How do you prefer to climb a tree up to your stand? I'm interested in the lightest, quietest, fastest way to get up to a lock on stand (no climbers, I have my favorite in that department). I hear alot of good things about the Lone Wolf sticks, but they look small to me. Do you feel safe climbing these. I do use a lineman's belt to climb. Thanks...Mike
That's been my dilema for years now.
For quite some time I've been using Jim Stepps "Stepp Ladder" system of tie on steps and really like them but they are not all that light and not very fast either. The plus is that they are super solid, work in any tree and are hard to see in the woods.
Recently I've been using the Rapid Rails knockoff steel ladder sections and while I like them and they are much quicker than the stepp ladder steps, they are still bulky and heavy.
Here is a picture of my stand with the Stepp Ladder steps in place.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/fall2008014.jpg)
They are kinda hard to see in the pic but that's part of the whole point. I hate steps or ladders with that danged black nylon web strap stuff. I can spot that stuff a mile away in the woods and I expect deer can too. Might not know what it is but if it looks out of place to me, I'm sure it does to the deer too.
These stepps allow you to stand with both feet on one step and if using a lineman belt, it is very easy and comfortable to lean back and tie on the next step.
Always heard good things about Lone Wolf sticks but never used any. I've seen them in the woods and they do look "petite" but that may be an acceptable trade off for the low weight. Kinda like the super tiny hang on stands that weigh 5 or 6 pounds like the little Loc-on ummmm Windwalker isn't it?
Oh, almost forgot, what I REALLY want to try is a good pair of gaffs but they are in the $200 range and honestly, they scare me just a little.
my buddy just came by my house this weekend with his new lw climbing sticks. so we walked out to the woods behind the house to give um a try.
i was amazed at how fast they go up. but even more about how sturdy they are after you step on them. ( they lock to the unbelievable )
here is what we came up with but them.
1) 3 isnt enough. you need 4 pcs to get to the advertised 16 ft.
2) a linesmans belt is a must!! they'er a little hard to attach to the tree when your hanging from 10 feet up.
3) the steps are a little close to the tree. so on a large dia. tree i find that i cant really get my boot where i need to on the peg. i seem to have my toe on the step.
they deff. have there place in the woods. but for me, i dont think ill ever buy them. they cost to much for me to ever leave them in the woods. and i dont want to be bothered putting them up at dark in the am.
but thats just my .02
jamie
Mooseman. How much do you weigh? I believe Lone Wolf has a max weight recommendation for its climbing sticks. I've been using them for several years and like them a lot. Dressed in my heavy hunting duds, I probably go 230. They look more delicate than they are. I haven't bent or broken anything on them yet, and I put some pretty heavy stess on them at times, for example, all my weight on one step. (Yes, I'm in a safety strap should something break.) Easy and quick to put up. Were permissible on public land, I often leave the stand and the top climbing stick in place. To prevent or at least discourage theft, it's very easy to remove or set up the two bottom sticks at the end or beginning of the day, and pretty quiet to boot.
Here's a two thumbs up vote for the Lone Wolf sticks. Man, they set up really fast. The straps on mine are NOT black, but a lighter color like gray or brown which is much preferred. The ability of those steps to flip to the right or left side is a VERY nice feature. They are light to carry in. They are slightly corrugated on the tops of the steps which makes you less likely to slip (take your time). I also took some camo fabric tape and taped the uprights and the things are darn near invisible on the tree.
Like Orion, I weigh maybe 190 but with lots of clothes and a full pack and bow and arrows, I'm probably up there in the 220 range and I feel very safe on both the sticks and the Lone Wolf stand itself.
WAY BETTER than tree steps.
