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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: nightowl1 on December 13, 2008, 10:43:00 PM

Title: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: nightowl1 on December 13, 2008, 10:43:00 PM
I have tried and tried to shoot my hornes brushbow but i just can't keep my groups together outside of 12 yards. I started off with a ben pearson recurve... thinking of going back to it.
Is there that big of a difference for some people between longbow and recurve.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: vermonster13 on December 13, 2008, 10:45:00 PM
It's usually a grip issue.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: jacobsladder on December 13, 2008, 10:51:00 PM
i agree with vermonster.... the grip is usually the problem... if i remember right that brushbow has somewhat of a narrow throat (i could be wrong)... .. thats assuming your arrows are spined correctly for your bow...... good luck and keep at it!
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: lebecnal on December 13, 2008, 10:53:00 PM
Yeah, the grip is the difference, but it's the anchor of the grip that makes longbows different from recurves. On a recurve, your pivot-point or anchor is in the "saddle" between thumb and first finger, but on a longbow, it's in the palm. This changes the relationship of the bowhand and the arrow.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Danny Rowan on December 13, 2008, 10:55:00 PM
Do not feel left out,LOL. I cannot shoot a longbow worth squat anymore. For me it is the mass weight of my custom recurves. Longbows feel too light and I just cannot shoot them consistantly. Strange since I shot longbows exclusively for many,many years then one day everything went to crap so switched to a curve and everything is fine.

Danny
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: lebecnal on December 13, 2008, 10:55:00 PM
Out past 12 yards, the arrow on a longbow tends to go up diagonally to the side opposite your shooting hand. It'll just take awhile for the brain to adjust to this concept!
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: John3 on December 13, 2008, 10:56:00 PM
Can be a HUGE difference for some...

You can shoot your longbow well.. Make sure your set up is correct. Spine must be correct with a non centershot longbow. Need some specs.

Bow draw weight?
Draw lenght?
shaft spine?
tip weight?
bow brace height?
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: myshootinstinks on December 13, 2008, 11:26:00 PM
I generally shoot a 'curve better too, but can adapt either way and shoot well. Assuming everything is tuned, correct spine, etc. try this; Get both the the LB and the Pearson out, ready to shoot. Draw your LB and anchor as you would your Pearson,just as you would when about to release, stop for a few seconds, hold, and look at the arrow tip in relation to your target. Then do the same w/ the Pearson. Do this several times until you realize the difference in the two and adjust your bow arm w/ the LB to place the tip of the arrow in the same position as the Pearson that you shoot well. Practice this until you become accustomed to the slightly altered bow arm position. In other words, shoot the arrow, not the bow.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: JCJ on December 13, 2008, 11:28:00 PM
I'm just the opposite. I shoot a longbow much better than any recurve I've owned.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: O.L. Adcock on December 13, 2008, 11:57:00 PM
For most it's what Danny said..Mass weight...Any movement you do with your bow hand will be magnified with less mass..But nothing in stone says a longbows HAS to be lighter in mass other then perceptions....O.L.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Wannabe1 on December 14, 2008, 02:19:00 AM
I guess I'm just the opposite. I can't shoot my recurves worth a darn. But, shoot my longbows very well. I started out on longbows so maybe that's it.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: 30coupe on December 14, 2008, 02:19:00 AM
Try putting a bow quiver full of arrows on it and see if that helps. Sometimes the added mass is all you need.

And don't peek!
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Daddy Bear on December 14, 2008, 09:12:00 AM
I found in-depth reviews of the Hornes Archery Brushbow in the Dec/Jan 2007 issue of Traditional Bowhunter, the Feb/March 2007 issue of African Archer & Adventurer, and in the Bow Reports by Blacky Schwarz.  The Brushbow is fairly heavy with a reflex-deflex design, a recurve style 17inch riser, a tournament specification sight window, a recurve pistol grip, and a recurve friendly brace height. The Brushbow appears to be a departure from a traditional longbow in all areas, being more akin to a recurve except for the limb tips.

I am curious as to which type of recurve you are shooting well, and how does that particular recurve differ in riser, grip, weight, etc. from your Brushbow? You may be running into issues with your basic bow set-up and tune more so than difference in bow design. If your Brushbow is set-up correctly and tuned well, I'm at a bit of a loss as to how you'd run into problems if the only difference between this and your recurve is the limb tips.

