost fast...I know) I have 4 of these canisters with fishing gear(lures inside, line wrapped around the outside and electrical taped in placed), medications, matches, water purifier tablets (doubles as fire starter).
That is it Rick, thanks. I was having a brain fart...
Yep, a primitive cigarette lighter. A survival situation is no place to find out you can't start a fire with a flint and steel, or by rubbing two Boy Scouts together.
if you're on a primitive campout, or in a contest,fine. if your life depends on it, I'll take modern technology, in the form of a lighter and matches every time.
Should mention, too, that a butane lighter will work at high altitude, but you have to keep it warm. I prefer a Zippo.
JMHO
Yep, a primitive cigarette lighter. A survival situation is no place to find out you can't start a fire with a flint and steel, or by rubbing two Boy Scouts together.
if you're on a primitive campout, or in a contest,fine. if your life depends on it, I'll take modern technology, in the form of a lighter and matches every time.
JMHO
I carry a little stove found at the army surplus store for $5...comes with 8 combustible blocks that start easy and every time with lighter or matches. Each block burns for about 10 mins. which gives plenty of time if you need to build a bigger fire.
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TBM Tip of The Week
December 30, 2008
Homemade Emergency Fire Starters
When hunting in the backcountry of Colorado, often times you get
caught in a rain shower, and need to dry off or if you're lost,
need to start a fire even when all you have to work with is damp or
wet wood.
I started making these about 10 years ago, and have found them to
be very effective at starting a fire. Simply collect empty egg
cartons and fill each compartment with wood shavings or sawdust and
then melt some canning wax, or recycle an old candle by melting it
down in an old pot or tea kettle (I found mine at Goodwill).
Pour melted wax into each compartment until full, let cool and tear
or cut off each compartment to make individual fire starters. Just
light the side of the fire starter, no need for a wick. We have
timed how long one of these burns without any added fuel, and it
burned very hot for 30 minutes! The flames were about 12" tall.
Sammy Smallwood
This tip comes from a newsletter reader. If you have an interesting
tip you think we could use, please send it to
webmaster@tradbow.com.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/smallwood1972/100_5835.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/smallwood1972/100_5836.jpg)
12" flames are definitely hot enough to dry wet wood out and get a fire going!
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/smallwood1972/100_5837-1.jpg)
Esbit stove closed up.....blocks store inside stove.
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr250/TBarker1960/esbit.jpg)
I take a windproof lighter, flint/magnesium, and some vaselined cotton balls along with paracord etc. I got turned around this year and was fine with it knowing that I had everything I needed to spend the night without freezing to death etc. I ended up not having to use it but it was a nice test to see I wouldn't panic etc.
Smallwood, I just received this info. in an email from TBM. I think I will give this a try! I like the length and height of burn on this fuel. I Oregon it can be a real challenge to start a fire! :rolleyes:
I've done the egg carton thing and the cotton balls for years. Both work excellent. The egg carton is better if you are going to be dealing with damp wood in my opinion.
Sterno in a 35mm file can is nice to have along also or take cotton balls and rub Sterno all over them.
I gave up on thosae magnesium block deals years ago when I needed a fire and it wouldn't work.. I now carry a Bic lighter or two, and a BlastMatch. I also carry some hurricane matches.. And a small can of lighter fluid.
Some guys around here also carry some fine magnesium type dust that is made by CadWeld. A spark will ignite it, and it comes in small plastic canisters of various sizes..
A hunting buddy of mine carries some fire starter stuff that I believe he got at Cabelas..
