in order to help me to make some comparisons, could you EFOC people post here your EFOC setup like that:
bow:
draw weight:
draw length:
string: dacron or modern?
arrow length and species:
shaft static spine or deflection:
feathers, number and length:
point's weight:
additional weight eventually:
total arrow weight:
EFOC in %:
arrow speed if known:
momentum if known:
thanks...
55# Northstar recurve
27.5 inch draw
carbonwood 45/60 @ 29 1/4 inches
100grain brass insert
165 grain tip
3-4" RW offset parabolic
23% FOC
total arrow weight about 580gr
Tapered (11/32 to 5/16) wenge footed POC woodies, 28 7/8 to BOP (28-inch draw), 160 grain STOS broadheads,three 5-inch left helical shield cut feathers. About 675 grains, 75-80# spine, 19% FOC. Hunt them with a 62# Hill and 58# Robertson longbow.
45# Pearson Hawk
B50 string
35-55 goldtips cut to 28" ..deflection .500
100gr brass insert
50 gr bh adapter
130 gr bh
2 fletch (5" shields)
total wgt=482gr
gives me a balance point 6 inches behind the head, 22 inches in front of the nock
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/trapperDave/archery/111_0059.jpg)
please, I forget to ask your shaft spine deflection and your string nature (dacron or modern), thanks to add it!
53# ACS CX
27" draw
4 strand D97 string
29" Hunting tapered cedar with long Osage footing
3 4" low profile feathers
80-85#, 160 gn BH, 650gn total
about 19% foc
Deadly quiet
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/bjornweb/DSCN0412.jpg)
RER takedown recurve
63#
29"
fast flight
30 3/4 inch axis full metal jacket 300
.300
3 helical 4" feathers
190 grain broadheads (use 175 grain field points and 5 grain adapter ring for practice)
100 grain brass point insert
Total arrow weight about 665 grains
FOC about 23.5%
Don't know speed or momentum
up please
bow: Widow PTF
draw weight: 53lbs
draw length: 27"
string: dacron or modern? Dyna 97
arrow length and species: 28" Beman MFX Carbon
shaft static spine or deflection: 400
feathers, number and length: 5" feathers
point's weight: 200 grain
additional weight eventually: 100 grain brass insert
total arrow weight: 620 - 625
EFOC in %:
arrow speed if known: 162 fps
momentum if known: no idea
Single-tapered wood shafts, from light to heavy depending on game. Heavy heads. I would try footed shafts but can't afford 'em. Average bow is r/d longbow, 55#@28". Dave
Abbott longbow
42@28
30" so 48 @ 30
6 strand D97
31" to back of point / beman ics energy 460
.460 deflection
3 two inch rayzr feathers
310 gr point
550 gr total
24 % efoc
up please
bow: Various
draw weight: 62-63#
draw length: 30"
string: dacron or modern? TS+
arrow length and species: 31" Beeman MFX 340
shaft static spine or deflection: .340"
feathers, number and length: 4x3" Parabolic, 90*
point's weight: 200gn
additional weight eventually: 100gn insert
total arrow weight: 660gn
EFOC in %: 21%
arrow speed if known: 172-191 depending on bow used
momentum if known: Unknown
Trapper Dave, tell me about your 2x5" feathers, I just tried 2x3" with great results, I know it's only 6" of total feather, I like the way it clears the bow.
I was also thinking along the lines of DrewsBow, with 3x2" which is still 6" of feather.
With EFOC you don't need a lot in the back end to steer your arrow, it just slows it down like a flu-flu.
I have just started playing around with EFOC. I normally shoot shafts that are 55-60# spine. When I added more weight up front I had to go up 10# in spine. I got the extra weight up front by using 125gr. woody weights. They flew great and I like the way they smack the target with authority.
Jack
bow:Great Northern Fireball
draw weight:52#
draw length:27.5"
string: dacron or modern?dacron
arrow length and species:28.5" Tapered larch
shaft static spine or deflection:65-70#
feathers, number and length:4-4" parabolic @90
point's weight:145gr.
additional weight eventually:125gr. woody weight
total arrow weight:735gr.
EFOC in %:20%
arrow speed if known:?
momentum if known:?
I have studied the posts on this forum for a while now but haven't contributed much being a relative newbe. But lately there has been so much incredible info posted here that I felt compelled to put something out there!
Bjorn, that beautiful arrow of yours really makes me consider going back to wood!
Anyway, here is what has been shooting very well for me. The small 4 fletch steers a 160 grizzly just like a fieldpoint, is quiet, and holds up well when wet. Thanks to all and have a safe and happy holidays.
Dave :notworthy:
Bow:Brackenbury Quest
Draw Weight:54#@29
Draw Length:29.5"
String: 12 strand D97 w/wool silencers
Arrow Length/Type:30" BOP, CT Rhino 45/70
Fletch: 4X2.5" A&A w/turbulator!
