Folks- this is NOT A COMPLAINT. And I am not naive. This is just a recent observation about trading and buying within this tradgang community, as well as at-large.
Once again, I have had nothing but good relationships in ALL my dealings with buying/selling/trading here, and I would do it all again. . . But I have noticed a change in the way men deal with one another:
Usually when I sell/trade something and the buyer tells me the money is on the way, I take their word and immediately mail the item. I realize it is a risk, but so is the money that the buyer has sent. With that, though I am just 48, there was a day where we took men at their word. Gosh, I have often sent merchandise way before the money arrived. I know one guy on this site who recieved my merchandise before I got the money so he did not open the package until he knew I had received the money. Now that is a man, his word, and a community.
Again (A THRID TIME), I am not complaining!! Anyone on here who I have done business with has been great. I just wonder why those selling merchandise assume that the guy sending the money is the one who assumes the risk, and not trust both ways. I sure wish we could operate in trust once again. Perhaps the younger guys have tasted too much dishonesty and corruption.
"Traditional" to me is more than just equipment. It is a mind-set, integrity expression of choice, style, even something 'traditional' about how people/outsoorsman treat/trust one another.
Some rambling thoughts from a guy who hates the loss of 'traditional' and 'trust.' Sure like to revive it!
Any thoughts. . .??
I have still been having great luck with dealings on tradgang. I like to talk to the seller on the phone, helps get a feel for them.
I'm not as old as dirt, but I am as old as the trees growing in the dirt.
I can remember, when a man gave you his word, and that was all that was needed. I've bought and sold herds of cattle and horses on a handshake and a word. I've done the same with lesser things, too. But now I sometimes question things, but still go with my instinct. If it feels right, I'll go forward with a deal, if not I don't make the deal, and NEVER do bussines with that one again.
As you say, I wish we could go back to simpler times, a Word was Your Bond!
Just my .02 worth.
Johnny/JAG
Yup- my point JAG!
Well said,I agree
So I see the problem this way....It needs to start at home. When kids are young they need LEADERSHIP....., but what is LEADERSHIP. Leadership is EARNED not assumed. If you have owned a horse you will know what I mean. You don't earn a horses respect by beating it...you earn it through trust and leardership...and they will test you everyday.
Leadership is sorely lacking in our society. I was taught early that "YOUR WORD IS YOUR BOND". If you say you are "GOING TO DO SOMETHING...DO IT".
I grew up without a dad...my dad was in the entertainment business and screwed around on my mom LOTS. She finally had enough and left with 5 young kids..I was 2 the youngest. He gave my mom ZERO to help her out with all the bills.
We moved 25 times by the time I was 12...no friends cause we weren't in one place long enough. We moved in the middle of the night when the bill collectors would find us. She did what she had to but it wasn't easy...SHE HAD GUTS
I was shipped out like my sibblings to my uncles and aunts when I was young cause she couldn't afford to look after us all at the same time etc.
Finally my mom met this AWESOME fella when I was 12-1/2. He was a hard worker. Was in the Navy during the war and he had INTEGRITY.....
Never spoke much but loved my mom and that was good enough for me. He got my respect not because he was my dad or because he told me to respect him...he EARNED IT...each and everyday.
You just needed to be around him and see how much he would help people and always kept a smile. His friends loved him and respected him and if someone needed something he was the first to offer a hand.
We would go shopping and he would run to the door to open it for someone ahead of him. He would help ppl to their car with their groceries if they were having trouble. He would give a hand up NOT a handout. He really did that alot.
So what did I learn...LOTS...but not from TALK cause that's cheap...but from example day in and day out never wavering.
So I tried to instill that in my kids too. Lead by example and to do that you need to be AROUND THEM MORE.
There are many ppl growing up with this attitude of entitlement. That the WORLD SOMEHOW OWES them something...screw that. You earn your rights they are not assumed.
I had all the so-called right to be a disgruntled kid after what we went through growing up and many make those excuses...BULL.
You need GUTS and you need LEADERSHIP and it's sorely missing with all the government intervention and political correctness...it makes me sick....we are losing our identity and our freedoms by these wimpy ppl in power. They erode our freedoms by REGULATION.
My dad taught me that there is no democracy when ppl fear the government...the govermnent should fear the ppl.
Sorry .... on a rant here.
So teach our children early to do for others by being the example they need. Make sure you do for yourself too. You cannot help others if you are not in the position yourself first.
Show them the way and they will learn FASTER then teaching them the way.....words are words actions are seen and felt.
Jer Bear
I have tried to
Never had a problem here. A man's only as good as his word, and I'll take that word until proven otherwise.