When choosing backpacks, boots, baseball bats, rifle stocks, etc.; you'll sometimes find that selected gear which works exceedingly well for some, will be a complete abysmal failure for others. Selecting a bow is no different and maybe this is what you are experiencing:)

Good Luck,

Daddy Bear
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: bentpole on December 14, 2008, 09:16:00 AM
I'm very surprised that your having a hard time shooting a Horne's Brushbow. I owned two Brushbows, and presently shoot a Horne's Traditionalist Longbow. Out of all my bows I probably shoot the Horne's the most acccurate. The riser/handle is perfect in my hand.Anyway it does have a high brace height and most people do in fact shoot them well.My other Longbows have a lower brace height 6 1/2 to 6 3/4 .I have some Trad Ganger Buds that can't shoot them to save their lives because of that. If you really shoot your recurve better I'd say you have a big decision to make. Good Luck! Try like 30coupe says and put a quiver on it. It just may balance the bow a little better.Make sure your arrow nock doesn't slide on the string, correct brace height, anchor, and a good release is vital. Your arrows are correct for the bow as well?
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Ray Hammond on December 14, 2008, 10:22:00 AM
I can't either.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: billy shipp on December 14, 2008, 10:30:00 AM
Me either   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: 30coupe on December 14, 2008, 11:04:00 AM
Okay, I just went to the Horne's website. Now you have to add me to the I don't get it group. Here is an image, thanks to Photoshop, of the Brushbow with a Ridgerunner recurve superimposed next to it. The Brushbow is more recurve than longbow.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/30coupe/Brushbow-Ridgerunner.jpg)

If you are having trouble with it, it's not because it's a longbow. There are other issues at play here: tuning, nock set, brace height, string, archer, etc.

Maybe you can't shoot that longbow for whatever reason, but I don't think it's inherent to longbows.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: JRY309 on December 14, 2008, 11:13:00 AM
I'm just the opposite,I can't shoot a recurve as good as my longbows.Like said for me it is a grip preference.I shoot my Kohannah Kurve just fine because it is more like a 50's style recurve,but much prefer the grip of longbows whether straight,dish or locator more then recurve type grips.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Barney on December 14, 2008, 11:26:00 AM
I won't say I can't shoot a longbow......but I sure can't shoot one well.   :knothead:
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: buckeye_hunter on December 14, 2008, 01:18:00 PM
I have the same problem and I agree with Vermonster about it being a grip issue. I am much better with a recurve, but still have a long way to go!

Ok, just looked at the above pictures. Do their longbows "feel" similar to their recurves while drawing and are they cut the same amount to center?

-Charlie
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Elk whisperer on December 14, 2008, 01:37:00 PM
Its you not the bow. Just nned good form.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: JL on December 14, 2008, 01:38:00 PM
You put a recurve grip on a LB and I'll shoot it well. If I have to break my wrist on the grip, it's over. To solve this problem, I did what any other experienced archer would do....bought a set of LB limbs for my Zipper TD! Best of both worlds now and there is much rejoicing!

JL
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: myshootinstinks on December 14, 2008, 01:40:00 PM
I think when we're talking about Hill-style bows or LBs w/ smallish, low grips, it may well be a grip issue.  If that's an accurate pic of a Bushbow above, that grip is a recurve style grip. My '50s style recurves don't have that much grip.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Apex Predator on December 14, 2008, 04:50:00 PM
I cut my teeth on recurves and shot them well.  Over the last year or so, I've been shooting nothing but longbows.  I used to think that I could shoot them equally well, but now it's all what I'm used to.  The longbow is most natural for me.  That means more consistent on that first arrow of the day, or the hunting shot.  I have to stick with just one type, and that will be longbows for now.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Ghost Dog on December 14, 2008, 05:47:00 PM
Forgive me for going up against the grip argument, but I doubt it has anything to do with the grip. It is always tempting to find fault with our equipment, when it is most often something lacking in ourselves.

Too often if we believe something to be true about our equipment, or ourselves for that matter, we then we find a way of making it come to fruition.

Master the bow. Drive your bow arm toward the target and bring your string arm to it's ultimate position. Keep your bow arm as steady as a mountain, and release the arrow to it's ultimate destination.

The bow is a slave to your desire. Show it who is in charge.

