in the last few days i've been practising in windy conditions. two days in a row i had a right to left crosswind. my arrows were landing nock left which had me thinking my arrows were weak. (i'm r/handed). then i had a calm day and my arrows were good again. then today i had a left to right crosswind, with arrows landing nock right. even as close as 5m there was a noticable effect from the wind. wind was about 10-15 knots. arrows are 5/16" carbon, EFOC. 4x4" feathers. anyone else had a similar experience??
Yes.
I regularly shoot behind the house, and the target is in the free wind, and when i shoot @ longer ranges I am in free wind, but the arrow path is shielded by the house and garage. By the sea, here is always wind.
Sometimes the arrow will start with a strong sidewind, fly into quiet, or even opposite, and then into even stronger sidewind. They do all sorts of flying maneuvers, then landing nock way out to the side.
K
An arrow is very affected by crosswind. I shot a caribou some years back where I swear I could see the whole arrow before it hit. Always something to consider.
Yes they are extremely affected by a cross wind because there is alot of surface area contact with the wind. If you want to tune your arrows it needs to be in calm conditions or they will show wrong readings.
you will have less cross wind effect by going with small dia shaft ( axis ) + high FOC and you can use a hunter style feathers 4" x 7/16 height. Here is my set up Easton axis nano 400, 30 1/4" 300 gr tip, 4 hunter style feathers. Morrison Cheyenne 51@28 draw 27,5. This setup gives me the least amount of drift,good luck
ASL
Monday evening I had a 140" 8pt @ 25yds that
I had to pass on because of 30mph winds. just
was unsure of what the wind would do to my arrow.
Paul
Clint:
Thats not uncommon, and the more feather you have the more its effected. One of the reasons I have difficulty understanding guy's using 5 1/2" high back fletching. If that much feather is necessary to stabilize an arrow something else is wrong!!
Bob
4inch fletch!
Oh yes....Unpowered projectiles are part of the air mass. They will stabilize into the average of the vector velocities. The only thing that reduces the amount of drift is velocity...The more the better....Things like skinny shafts, smaller fletching, high FOC, all contribute to more velocity down range......O.L.
Huge difference in the effect on my grizzlystik arrows with 5 inch shields and my axis full metal jackets with 4 inch low profile paraobolic feathers.
QuoteUnpowered projectiles... They will stabilize into the average of the vector velocities.
No O.L. It is much worse. At least for bullets
I hate to contradict you of all people, and I may be wrong and arrows are wastly different from bullets, but you say "projectiles" yorself. A Frencman by the name Didion figured this out long ago. I do not understand why or how, but shoot enough rifle @ long range to know its true. The faster your projectile decelerates, the more it deflects.
Lateral deflection = Windspeed * (Flight time at constant velocity - real flight time)
Read this: Didions Approximation (http://www.lima-wiederladetechnik.de/Ballistik/Didion/Didion.htm)
K
I shot my first caribou during a windy day (in Labrador it was considered just a "breeze"). When I released the arrow I knew that about half way there the wind would take it in front of the caribou's rib cage. Then the 'bou helped by taking a step to the right and I got him in the jugular. I much prefer to shoot with the wind than across it.
I remember my first year of bowhunting, 1981, with a used Browning compound and Bear Metric Magnum or Metric Hunter (?) arrows. Was practicing on a real crosswind day, and after the first three arrows I could tell something was wrong. Walked up to the target and I had three bent arrows. The arrows had obviously not been very straight at all when entering the straw bale and each of the arrows was bent. I think at the time I had only six arrows, so I was pretty bent too.
KrEn, "The faster your projectile decelerates, the more it deflects."
I agree, the fatter the shaft, the bigger the fletching, the faster they decelerate. I'm confused as to what part you disagree with? :) ...O.L.
Hey, we had a calm day here in the Texas Panhandle and I didn't have clue what my arrows were gonna do. :knothead: :bigsmyl: Really, we have bunches of wind and if you shoot in it enough the instinct deal works for you as it does with elevation and distance. Shoot at what you wanna hit and go for it. Of course common sense dictates that to far of a distance and too much wind speed will make it very unlikely that an arrow will penetrate an animal in a straight path for a humane kill. We do try to shoot as straight an arrow path with that being one of the reasons right? Tailwinds and headwinds can cause some funny things to happen sometimes too. Paul J. has the right idea, if it's that windy put it up so you don't get a bad hit.
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quote: Unpowered projectiles... They will stabilize into the average of the vector velocities.
No O.L. It is much worse. At least for bullets
I hate to contradict you of all people, and I may be wrong and arrows are wastly different from bullets, but you say "projectiles" yorself. A Frencman by the name Didion figured this out long ago. I do not understand why or how, but shoot enough rifle @ long range to know its true. The faster your projectile decelerates, the more it deflects.
Lateral deflection = Windspeed * (Flight time at constant velocity - real flight time)
I shot competitive benchrest for a few years and I use to think I shot pretty well and could shoot small groups till I hooked up with the benchrest crowd and then
I learned what it really takes to shoot groups measured .0000. Until then you could never convince me a 1 mph wind would or could effect a 70 grain bullet doing 3800 fps at a 100 yards.
Long story short...yes the wind will mess with your point of impact.
My arrows are dragging 4 5" feathers. In the wind, my penetration may suffer, but the way that arrow spins, I might just cut a deer in half.
:bigsmyl:
interesting. another thing learned.
there is a basket racked whitetail buck that lived through my 5 shots at it with a severe- 60 plus mile an hour wind. I kept waiting until the wind seemed to stop; and kept missing.
I think one controllable factor is the shape of the fletch and the length. I shoot 5 1/2 inch high profile shield cuts... and that buck lived at least in a big part due to that.