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/39/45/i513945sq01.jpg)
Saw a lot of interesting ways too start a fire in this thread, and I'm sure they all work when dry and out of the wind. I would suggest you all go outside in your back yard in a down pore and howling wind, wait until your almost in a state of hypothermia and try starting your fire withthe method you have selected. It makes a huge difference when your not sitting in your warm kitchen and not shaking so bad you can't put your hands together and all you char cloth and dryer lint is sopping wet. You know its impossible to control what the conditions are going to be when you get hurt or lost and can't get back to camp or your car. The fire must be started quickly in any conditions. As far as I'm concerned there is only one method guaranteed of an instant hot long lasting fire. That is a Road Flare. A standard flare lasts 15 minutes and burns brutally hot will ignite the wettest tinder and wood. I've even taken one and cut it in half. using a sharp knife cut through the paper, then break in half. Hollow out about a 1/2" of the bottom put a wax impregnated cardboard plug and role the paper tube over like the factory did then fill the cavity with melted wax. That flare is only about 5" long and 3/4" in dia. I also carry vasoline soaked cotton balls for times when there is no water and wind.
Bob
Sounds like artic survival school at Fairbanks. That's where I learned to use the flint to start a fire.
The thread originated to find out how you make one of the flint/ magnesium sticks work. That's what I did.
Do I carry matches in my pack? You bet I do. I know how hard it can be to get a fire with flint when you are in -20 weather even if there is no wind or rain.
By all means carry a superior way of making fire but a backup is nice.
Never messed with road flares. What keeps them from going off in your pack?
This is a popular topic that got a lot of input. What I do has been covered:
The magneium fire starter works great. I cut a 4" piece off an old hacksaw blade and grind the teeth down to a flat, square edge. I tie the balde section to the mag block with a piece of cord. The whole thing goes into a zip-lock bag with about 10 cotton balls with Vaseline in the center. You are on your own for kindling and fule, but this method will start a good fire at any temperature or weather.
Be prepared. There are a lot of good ideas here. And they were obviously sent by folks who have lived through it!
Other survival topics like water, food and shelter would probably be interesting as well.
I have a mag. block and haven't ever been able to get it to work. I just soak cotton balls in wax and carry a lighter. It's cheating I know but, saving my butt is worth it...lol
I usually pack a flare with me for real emergancies. When you bust threw the ice a 20 below and get drenched and can't get your fingers to work well you can still pop that flare off. Otherwise just a couple of disposable lighters.
I forgot to mention that the hacksaw blade is a good carbon steel and if the edge is square and sharp and you scratch at 90 degrees to the flint; I guarantee you can get a shower of sparks. If you have shaved a good little pile of the magnesium into your tinder, it will ignite into a good flame.
Delsnavely,
If you can find your block, give it another try. The two things I was doing wrong were:
1. Not swiping fast enough. Ya really gotta flick the striker quickly. Think of the speed on a flintlock hammer.
2. The edge of whatever you are using has to be sharp. I don't mean sharp like a knife, but "crisply squared off". Of course the cutting side of a blade works but I couldn't hardly bring myself to do that to my knife. Once I got it to work with the scredriver tip, I caught on to the whole principle. I tried a squared but not rolled cabinet scraper that had a real crisp edge, WOW! Good sparks. Ya may have to play with the angle a bit too. Watch the video on an earlier page of this thread.
For a waterproof container you can slide and empty 16 gauge shot shell into a 12 gauge shot shell. Can't remember where I heard that.
Nice idea with the egg carton Sammy :thumbsup:
As others have alluded to already, with something like fire you always need to think in terms of 3's in that you need 3 ways to get the job done. Nothing beats a simple Bic lighter and, like others, I always carry two of these along with those compressed wood fiber/parrafin soaked sticks you can buy at Walmart. In addition to this I carry some cut up inner tube material just in case because it burns great wet or dry. I also carry some water proof matches AND I carry at least one road flare. A road flare is just a must because when the weather turns bad (wet) and you really need a fire fast nothing beats have 2900 degrees of heat at your disposal. Plus, a road flare is simply a well known wilderness survival "must carry" item. So, if you keep to the rule of having 3 ways to start a fire, and keep those simple, you can always stay warm when you need to.