Read this article by Dean Torges:    http://www.bowyersedge.com/elements.html
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Shaun on December 14, 2008, 06:05:00 PM
I'm with the G Dog on this one, pilot error! Arrows go where they are pointed. Point the arrow at the target and use good form.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: knobby on December 14, 2008, 06:07:00 PM
Well put Barney! I'm in the same boat. I enjoy longbows, and would love to shoot nothing else, but right now I'm using a recurve with a sight,'cause I've been melting down on animals lately, and the sight helps me in that aspect. I had a Brushbow, myself, and wish it would have worked for me. They're nice bows. Maybe someday...
  Good luck.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Brian Krebs on December 14, 2008, 06:10:00 PM
I hope you didn't assume that an arrow from a 60 pound recurve will fly the same out of a 60 pound longbow... try different spined arrows; I had a great deal of trouble when I switched from a recurve to a longbow because of this...
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: SL on December 14, 2008, 06:27:00 PM
I fought the grips thing for along time. I found out holding the bow and gripping it are 2 diffrent things. You have to hold the bow- just dont grip it too tight! By the way, once I got that through my head, my recurve shooting improved too! When your not choking the bow,  you're not introducing torque to the riser.

At least thats what worked for me.
SL
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: 30coupe on December 14, 2008, 07:32:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by myshootinstinks:
 If that's an accurate pic of a Bushbow above, that grip is a recurve style grip.  
It better be, I took it from Horne's website!

A won't vouch for the accuracy of the recurve. The pictures were the same size on the screen, but the Bushbow was 96 dpi and the recurve was 180. I had to shrink the recurve once I moved it to the other picture, so the actual grip may be a tad larger or smaller than the one above. The Bushbow should be spot-on though.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: nightowl1 on December 15, 2008, 09:26:00 AM
Ok, I guess I was a little unclear in my original statement...
In NO WAY is this the bows fault haha. It is a beautiful bow smooth, fast, and quiet. Complete and udder pilot error. WHen I shoot it I completely lose concentration. It doesn't fit me.

My Brushbow is 56#28 and i draw 28 BTW and probably for sale!

The difference to me is the size of the grip and just the feeling as I bring the string back to my face... the best way to describe the recurve is: familiar. I started off with this bow (50#@28)and could stack arrows at 15 yards and group them fine at 20-25. I wanted more weight and something fancy. So I got this guy, have tried to make it work for a year now and can't keep consistent.

Perhaps I'm a little over bowed but i don't believe so. I think it all goes back to... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". This my be "THE" bow for me and i just lucked out and got it from the start.

And how much more traditional can you be than shooting a 40 yr old Pearson deer slayer?
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: longbowben on December 15, 2008, 09:36:00 AM
Not every bow shoots the same you have to find the longbow that fits you best.I love the feel of a light one piece bow,its what you like and 6 pounds is a lot to move up.Good luck
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Curveman on December 15, 2008, 11:51:00 AM
I would've said it was the grip until I saw the riser, now I just think it is your concentration. You could stay with it and check it with different arrows etc. but if you have aleady given it a year and your heart isn't into working with the bow at this point, why bother? THere are other bows to enjoy.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Wary Buck on December 15, 2008, 01:17:00 PM
I had some trouble when I switched from RC to LB, and I'm sure it was a grip issue.  After much inconsistency with wrist issues, I began to tuck the pinky and ring fingers of my bow hand into my palm and holding the bow with only my pointer and middle finger in an attempt to replicate the higher wrist recurve grip and lo and behold, my shooting improved.  That was YEARS ago.  Today, even when walking in or out of the woods I just naturally carry my bow that way and it works for me.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: nightowl1 on December 15, 2008, 01:27:00 PM
Set my recurve up today with bow quiver and all. Stepped out to 27 yards and had a coffee can group and a smile from ear to ear...

This stuff is too much fun.
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: Bullfrog 1 on December 15, 2008, 02:22:00 PM
A good way to work on wrist issues is to draw the bow with an open hand. It forces you to use the wrist muscles and then wrap your fingers around the grip before settling in.   BILL
Title: Re: can't shoot a longbow
Post by: ron w on December 15, 2008, 07:27:00 PM
There's no such thing as CAN'T. Maybe theres an issue with the grip or shape of the grip. Maybe you need more or less cant to the bow. Maybe you need more time shooting a longbow. Maybe the spine of your arrows but no CAN'T !!!!