Point weight/Arrow weight: 200gr/600 grain
Insert: 100 gr brass
EFOC:24.2%
Speed: 165fps +/-
I am still old school. I just did the fomula for FOC on my POC shafts and I'm at 10.8...
I've never worried about these things because I tune to perfection and the arrows always do their job if I do mine correctly.
I have to ask. What is the advantage of all that extra weight up front? I did the math on two of the set ups in this thread and they both are getting only 36 foot pounds of energy. Would you really want to shoot a Moose or Elk with that set up? How do these heavy FOC shafts penetrate really large game?
bow:self made R/D longbow
draw weight:61#
draw length:29"
string: dacron
arrow length and species:30" BOP Kingwood footed tapered Ash
shaft static spine or deflection:60#-65#
feathers, number and length:3-5.75 swift cut turkeys
point's weight:190gr Griz
additional weight eventually:200gr woodie weight
total arrow weight:997gr
EFOC in %:21%
arrow speed if known:152fps
momentum if known: ?
This is what I shot in Africa with great success!
up :clapper:
QuoteOriginally posted by JDS3:
I am still old school. I just did the formula for FOC on my POC shafts and I'm at 10.8...
I've never worried about these things because I tune to perfection and the arrows always do their job if I do mine correctly.
I have to ask. What is the advantage of all that extra weight up front? I did the math on two of the set ups in this thread and they both are getting only 36 foot pounds of energy. Would you really want to shoot a Moose or Elk with that set up? How do these heavy FOC shafts penetrate really large game?
JDS3, you got to read what the Doc. has been doing, it's not about the foot pounds, it's about momentum, mass in motion stays in motion.
The EFOC just increases the penetration on the same weight arrow.
I think a golf club is a good example, take a driver, distribute all of the weight in the shaft equally, see how far it hits, or transfers it's energy to the ball.
Now put all of the weight in the head of the club, like they have done, BAM!!!! WOW!!!! now all, or most of the energy is transferred to the ball, or in our case to the arrow.
Hope this knucklehead helped you understand it, go here for more info.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=000013
up please ! and merry christmas !
Here's one;
Morrison Dakota 58"
56#@ 28 inches
29" draw
fast flight
31 5/8
3-60 340 Kinetic
5" left twist
200 grain broadhead
150 Grains 1/4 all thread ballast behind insert.
713 Grains total weight
22% FOC
Here' another one;
Black Widow SAIII 60"
62#@ 28"
30" draw
fastflight
32 5/8 100#+ Gold Tip
280 spine
5" left twist
200 grain broad head or field point
200 grains 1/4 all tread ballast behind insert
795 grains total arrow weight
24.7 FOC
Here's another one;
Pronghorn 3 piece takedown longbow 62"
65# @ 28" bamboo backed osage
29" draw length
fast flight
32 3/4 easton 2317 XX75
spine 300
factory feathers 4 inch
200 grain broadhead
300 grains 5/16 allthread ballast behind insert
total arrow weight: 992 grains, wow!
23.66% FOC
Here's a target setup;
Black Widow SAIII 60"
36#@28
30" draw
fastflight
30 3/8 gold tip pro 3555 (full length)
480 spine (American made only for me)
5" left twist
100 grain field point
90 grains 1/4 allthread ballast behind insert
total arrow weight: 446 grains
20.37% FOC
Just a word of caution here; if you set up any heavy arrows make sure the knocks are up to the task. I had the Pronghorn out today in the cold and shot the above mentioned Eastons among other arrows as well and had some problems with knocks pulling out so to speak (Easton super knocks and gold tips). Not a complete dry fire, the arrow would still make it to the target. Am going to check into better knocks if there is such a thing. One of the 2317s wouldn't hold a knock at all (four times in a row with new knocks) and a couple of others blew out as well in some old 340s. I've never seen this before so it must be cold related. I am generally dilligent about keeping good knocks in arrows, even old ones so this wasn't a new concept to me.
It would not be the thing to have happen when shooting at a trophy on the last day of the hunt. Could be dangerous as well.
up sirs
The target set up that I posted above is invalid now. I found out I had a dacron string on those 36# limbs. It came labeled FF. With a FF string those 3555 gold tips aren't holding up to the speed of the limbs now. Got to redo some arrows for those. Maybe a 31 inch 400 ultra lite GT at 22% FOC might do the trick. Just a guess though, It never ceases to amaze me as to how fast my widows really are.
bow:Das master 62", border hex5h long limbs
draw weight:52
draw length:29.75
string: dacron or modern? 8125
arrow length and species:30" axis footed
shaft static spine or deflection:340
feathers, number and length:4x2.5
point's weight:200gr
additional weight eventually:100gr, so 300gr total
total arrow weight:635
EFOC in %:20
arrow speed if known:176fps
thanks guys and up !
58# MORRISON ILF Longbow foam-carbon limbs
29.5" 340 bemeam 28"draw
3-4" feathers
250grs up front
620grs total
speed ? seems fast
FOC??