Warren Womack has killed hundreds of deer using gaffs. My Buddy started using them this year and loves them.I`m thinking bout using them next year.RC
I went to the Lone Wolf's this year. I weigh 230 nekkid and I can attest that they are VERY sturdy-the steps and the LW Alpha Elite as well. I agree with going with 4. I had to add a 5ft steel pole to get the height I wanted. So far they haven't been stolen but I am well off any bunny hugger's path anyway. I believe that anyone who really wants a stand or steps is going to get them but I hate using cheap products like tree steps etc. Lower risk with quality and design in my opinion. It is GREAT to be able to just flip the step over to go on the left or right and even place them around the tree to get past branches etc. I also have the Summits which allow you to stand with both feet on another stand. They are steel though so I have them on my fixed stand that was a short walk. :)
I'm with Dave on the Rapid Rails, but started with the original Wayne Prejeans-made aluminum ones...
I like they "nest" with each of 4 being slightly smaller so they lie flat to the stand to pack in.
I like they have the boxed foot so when woods are slippery I don't worry about my foot slipping off or out. and as I get older...with stiff knees and cold feet... I just feel so much safer.
Hunting public area, it's take down each time. I have left them up a few times and take the bottom 2 or 3 ladders and either pack them out or hide them somewhere on the way in.
I liked Jim Stepps system, but tying knots in the dark 15' in the air...nah. Not that savvy with knots!
I have the Lone wolf sticks and they're great. Like someone said for above 15 ft. you'll need 4 steps. 4 sticks weigh 10 lbs ( I think?). I'm talking the full sticks, not the mini's. I also use the Simmons System. It's a hand drill (wood pecker) and 8-10 hardened steel bolts. The hole package weighs no more than 6 lbs. and will get you 20 ft. high. It's very compact and fits in a pocket of my fanny pack.
Kyle
Thanks guys. Where I hunt I couldn't leave them up or they would no longer belong to me. I could probably leave the stand and maybe the top section as most of the slobs around here wouldn't be ambitious enough to find a way up to get em. I like the idea of setting a couple stands before the season and just carrying my "steps" with me. I really like the look of the rapid rails, they look the most comfy and safe to me. I'll have to see if I can find some different types to play with before I buy anything. Thanks again...Mike
I hunt private ground where I can afford to leave stuff in trees. I still however use screw in steps and pad lock all of my stands to the trees. I figure if someone wants to steal my steps at most they are getting 25 bucks from me. But they arent getting my stand short of taking a pair of bolt cutters to the woods and trying to work them through a bike chain at 18'. Screw in steps are a biatch to put in to hardwoods, and sometimes you have to make that sacrifice, but I prefer to find softwood trees to hang them in. The hardwood trees will take a step but it will also cause you to work up a sweat when you first hang them. So if you plan on hanging in some place new each time you go in maybe the steps arent really what you are looking for.
Dustin, I have or have owned a pile of steps myself. Both screw in and strap on. They do the job, but you can't use screw in steps on public land here in PA. I hunt a combo of public/private and want something to use no matter where I end up (sometimes switches mid drive depending on the wind, etc...)
Mike
Never thought i'd say this, but my answer to your question is: the good old fashion screw in tree step.
Ive tried a few climbing stick sets, and they do work well. I like them for pre-hunt setups.
But for walking in to hang and hunt the same day, ya can't beat the screw in steps. Lite, quiet, and quick.
Steve.
The LW sticks go up fast, quiet, and safely with practice. Within three to four hunts you'll be setting your stands in about 10min. The stability once on the tree is what really amazes me, even the crooked ones!
Dave
I have a set of LW sticks & 2 sets of alum rapid rails. I prefer the rr's. Your foot won't slip off sideways & 4 of them are about the same price as 3 LW sticks. They just seem safer to me.
Lippe
I use home made hang on steps. Make them from 4" angle iron. Drill the holes and cut the slot with a torch or saws-all. Run 3/8" x 3" stainless steel lag bolts into the tree with a socket/ratchet wrench. The nice thing is you can take off the bottom steps to 8' high so no one can get in your stand without a ladder or somesuch. It takes me about 2 minutes to hang on the bottom steps and climb the tree. All done very quietly.