Here is a 'simple' test- I see Clint that you use a bow quiver. Load that quiver up with one type of fletch and hold the bow out the window while your driving down the road. The try another fletch shape and length. I bet you find a big difference in a smaller fletch and a big fletch.
Same thing happens when the arrow is in flight; and is hit with wind.
I believe most people with sail boats have figured this out.
I've noticed when shooting in heavey crosswinds that the EFOC carbons(Carbon extremes 150's & 3555 GT's with 250 grains up front)"tail wag" more then my wood arrows (non-EFOC's) but they are not blown as far off as the woodies. Both had 5"shield fletching. The woodies seem to fly with much less wagging but are blown farther off my "spot". I worry about less then perpendicular entry which would reduces penetration on windy days with the carbons.
Excuse my ignorance but I've never heard about the Frecnh ballistics engineer, but when I did alot of rifle hunting and reloading(Win. .270) I prefered the 150 grain longer bullets to the 130 grain projectiles. The 150s started out a little slower but retained velocity better and were faster at 300 yards and deflected less due to the crosswind less than the 130's.
Bottom line is it effects them A LOT! One fun thing to do is shoot fluflu's into a good head wind, they'll land at your feet! :) The only things that reduce it's effect are shooting faster arrows and reducing drag so velocity isn't bled of as rapidly down range. The velocity thing is a catch 22 cause drag increases by the square of the velocity. Velocity increases without a huge reduction in drag to go with it will actually make things worse.....O.L.
I'll add one thing as an edit, the arrows are not effected at all by wind. All they do is stabilize into whatever wind they see. What is effected is their ground track and our preception of it....O.L.
3under, You bring out good stuff.."I've noticed when shooting in heavey crosswinds that the EFOC carbons(Carbon extremes 150's & 3555 GT's with 250 grains up front)"tail wag" more then my wood arrows (non-EFOC's) but they are not blown as far off as the woodies."
The "faster" an arrow will stabilize when disturbed by twigs, wind shears, small childern, ect...The less drag they'll have and the more velocity they'll carry down range. The further forward the FOC is, the more stable the arrow is. Again it's maintaining velocty that's helping you. The high FOC is "wagging" cause it's "correcting" while the low FOC is not(as fast), it's just drifting down wind! :)
"I prefered the 150 grain longer bullets to the 130 grain projectiles. The 150s started out a little slower but retained velocity better and were faster at 300 yards and delected less due to the crosswind less than the 130's."
Yep, the flight arrows that go the furthest(flatest) aren't the lightest(fastest). In fact the best ones are VERY heavy for their size. (and very high FOC) That cross sectional density thing effecting the drag coefficient. Skinny carbons the same weight as fat woods will shoot flatter and penetrate better even though they start out the same speed....O.L.
The smallest fletching you can get away with will also help a lot at long distances as mentioned much less drag.Harry Drake shot the smallest lightest shaft(about 120 grains)he could get away with safely and the smallest plastic fletch he could make with no tip what so ever on his arrow but rather just a tapperd end with no footings.Harry was going for the distance rather then the bullseye though.May try a smaller flecth on your arrows.bowdoc
"Harry Drake shot the smallest lightest shaft(about 120 grains)he could get away with safely and the smallest plastic fletch he could make with no tip what so ever on his arrow but rather just a tapperd end with no footings."
Yep, I know. Some of his thinking is/was correct, some not. I can say that cause I have more of the records then he does/did. I'll have them all before it's over! :) ....O.L.
mine some times fly of when it is windy
Here's a pic of the smallest fletch I've seen.I'am pretty certin these may be way to small for hunting arrows not sure on that.If a guy could bare shaft test them he may not need much more then this size fletch.It would sure help cut down on the drag form the cross winds...O.L.are you shooting the flight shots with the same type static tip bows Harry was shooting ??? I have'nt done much since I sold my Drake flight bow to Lance...bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/drake004.jpg)
Hey Don, It's getting off the subject..There are different "classes" and realistically one can only go after 1 or 2 records a year due to the way they have their rules set up. We've only gone after the longbows and just started in the "field and target" recurve classes, but shooting "longbows" in the recurve classes. You are talking the "flight recurve" where he (and everybody else)used short (36-38") static tipped recurves. I've only entered that class once, last year, in the 18KG weight class. I used a 50" "longbow" and set a FITA world record in that class. I only beat the old one by 100 meters or so! :) By the way I shoot fletching both feather in the wood classes and plastic in the others smaller then that. I have a Drake arrow just about identical to your's.
Back to wind drift...the things flight shooters do to get max distance and the target shooters do to shoot good groups and reduce drift at 90 meters, the same priciples apply. Same with arrow penetration, it's all drag reduction. The fletch sizes....An arrow needs to have a set amount of stability...Below that distance, wind drift, and penetration will suffer. Once "enough" stability is reached, more won't help if it increases drag. Which is what fletching by themselves does. The trick is to increase stability with FOC and reduce the fletching. We can have the same stability and reduce drag at the same time...O.L.
I have to throw this out there for the "flight" guys. Have you guys seen or heard of the FOB. It's a strange/new type of fletching for the "other" bows that really really shine in crosswinds. Anyone know if anyone's played with trying to make a solid-shelf version?
http://www.starrflight.com/
Soilarch, Hadn't seen them but they wouldn't work for "flight"..Way too big, way too much drag. Might call it an SOB! :) Just some trivia, last year there was a compound competeing in the compound 45# class. My 39# (18KG) "longbow" if you want to call it that out shot it....O.L.
Actually I think it was two subjects going at once.I was kind of tring to stay on track with the fellow TGers cross wind and thought he might like to try a smaller fletch.I do or did have a little interest in flight shooting at one time until we lost our place to shoot.bowdoc
at 20 yrds with 800 grain arrows, not much.