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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Bear Heart on December 29, 2008, 07:07:00 PM

Title: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on December 29, 2008, 07:07:00 PM
A couple of spots that look like tiny bubbles have shown up under the clear glass on my TD limbs.  Is it anything to worry about? (http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn225/barnardtimothy/100_2855-1.jpg) (http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn225/barnardtimothy/100_2862-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on December 29, 2008, 09:26:00 PM
ttt
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on December 30, 2008, 11:42:00 AM
Anyone?
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Doc Nock on December 30, 2008, 11:45:00 AM
Bowdoc and some others would be good to ask. As would the bowyer. Even bows bought "used" most good bowyers are happy to offer input to such questions.

I've been told about "air pockets" along the edge of a lam...but it sounds like yours is more in the middle...

I have thoughts, but they're SWAG so I'll keep them to myself!  :)  

I'd contact the bowmaker..see what they tell you.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Walt Francis on December 30, 2008, 12:17:00 PM
Be careful, I wouldn't shoot the bow until a knowledgeable person checks it out!  I had air bubbles appear under the glass on the belly side of the top limb of a longbow, it delaminated.  When the wood and glass delaminated the glass went into my hand, through the web between my thumb and pointer finger, and stopped at the meaty part of the palm below the little finger.  I was extremely lucky that none of the tendons in the hand were severed.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on December 30, 2008, 12:27:00 PM
It's on the back of the bow.  One towards the middle.  some longer and narrow ones closer to the edge.  All are pretty small with the biggest about 1/8"
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Rick Perry on December 30, 2008, 12:34:00 PM
are they really bubbles or just white streaks in the glass ????
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: KELLEY40 on December 30, 2008, 01:04:00 PM
Are they on the top and bottom limb?
If so could it be from a quiver?
I have a longbow i bought here that had a few marks on it and the bowyer thought it was from a quiver away from the fade outs a little to far.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Holm-Made on December 30, 2008, 01:19:00 PM
Did they just appear or were they always there?  If they just appeared then you have a problem.  I

If they were there since glue up I wouldn't worry about it.  I'm sure there are a lot of colored glass bows out there with the same problem and nobody knows about it and it isn't a problem.

This is why bows with clear glass cost more then colored glass.  The glass doesn't cost anymore but you run the risk of having a blem under the clear glass which no one wants and you end up eating that bow as a bowyer.  

As Rick said, are you sure it isn't just a cosmetic blem in the glass and not under the glass?  Chad
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on December 30, 2008, 01:28:00 PM
Could also be under the finish, not under the glass.

Bets bet is to have a bowyer, preferably the bowyer that built it, have a look.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on December 30, 2008, 01:32:00 PM
They showed up the first week I had the bow.  I have shot it for a couple of months since with no problems.  I would have asked the bowyer first but I don't really trust him.  He just happens to make a bow that shoots best for me.  I will try and take some pics later today.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Overspined on December 30, 2008, 08:51:00 PM
bubbles must have already been there. sometimes under clear glass tiny bubbles form during the curing process, and don't affect anything. particular woods seem to have more of an issue with it, maybe because it just shows up easier. really dark woods in particular can show them. I wouldn't worry about them. if it is something worse, your bow should break within the warranty period!!!lol
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: LKH on December 31, 2008, 08:48:00 PM
Wear a leather glove on your bow hand.  They were probably generated by too much heat during the layup process.  They are not a good sign.  Mark their edges w/marker and see if they grow.  If they do, its probably just a matter of time before it delaminates.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: d. ward on December 31, 2008, 09:10:00 PM
Bh you got a couple pics you could load up maybe ??? bowdoc
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Jason Jelinek on January 01, 2009, 12:21:00 AM
I agree, I've had bows that a few bubbles (big ones like 1/4" diameter) under the glass from the day they were made (my bows) and they've held up for over 6 years so far.  If they just appeared, it might be worriesome.