I agree with JAG. I personally have only had good dealings on Tradgang. :thumbsup:
What Scattershot said. :thumbsup:
I have bought all my archery equip from sellers on archery sites(2 compounds,2 trad bow,etc etc)and have never had a problem. I think talking to them on the phone is a great idea. If you rip someone off on ArcheryTalk.com, the members there will track you down. There is always someone who lives in that area. It was always fun watching the detective type work the the members did there to catch a thief. I never have a problem sending my money first, thats what I do when I buy groceries, cars etc, here's my money now give me what I paid for. I bought 8 silver flame bh's from a guy, sent him the money and then he tells me he can't find them, sends my M.O.back and says when he finds them he will give them to me free-Right- sure enough a couple of weeks later he finds them and sends them to me, I still have to square up with that guy.
I do agree with what you are saying, but unfortunately business can no longer be done in that fashion.
Too many new people, and people from other countries are joining just to list things for sale, and then not deliver it's happening everywhere not just here. It's a different world or should I say the people are different than when I grew up.
I have sent things before I received payment as well, but only to members that post often, and have been a member here or on the other trad site for a good amount of time.
I feel there should be a certian amount of time you need to be a member before being able to list items in the classifeds. I see too many join, and head straight for the classifieds to sell. Just my thoughts.
Happy Holidays
Mike
KSdan
Your not alone! I miss those days to. And unfortunately I shoot with a guy who was screwed by a seller here. Like the warning in the classified section says "buyer beware."
I hear ya Dan, but have to agree with Mike. Both members are taking a risk in every transaction no doubt and it would be great to have some old fashion trust and men that stick to their word but I've been stung a couple times by sending stuff without payment. I shrugged it off and let it go. Trades I've always sent right away and never had an issue and will continue to always continue in that fashion. I guess my view is whoever posts an items sets the rules of the transactions and if they want payment first I have no issue with that. dino
I will disagree in the sense that in every era there have always been a few skunks around willing to spoil a picnic. But what makes the traditional bowhunting community somewhat different from other other hunter user groups is that the trad community is still relatively small. And because much of our gear tends to be handcrafted by individual bowyers, arrowmakers, stingmakers, etc, we tend to have more face-to-face or interpersonal relationships with those that make or supply the gear that is essential to our sport. This fact alone changes the dynamics and character of our sport and makes us somewhat different from other hunter groups who are much more reliant on largly faceless corporate entities to supply the tools of their sport.
While I've only bought and sold a few things here on Tradgang, I've had nothing but successful dealings with people. I hope we can keep it up!
mick
All my Trad Gang dealings have been without problems. You send the Money Order . When I get it I mail the bow. NEVER had any problems. Trad Gangers are 99% of the time OK in my book. :clapper:
I guess I'm gullible or just a trusting sort of a guy....
I have been doing business with the Traditional community here and at shoots for 7-10 yrs and I have sent products before the funds have arrived or cks have cleared....And I have yet to be burned....
I believe like some of you above, If someone says they want something and will send the funds then I will send the product on the persons word, when the time comes that I get burned (doubt it will happen here) I will continue to do business as usual....Cant blame the masses for a single individual....
Anyway, I guess it all boils down to trust give it and receive it....
And as mentioned above, this community is so big that if something bad did happen, I just might know someone in your neck of the woods to sick on ya....Just kidding...."Ya think"
I've never had any troubles with anyone here on Tradgang when buying or trading items. I've bought bows, broadheads and all tyes of stuff.
Naturally sending gear from the US to Australia can be a problem but I've always taken a mans word. I kinda like that too.
AK.
There are reasons most never have a problem and that is because we jump hard on those who cause problems. Usually when one advertises merchandise they actually have it, not always so for those who say they have money. Been more and more folks getting e-mailed about stuff they have up for sale by people who aren't members. I personally think if a person wants to deal in the classifieds they should have their real name and state in their profile also if they aren't a member here we can be of very little help to you if any. Like in all things know who you are dealing with, cause like I said we come down hard on the unscrupulous, but someone gets burned before we find out who those people are most times.
Lots of good input and some great ideas. Sure hope you all read clearly that I also have had nothing but great experiences here. I just see more hesitancy to trust. I also agree there will always be a few skunks.
If possible with us. . . let us continue to develop a different type of community and statement of integrity. Its not always easy and we may get burned. Some things, like shooting trad equip, are just worth a sacrifice.
Thanks for the great response
Dan in KS
well most of ya know me if i say i am sending somthing then its on its way. as this is the only way i deal and that is straight up no crap get it done. and i expect the same from anyone on here. jeff
I also tend to take a person at their word, haven't been burned here and really like this community. If I say I'll get a MO out to you you can bank on it getting there, even if its by snail mail. Like Jeff says-staight up and no crap.
I'm with Jeff and Tom on this. If I make a deal, it's done. The money or the item will be on its way. I also agree with KSDan, I'd like to be able to do a transaction where the item and the funds cross paths on the way. Seems like the risks are pretty equal.