(http://fishmilitia.com/forum/uploads/20081203_175229_step3.jpg)
I used pole gaffs for years until a low back operation made it a little 'iffy'. I then went to screw-in steps until an accident this past fall when one pulled out leaving an awfull gash almost in my armpit. I now use climbing sticks for the lock-ons and climbing stands on occasion.
be safe with whatever you choose
Mike,
I see you're about 90 min away from me in Lititz... but I'd be happy to show you the set up I have if you ever even get close...
What I did was buy the 4-pack of aluminum RRails and then use the longest 3. I don't mind a big step at the ground level... then space them closer as I go up...always try to step from top ladder rung to the stand and not UP on the stand.
As stated, the "boxed foot" precludes things slipping out...frost, wet... whatever. I've even had the bottom kick loose on a set of rails and they stay put! My friend allows me to hunt his place and has climbing sticks and the LW stuff... I'm always very careful as I fear that my big rubber boot will slip off sideways..especially when climibing down in the dark all stiff and cold! :)
I get up through Port Royal on way to Centre to hunt periodically...but usually on the fly!
Keep in touch if we can hook up...I think it would help you decide!
:) PM me for a phone #.
I've used screw in steps and strap on steps in the past and this year tried LW sticks. These are by far the best way to go in my opinion. Very sturdy and fast, can be set up in dark easily. Get an extra stick.
mooseman: My opinion only. I think the LW sticks are flat out dangerous. First of all, the step does not stick out far enough from the tree to get a good foot hold. Second if you happen to fall, if your upper hand in hanging onto the section above you, the serrated edge will rip you hand apart. This happened to me in B.C. Twelve stitches later, and $150, I learned my lesson. Currently I am using Chilppewa wedge lock sticks. Greatest thing I have used. Down side they are to heavey. I think the ground blind is the answer. Good luck in your search
Rod, that is my biggest fear. I wear a size 13EE boot and it doesn't look like there is much room on those steps. I did 90% of my hunting from the ground this year, in deadfalls, rock piles, etc... I really liked it, but there is some spots where a treestand is just a better option...Mike
AMERISTEP RAPID RAILS I have tried lots of stuff and these are the best thing ever. I weigh 285 lbs and have had no problems with them very safe, stable, and easy to use.
Used screw in steps for-ever! this year I bought the sticks. about 25 minutes from start to finish with the screw in steps was as fast as I ever hung a stand. with the sticks I put up a stand two days ago in less than 10. for me the sticks are 100 times easier to install, take down or move.
Question, do they still make the aluminum rapid rails? Mine are Ameristep but steel. I believe I've heard they make both?
As I said in my first post, I've been using these lately but they are a bit heavy. Not too bad, but noticable. I will add that they are VERY solid on the trunk. I just wish the steps weren't so close together. My natural step is about 1 1/2 the distance of the rapid rail steps but that's a small peeve at most. My biggest gripe is having to leave them on the ground and going up to hang the second section, climbing back down to get the last section off the ground, going back up the tree, going back down to get the stand... sheesh!
I use the 3 rail sections and carry two of my Stepp Ladder tie on steps. When I get the third rail hung, the stand goes about even or maybe a foot above that and then I tie on one step about seat hight and one about chest hight as I'm standing in the stand. Those last two extra Stepps used as hand holds make a huge difference in my feeling of safety when going in and out of the stand I just don't like to go without them.
I'm a pretty big guy at 6' 2" and about 250# nekid and I feel real secure with either the Stepps or the Rails. The lone wolf setup looks attractive for portability but those itty bitty steps that only stick out on one side of the stick just make me cringe. I wonder if they could make double sided steps for them things? they wouldn't have to rotate at all as they would already be available on both sides and I doubt it would add more than 2 or 3 ounces per step.
p.s. RC, I'm glad you mentioned Warren Womack. I was telling someone else about him using the gaffs and seeing him demo going from the ground to sitting in the tree stand in about 2 minutes but I couldn't remember his name. Where's he been? Don't believe I've seen him post in quite a while.
>>, do they still make the aluminum rapid rails<<
Yes. I saw some at Bass Pro
The aluminum sets come with 4 rails.
http://www.ameristep.com/treestands/7100_rails.html
The steel sets come with 3 rails.