flint and steel.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/adkmountainken/knives/yup004.jpg)
I purchased some of those military trioxane bars ive lit them easily with lighter and matches and a magnesium striker with or without the magnesium all worked well and the little trioxane bars come in little packs you can then break the bar off in three smaller pieces they burn i think right around 5-7 minutes. i also flintlock hunt traditionally in pa. so i to have the flint and steel with char cloth this can work well to especially if you find a fallen popular tree branch and get the bark just when it starts falling off on its own take strips of it and roll and cruch it up in your hands till it fluffs up like a bird nest once you ctach a spark on your char your can have fire in 10 seconds. cedar tree bark works well to. and flax and actually a whole number of things. but when im a little off the traditional path i like military issued stuff the best i figure if they make it for our boys it must be the best.
I got this for Christmas. Sold by Duluth Trading
Works great. I tried it just using a kleenex it starts a fire immediately. I do want a fire piston though.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/doublelung/Main-Pic-SL3-2.jpg)
Magnesium Striker and some wool for me.
You know, after thinking about this I remember steel wool. Most of us already carry flashlights, a battery and some steel wool make fire FAST. Maybe a small piece of insulated conductive wire would help. Either way, very light weight.
I think the primitive flint and steel idea is cool as heck, but I carry lots of butane lighters for real-life situations. I usually also have some sort of wax/sawdust product to use as tinder starter.
I make a fire often when hunting, sometimes just to see if I can. I try and scrounge natural materials on snowy or rainy days and just do it for the practice.
My wife and I were stuck once on a broken down snowmobile in Northern Michigan and it was cold as heck. It wasn't life threatening, because my buddy was with us, and went to get a truck to haul the broken down sled with....but we had to wait about 2 hours. I had a small package of wooden matches. I assembled lots of dry birch and pine, and then took a piece of fabric (from a small cloth tool bag, I think) and soaked it in gas from the tank. I had a ROARING fire in just a few minutes. When My buddy got back he laughed at us, we appeared so comfortable.
When it's the "real deal", I'm not going to screw around trying to be primitive! :bigsmyl:
Ishawnnabe, the only problem with that is most of the flashlights we carry have AA ,C ,D batteries ive tried those and they can be a bear to start a fire with the 9 volt battery works the best and is amazingly fast. it works best with oily very fine0000 steelwool. it only takes a light rubbing motion on the steel wool. I think ive tried starting a fire just about everyway, but th eone i still cant do til this day is get one started with stick and bow i can get the smoke but have never produced the fire. i once camped with a guy named Keith hopler he was an avid outdoors guy an vietnam vet he was awesome at this method .he could walk into anywoods and have a fire with a stik and bow made from that woods in a half an hour
I carry the Boy Scout magnesium/steel, dryer lint(in sm bagie),5-6 4" pieces of fat pine, canister of pine resin chunks, all in a double ziplock baggie.
Groundpounder, it can be tricky, that is for sure.
9v are by far the best, but I always end up lighting up my pack...lol.
As for the bow method, do you have a notch in your base board to gather the hot dust? I have never tried it but I did research it alot a while ago. Good luck with that, I should be making one up and trying to...interesting stuff.
:D I carry drier lint, trioxene bars, vasoline cotton balls, magnesium bar , match safes, and butane liters.
My grandson Kaleb and I were camping in Roosevelt state park back during the summer. The rangers were giving demonstrations on firestarting and he was using a magnesium bar. he was using a swiss army knife to ignite the magnesium flakes and it was putting out a weak spark at best. I tried my hand at it with my gerber multitool. the sparks startled the ranger. I think the metal might have something to do with it. just my $.02.
Butane lighters are fine in dry conditions, but are as useless as an ashtray on a motorcycle if they get damp. I carry stick matches, a magnesium/flint setup and use my leatherman for a stiker instead of my good knife. Then for the urgent needs, a road flare or two.
This spring I'm planning a fishing/camping/outdoor skills weekend for me an the boys. There is an island on Sginaw Bay I just learned is public land, isolated, has good fishing. We are going to camp and fish, and I can spend some time with the boys honing their wilderness emergency skills such as fire making, shelter, food and water etc. Should be fun, as long as the fish are biting, although if we time it right we should be able to get plenty of carp shooting in too.