I see Dave's point though about the ones who join and head to the classified section to buy or sell something. I have kind of shied away from the sellers who "can't send pictures" of what they are selling. While as Dave pointed out, sellers usually have the item, most of the names that appear on the banned list in the classifieds are there for not sending items that were paid for. If the seller can't provide pictures that look like they were taken at home (not a stock advertising picture), I just keep looking. I don't mean to say that anyone who doesn't have pictures is dishonest; it's just one way I try to cover myself.
A handshake should be as good as a piece of paper.
Russ
Years ago, everything was done face to face, now, with computers, we are selling to people hundreds or thousands of miles away.......temptation and opportunity can lead to dishonesty.
QuoteUsually when I sell/trade something and the buyer tells me the money is on the way, I take their word and immediately mail the item. I realize it is a risk, but so is the money that the buyer has sent
That is the way I've always done it as well - but my last deal went wrong for a Fedora LB. Buyer said he sent MO, so I sent the bow as always. MO never showed - bow did.
"Buyer" did return a couple pm's and one call - claimed he would have the PO start a trace on the MO - have to wait 6 weeks. Have not heard a word in over 2 months - no return of emails or pm and phone is disconnected.
Sad, but all future sales by me to anyone I don't personally know will be Paypal only or no deal - we both have some recourse that way.
Steve
I've sold, bought or traded at least a dozen bows on this site and have never been burned. Nor have I burned anyone else. I always offer a money back guarantee if the buyer doesn't like what I'm selling for any reason.
On trades, we've usually mailed at the same time. When I buy, I send the money, then the seller sends the bow. I do it the same way when I sell. Likewise on lesser items. I have had two folks tell me the check was in the mail when it wasn't. Luckily, in those instances I was holding the item until payment was received. Quite rare, but these weren't new members. Regardless, it won't stop me from continuing to trade via this site. 99.9% of the folks on this site are honest. Can't do any better than that.
I haven't sold anything on Tradgang, but have purchased (seems like I need to buy rather than to sell). Good experiences with purchases. Do your homework/backgroud checks as much as possible. I'm from the old school where a promise or handshake is a person's word. A phone conversation with someone can reveal much. Tradgang is great!
QuoteOriginally posted by Sipsey River:
Years ago, everything was done face to face, now, with computers, we are selling to people hundreds or thousands of miles away.......temptation and opportunity can lead to dishonesty.
This line of thinking ran thru my mind when I started reading this thread. Face it, crooks are crooks and they will spend $10 of effort to steal a $1. I have never been burned here and honestly think some of the people who hang here are top notch. But, I have been burned on other net deals elsewhere. I can get a pretty good read on somebody before entering into a deal. The internet has opened a big avenue for crooks to try to rip folks off. If your dealing with someone you don't know, cover your bases and keep all exchanged info aka: paper trail. I agree that it sucks and it shouldn't be that way but that doesn't change the fact that there are creeps everywhere these days looking to make a quick buck. Use your commen sense when entering into sizable faceless transaction's.
JL
unfortunately, i sold (so i thought) 23 autum orange 2116 arrows and communication was good. I waited for the cheque(thank goodness) but it never came. sent e-mails but no response. repeated e-mails-nothing. I feel bad because i turned down others that were interested. I don't know if he died or what.
At least i still have the arrows. big waste of time though.
Rob
further, it was Dan Frien-(one eye)dlfrein@comcast.net that never replied.(hate to do this to you Dan, but all you had to say was that you were no longer interested).
Rob
All my dealings on Tradgang and the other site have been great but in the real and buisness world and E*** buyer beware. It would be great to have it the way it use to be , milk bottles on the front porch with the money underneath, but sadly those days are gone. I have no problem sending my cash first with regulars on this site. I still go by someones word and if the cash is sent I'll send the item.Off my two Trad sites I'm just the opposite.
I've bought and sold several bows and merchandise on this site and the wall. This has included deals internationally to Canada and France. Never a problem. All my deals have been once funds received items are shipped except one. I just thought that was the standard practice. The one exception was on some wool clothing where I let the seller know the check was in the mail and he immediately sent me the goods. It made me feel good that the guy trusted me that much. Anyway, great site and I love the classifieds and hope a few losers don't spoil it for the rest of us.
We all must continue to do our part here to insure that this site maintains the pillars of integrity it has been built on.
So far all my dealings on this board have been great! You can see by my member number I have been around a while and have done lots of business. I hope and pray that this will always be. There is a different mind set among the true traditionalists that I hope never changes. I am proud to be a part of such a fine group.
Happy Holidays and God Bless everyone!
Ron
I have had the pleasure of considerable selling and buying here, and over 600 transactions on the Auction site.
When I sell it is 'satisfaction guaranteed or money back', and typically I send or get money first.
I do my homework and urge others to do the same.
Like the sign says:
"In God we trust, others pay cash".