Jason
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on January 01, 2009, 04:31:00 AM
Too much going on with the last day of hunting and New years today tomorrow I will take some pics.  Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Apex Predator on January 01, 2009, 05:46:00 AM
Lot's of times you just notice them later.  I take any new bow into some really good direct sunlight and do a tip to tip inspection.  Note any blemishes, and you will find them in the right light.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Dick4bows on January 01, 2009, 11:52:00 AM
Bubbles under the glass are a sign of poor prep or too much pressure during glue up.  If they appeared after shooting the bow, it's a real problem.  I would return the bow to the bowyer.
                          Dick
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on January 01, 2009, 01:10:00 PM
Added pictures on page one
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on January 01, 2009, 06:12:00 PM
So, should I send it back?
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: d. ward on January 01, 2009, 06:19:00 PM
Oh yeah I would return it asap.That is seperation in the layers of the fiberglass.That is not an air bubble or any problem with the finish but a very small blemish in the fiberglass.No repair for that one.bd
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on January 01, 2009, 06:29:00 PM
Not Cool at all.  Thanks Bowdoc
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Overspined on January 04, 2009, 01:25:00 PM
Yeah, after the pics, if they appeared after you got it...not good
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: CaptJack on January 04, 2009, 01:47:00 PM
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Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: d. ward on January 05, 2009, 12:38:00 PM
BH sorry for not getting back to you sooner.Here's a pic of another clear glass bow I have in my shop.Those are seperations in the clear fiberglass.The clear has not debonded from the corewood but rather is seperations in the clear glass itself(defective).At some point the clear will fail right there sooner or later.If you can I would return the bow.Problem with the one I have hear sent for repairs ? The bowyer will not step up to the plate and make good.The bow is less then 5 months old and was shot 6 times before the delamination in the glass happend.
If I were the owner of the bow in my shop you better believe I would have already posted the bow builders name all over the net.However this is my customers 3rd and final bow from that bowyer.He will never purchase from them again.To bad they lost a really good customer too.bowdoc (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/eds001.jpg)
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Hogtamer on January 05, 2009, 02:14:00 PM
Tim, I'd send them back now and hope to get new ones in time for next season...good luck and the best to you and your family.  I do keep up with ya'll from your wife's blog
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on January 05, 2009, 02:57:00 PM
I called him and his wife said he was out taking care of animals and would call me back in a day or two.  What the explitive. It has been four days and nothing giving another call today before I start dropping names.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: d. ward on January 05, 2009, 03:20:00 PM
BH 4 days is getting there for feeding critters huh ? If I were you I would be on the phone pretty soon.I'am almost thinking there may be some legal action that could be taken againest some of these wantabe's.If you purchased an item that was defective workmanship or materials from wal mart they damn sure will replace or refund your dough.I advised my customer to take legal action.If nothing else maybe we should be posting these guy's names and just put a stop to their shoty workmanship once and for all.Even if we do have to drive them out of business.Sounds a little harsh but man my customer works pretty darn hard for his 8.50 an hour and certinly does not deserve that type treatment.keep me posted what you find out...bowdoc
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: CaptJack on January 05, 2009, 03:44:00 PM
...
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on January 05, 2009, 07:12:00 PM
I think there has been some confusion.  This is not a Quinn bow.  Please do not reflect anything bad on David Quinn.

This Bow is a SOVEREIGN BALLISTIK.  The best shooting bow I have ever had but the worst customer service.  I won't even tell you about my nightmare getting this thing.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: vermonster13 on January 05, 2009, 07:48:00 PM
John can be a challenge to deal with on warranty stuff. He's had a friend of mines bow for over a year now waiting to be fixed.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: bbassi on January 05, 2009, 07:58:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by vermonster13:
John can be a challenge to deal with on warranty stuff. He's had a friend of mines bow for over a year now waiting to be fixed.
Good to know David. Sorry about your bow Bear Heart but I for one just took sovereign off my "need to own" list. There are too many really good bowyers around here to deal with bad CS.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: ONE SHOT on January 05, 2009, 08:06:00 PM
Looks like air bubles to Me. With Black or Brown Glass you would never know they were there.

There are several things that can cause this problem. One is not preparig the wood laminate properly before glue-up. Another is oil from the Bowyers fingers.

Usuly not caused from over clamping, or too much pressure, but rather from not enought pressure to distrubite the glue evenly. Also can be caused By the Bow form not being flat and square with the sides of the form.

Some woods will absorb the glue faster than other woods, the glue gets soaked into the wood laminate before it has a chance to bond and set-up with the "F" Glass....ONE SHOT...  :)    :)    :)
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: CaptJack on January 05, 2009, 08:19:00 PM
Bear Heart
thanks for letting us know it wasn't a Quinn limb
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on January 08, 2009, 08:51:00 PM
Have called several times and since being told I would be called back.  Nothing but an answer machine.  Sovereign archery has had the worst customer service of any archery related company I have dealt with.  Buyers beware.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: SOS on January 08, 2009, 09:15:00 PM
Bearheart, sorry to hear about the problems...but makes you wonder what I have under the black glass on my homemade limbs.....hmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Bubble under bows glass Pics added
Post by: Bear Heart on January 08, 2009, 10:10:00 PM
I just want him to say if it is or isn't an issue.  If he says don't worry about it I want his word if there is a failure in that spot he will fix it period.  Mistakes happen but if you take a man's money you owe it to him to stand by your product.