I have always had great success with the magnesium fire starter. Maybe it does have something to do with the metal of your blade, not sure. I carry one on my keychain, and I ALWAYS have two pocket knives on me. One 4" Benchmade locking folder and a small Buck three blade pocket knife. I use one of the smaller blades (always the same one, leaving the other two sharp) for use on the fire starter. I put down a little pile of tinder and rest the magnesium block on it while I scrape the shavings onto it(I don't usually have to shave a whole lot off-just a little pile), then reverse it and lay the flint side on it and strike. Works like a charm. I have a stockpile of them I like 'em so much.
bic lighter
Flint & Steel
Magnifying glass
when i was 16 decided i wanted to make a fire with the bow drill(fire by friction) and with what little information i could find it took me 3 months of changing different woods and stiles etc until i could do it, it takes some real work in soggy England where i was and would defiantly not depend upon it for fire, but its cool to know how.
Link or copy and paste to the set I use. I make my own char-cloth very easy to do. If you hunt with a flintlock just make sure the weapon is empty, place the char-cloth in the pan, close the frizzen, cock the hammer and squeeze the trigger, tons of sparks.
http://www.wildersol.com/FlintSteel.html
The vaseline soaked cotton ball works great with just the flint side of the magnesium fire starter, didn't even need to scrape any magnesium onto it. Hit it with the flint and *poof*-instant flame.
This thread has really got me thinking.I always carry a small container of the cotton balls soaked in Vaseline and a waterproof container full of matches in my hunting pack.The other day I decided to try starting a fire.The matches that I have are "strike on box". I tried everything except the box to try to light them but never did get them to light.I even tried sandpaper.They are pretty much useless.So I dug out my old Wallyworld magnesium/flint starter,shaved off a few pieces of the magnesium and hit the flint side with
a jigsaw blade and the cottonball started right up.The cottonball burned for 9 minutes and that should be plenty of time to get some kindling started.
After doing a little research, I did order a new Swedish fire steel.
http://lightmyfireusa.com/firesteel.html
When my dad and i hunted maine we carried seperate "survival packs" which were small camera bags with gear.Our fire starters were bics,strike anywhere matches dipped in parifin & 1" cotton rope soaked in parifin.
All of this is great. I have tried the bow drill and like it 30 sec's max and I have a ember. The drill is matched to the board so getting an ember is easy. With the magnesium I found that the amount of sparks is dependant on the striker material. But according to the instructions that came with the Magnesium bar it said to build a pile of shavings about the size of a nickle(cone shaped) or quarter. They are talking about the base size of the shavings. This I found takes time, also if there is a breeze there goes your shavings. So when I have idle time I scrape piles of the nickle to quarter size and pour this into a stretched out cotten ball, close it over and load the ball up with vasoline. You can get four or five of these into a film canister. When this ball gets a shower of sparks (2 strokes form magnesium) the ball will shoot 4-5 inches of intense magnesium flame, after that the cotten just acts as wick for the vasoline. But, by far the best is a the road flare hands down. The steel wool is another easy starter. It doesn't take much of a spark. But I like to compress the steel wool by twisting it to fit into a film canister. I have passed fire starting methods onto boy scouts for the last 3 years. The egg carton was a different twist from candles though. The 9v and 6v batteries will work but you have to have the right size steel wool for this to be effective. I have since 2001 when I went to a Archery Expo, take one more additional item. It's a butane hobbist torch. About the size of a magic marker. It doesn't last forever but while it's going it'll burn anything in nature. The fire piston I haven't treid as yet. I do have one item of firemaking that I haven't gotten down yet and that is rubbing two bamboo halves. I tried it 10 times over two days and only got a ember once. That was on the secound day. I can get smoke but haven't figured the ember. Saw dust, shavings, lint, kleenex, grass haven't gotten to work with this process yet. Still its a work in progress. Of course any kind of shotshell will work for the powder inside. If used I would only use one shell at a time till I found out how big a flare up you will get from using just one.