55# Blacktail TD recurve
29.5" Carbon Express Heritage shafts
3- 5"feathers Rh helical
225gr. up front
600gr. total
10.91 GPP
FOC=22.13
speed...? all I know they hammer the target and are stable in the wind and hit where I look!
Anyone want to add their current setups for those of us new to the EFOC game? Thanks, gents.
Dan Toelke 62" "Whips" 54# @29", fast flight string, Beman MFX 500's, 30 3/8" throat of nock- back of pt., 3 five in. feathers, two 100 gr. brass adapters glued in back to back, 145 gr. field pts., 24% f.o.c., 655 grains total wt., 168 f.p.s. They bareshaft & paper tune beautifully. I shoot middle/ring under , index barely touching side of string,"point on" is 36 yards. They fly "staight as an arrow".
53#@ 28",56" Mojo Stik
FF string
Draw length 28"
30" Gold Tip 75/95
3,5" RW Shield feathers
407 grains up front
Broadhead is a modified Grizzly El Grande,now 175gr/100 gr brass insert/118 gr steel adaptor/13 gr alum.external footing.
Total arrow weight is 709 grains
FOC is 28%
45#@ 28" gamemaster 2
fast flight with some big green puffs
drawing 28"
29.25" beman bowhunter 500
50gr brass and 175 abowyer or
100gr brass and 125 stinger
3 4" lime parabolics
483gr total weight
21.6% FOC
never chrono'd these ones
Bob lee 63@ 29"
31 inch beman 340
4x4 low profile banana
190 gr grizzly
125 gr steel insert
100 gr brass insert
415 gr up front
total arrow weight 730.
fly great and hit hard.
Gilbert
Pronghorn 53@30"
30.50 55/75 Gold Tips
5" parabolic
190gr Husker
100gr brass insert
5.8gr lockwasher
300 gr up front
Hit the same place as my field points out to 30 yds.
Total arrow weight 596-598.
bow: Black Widow PSA
draw weight: 63@29
draw length: 29
string: dacron or modern? Modern
arrow length and species: 31 1/4 - Arrow Dynamics
shaft static spine or deflection: 95-100 pounds
feathers, number and length: 3 - 5.5 inch
point's weight: 200 grains head, 100 grain insert
additional weight eventually: zero
total arrow weight: 680
EFOC in %: 14.7%
arrow speed if known: ~187
momentum if known: xxxxx
for me, I can't get there (EFOC) and still be considering this a fun activity.....
My current arrow is a 31" supercedar footed on the nock end with a Reparrow to make a 34" (nock valley to bop) arrow for my 32"+ draw. Run the Dynamic Spine program, and it already takes 105# spine to work with a 135-145 gr point on a 56#@32" bow. This arrow weighs over 825g. Nothing out there will work aside from harvesting telephone poles for shafts to allow me to bump point weight, and have a spine to handle this..... sorry, not this guy. Glad many of you can do this, and gain results.
Shoot straight, shoot well.
BobW
BobW, I wonder if the Hungarians you fear had EFOC??? *^).
Man, I love this stuff. I was perusing some of the old thread With Dr Ed and OL playing with the EFOC and using smaller fletchings w/ the turbulator. Anybody utilizing this tech? Haven't seen to much about it recently. Am I looking in the wrong spot? I know you're not into the EFOc much, George. Ever given it a whirl? I wonder if you would see any improvement with adding a touch more up front. Not that you need it.lol, I don't mean that as a smarta$$, George. Just fun to tinker and play.
Bow:sweptwing
Draw Weight:58#@29
Draw Length:29
String: 10 strand D97 6 pads w/ catwiskers
Arrow Length/Type:forge kevlar 60/80s
Fletch:3x3.5
Point weight/Arrow weight: 320/585
Insert: 20
EFOC: 31.2%
Speed: 186 fps
not sure how accurate my efoc is i used on of those online foc calculators where u put in the arrow lenght and distance from center to balance point and it spits out a number.
QuoteOriginally posted by George D. Stout:
BobW, I wonder if the Hungarians you fear had EFOC??? *^).
George:
I'm the Hungarian they fear!!!!!
2 Black Widow longbows, 1 at 58#@28, the other at 61#@28
Arrows...Arrow Dynamics Traditionals cut to 31 1/4"..100 gr brass insert, a 260 gr tip (broadhead 275 gr).
5" shield cut feathers...
Total arrow weight.. 735 grains.
EFOC: 26%
I appreciate everyone who's chimed in. I'm just setting up myself. I'm shooting a Sweptwing at 51# at 28. Buying a Vario Clipper and getting ready to have fun! 'Course I'm jest into my 3rd week since rotator surgery so I'm sidelining and watching you guys. Living vicariously for the moment. Good luck to all. Please chime in with your reports of added penetration(or so it seems!).
42@27 gamemaster.
28.5" 500 entrada,4" feathers and 200gn SPT 420gns.
183FPS,
30% FOC
Nice, James.
up guys !