I don't have experience with primitive ignition techniques such as hand drills or bow drills, but I have tried quite a few other ignition devices under a variety of conditions. Aside from various types of matches, lighters, magnesium sticks, and ferro-rods, I've used batteries & steel wool, jumper cables & car batteries, magnifying glass, & even a broken glass bottle to ignite tinder. In ideal conditions, pretty much all of these methods should work very well. However, they may be long shots at best under dire conditions such as you (or the ignition device) being soaked, or if you are shivering so severely that you have or virtually no manual dexterity, or very cold temperature making the device useless.
There are 3 types of ignition devices, that I always bring with me, which include wood strike-anywhere matches, a butane lighter/torch, and a few ferro-rods. All 3 have their benefits, but a good ferro-rod is the only one of them that I have found absolutely reliable, whether wet or dry & regardless of the outside temperature. It is also the easiest to use if your dexterity is compromised.
A) Lighters;
Lighters tend to be the most convenient to use, but the least reliable of the 3. I keep a butane lighter in my pants pocket at all times. I'll have at least another Bic lighter in my coat pocket and/or in my daypack. The one in my pocket will usually be a refillable isobutane piezoelectric torch lighter like this one;
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d147/alphawolf_/lighters_hiker_brown.jpg)
I like the torch because it is somewhat wind resistant, and is also useful for things such as gear repairs. The torch lighters do tend to be more flaky than a Bic lighter however. In cold temperatures butane lighters must be kept in an interior pocket, close to your body for them to work.
Matches;
I keep several wood strike-anywhere matches contained in a metal waterproof container within my daypack survival kit. DRY matches are more reliable than butane lighters, but are less convenient than lighters and require relatively good manual dexterity to use. Wood matches that are already waterproof, or water & windproof need the special stiker surfaces that come with their box. For this reason I, don't bother with these types of matches - trying to keep a piece of that fragile striker surface with the matches is not (IMO) paractical. I do not recommend trying to waterproof strike-anywhere matches by dipping them in paraffin wax or nail polish, because they may not longer strike as easily, if at all.
C) Ferro-Rod
This is one of those things that nobody should ever enter the woods without (right up there with a good knife, compass, map & survival kits). I keep one both in my personal survival kit and in my daypack survival kit. As was mentioned in an earlier post, not all ferro steels are created equal. My favorite is the one made by Primus.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d147/alphawolf_/5003164_v1_m56577569830536154.jpg)
It is not too bulky, but big enough to keep squeezed between the thumb and index finger of an nearly numb hand. If one hand were non-functional due to injury, I could step on it's handle or even hold it in my teeth. When firmly scraped wiwith a good steel edge, the ferro-rod will send a shower of sparks that will easily ignite good suitable tinder such as thin birch bark, tissue paper, lint, and vaseline soaked cotton balls (my favorite).
While there is no shortage of natural tinder (birch bark in particular) where I hunt, I prefer to keep tinder with me in both my personal survival kit and my daypack survival kit, as well as coat pockets, lifejacket pockets etc.. What I do is take a cotton ball, rub vaseline into it, squeeze out the excess, then stuff it into the bottom of a plastic bottle cap. I then melt beeswax into the cotton ball until the wax is level with the rim of the bottle cap. Prior to stuffing the cotton ball into the bottle cap, I run a loop of fishing line throught the cotton ball, so that I can pull the cotton ball out of the bottle cap, even while wearing bulky mittens.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d147/alphawolf_/P1010059.jpg)
Once the cotton ball is pulled out of the bottle cap, pull the cotton into a fine mesh and hit it with a spark. It will burn a very hot, with a fairly wind resistant flame for an amazingly long time for such a tiny item. Even at -30, it will burn for at least 10 minutes. Because of the the wax plug over the bottle cap, you can immerse this in water, remove, shake it off, pull the cotton ball out and it is ready to go. Use just enough vaselingne that you can saturate the cotton ball, but be sure to squeeze out the excess vaseline, because you want to be able to fit as much beeswax into that bottlecap as possible. The long burn time is because of the wax. The cotton ignites from the spark, the vaseline readily burns from there and burns long enought to get the wax melting and wicking up the cotton.
this has been my companion for years. I use kitchen "strike anywhere" matches covered in melted candle wax. The compass on mine is good quality.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/johnnail/AAAAAmHl3-gAAAAAAD_Fqg.jpg)
John,
Is that a K & M match case (http://www.kmmatchcase.com/matchcasesaboutuskm-matchcase.html) ? I've read that they are a great product.
one of them magnesium flint fire starters is always in my pack. Leave one in the car and my backpack as well. hope i never have to use it for real, but i have started many fires with friends for show.
All the little film canisters and magnesium starters sound romantic and all and great if you live in Texas! Now just imagine yourself going through the ice with your snowshoes on and after getting out your going to try and play with all those little gizmos. Your shaking way worse than your first big buck shot and hypothermia is setting in. A highway flare in your pack is the best and fastest option going. Most come waterproofed but I also have vacuum sealed them as an option. No matter how hard it is raining you have the instant heat to start a fire and 20 minutes of burn time to do so.
where can you get highway flares?
I don't live or hunt in Texas, but do know that it takes very little dexterity to use a ferro-rod - nothing romantic about it, it just plain works. Hopefully, all of you carry a personal survival kit, which stays on your person at all times, whether or not you are wearing a daypack, as well as a more extensive kit that you keep in your daypack. There are many scenarios where you can be separated from your daypack.
A ferro-rod and the cotton/vaseline/wax stuffed bottle cap are tiny and should be carried on you person at all times. A fusee is fine in a daypack, but would probably be awkward to always have it on your person.
Here is a link to 3 videos every outdoorsman should watch. The second one shows making a fire after cold water immersion.
http://www.yukonman.com/cold_water.asp
I'm making a fire piston right now! How interesting that this topic has come up!
There's an awesome build-your-own tutorial in Wiki that walks you through making one out of an old AA maglite. It stays water tight and you can store char cloth in the head. I'll post pictures when I'm done. Just finished the char cloth tonight! Cool stuff! :saywhat:
The spark-lite is a nice little kit.
Nice demo on You-Tube
FlatbowMB,
That was a great link! I watched all three videos and I was really suprised at all the good info. That guy is kinda crazy to do what he does but there is no arguing with his personal experience.
Hi Dave,
I did some course work with this guy (he was working on his PhD while I was doing my MSc.) I've seen some of his cold water immersion experiments first hand and they are pretty wild. He will do any experiment on himself first before asking for volunteers to do the same procdure.
He has also co-written this excellent book that anyone who ventures out in cool or cold weather should read thoroughly:
Hypothermia, Frostbite and Other Cold Injuries (http://www.amazon.com/Hypothermia-Frostbite-Other-Cold-Injuries/dp/0898868920)
What a great read. Bump to the top :thumbsup:
TJ,
Thanks for bumping this up!
snakeeater
I like hte flint deal - but I use a magnesium one - never had much problem with it as long as I remember to pick up kindling and keep some in a dry place!!
J
Don`t know if any of you fellas have ever heard about butane lighters in real cold weather but
they have been known to blow up.Don`t know why,just seen it in news reports several years ago.Flint and steel are hard to beat
I carry Flint & Steel, as well as waterproof matches in a waterproof container. I also carry a small "church' candle for keep a flame lit and firestarter.
You are going to laugh at me but if you want a good fire started get a small bag of Wise potato chips. Light one of those chips up and they will burn for a long time.
I carry a fire piston. Very easy to use...works like a charm.
Magnesium block in my pack. Not to necessary around here but I did like knowing it was handy in Colorado.
Wollelybugger corn chips burn excellently too!