This year I used the Summit Bucksteps. Four of them weigh about 12 pounds and will get you up about 15 feet. They lock into the tree very solid and fast. What I like about them is you can stand with both feet at the same level, this is a big help for someone with arthritic knees like me. Also unlike screw-in steps or the LW steps they are rounded so it would be real hard to hurt yourself on them if you slipped.
Dave: The steps on the LW tree sticks fold out to either side of the stick so they can easily be positioned alternately. If you saw them all on one side of the stick, the person was using them incorrectly.
Dave,
In your picture your tree stand looks like an Ameristep 7300 stand. If it is make sure you have the newer brackets for the strap hook up instead of the jay hooks to lock it to the tree. I had one with the jay hooks and the hook broke. They had a recall on the stand and replaced it with stronger hooks. Jim
I have retired my screw in steps. I used to use Amacker folding steps and they were the easiest to start. Even with a lineman belt setup the wear and tear on my shoulders and elbows started to show by the end of the season and as Rob mentioned it took about 20-30 minutes to setup (at 25'). I've now got two of the Gorilla rails and although they are steel and heavy I only use two and so the weight is not bad and I just hunt lower now (about 12'). With my old API Mag hangon the weight is lighter than even the LW (IMO). The problem is they aren't as quiet as using steps were for me. Haven't found a way to get them setup without making some kind of metal noise. BTW, grey straps.
Orion,
I know that the LW steps rotate to either side. I just wish they'd make a double sided step so you could at least try to stand with both feet at the same level or, if coming down in the dark you don't have to step down the first step with a certain foot or risk being our of sync with all the steps.
Fireflybow,
That stand is a Non Typical Patriot from the original makers of the Rapid Rails. Since API and Ameristep seems to be buying every treestand company they can get their hands on and one of them now sells Rapid Rails, I don't know if they are making the stand now or just the rails. The strap hooks are J type hooks but seem very solid and have never shown sign of straightening out.
By the way, I LOVE that stand. It's the lightest hang on I've ever handled and still has a normal size platform. I think it weighs about 6 pounds if I recall.
Dave,
I saw that Rogers Sporting Goods in Liberty has the aluminum rapid rails for $79 bucks. Not sure if that is three or four but I'm planning on purchasing a set this winter.
Chris
Thanks Chris! That's a great price even for three.
I got my steel rails at Dicks last winter for about $39 for three steel ones.
Also, I tried to google my Non-Typical treestand and sure enough, it's now owned by Ameristep, they don't make that model any more and there IS a voluntary recall. Filled it out and submitted it.
Kinda bummed. I figured on buying another one of the Patriot models but they don't even make it anymore. Nothing even close as far as weight.
I swear, tree stands are getting to be like lawn mowers anymore.... All the good proven companies are getting bought up by the monster corporations making stuff overseas and just sticking the old name on an inferior foreign product. Chaps my hide I tell ya!
Just rechecked the Ameristep website and their price for a set is $167.95 but it doesn't say if it's 3 or 4 sections.
LW sticks. . . I do not need lineman's line to install. . . have never needed it. I go up one time putting sticks as I go. . . last thing is to attach the stand and climb aboard. I set up and take down every sit. Quiet and less than 8 minutes and I am up. 3 sticks gets me 16 ft. to the stand. 4 sticks adds a few extra feet. I should mention I am 6'4", arms like a monkey and my first step is 3' off the ground.
My set up. . .
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/danrudman/fullfoldedLWtreestand.jpg)
$167.95 ????!!!!!!
For Rapid Rails??
I'd keep looking.
just saw Wal-Mart has the Gorilla sections for $10.99 these have steps on both sides and look to be about 36".
Dave can you still get the stepp ladder steps? If so where?
I love the Rapid Rails. Have a set of the aluminum and picked up a 3 ladder steel set at WalMart this year for $50.
Here's a couple tips for making them quieter...
fill them with expandable foam first.
Then get rubber chair cups for the legs(crutch tips).
With a little care you can go up a tree very quietly.
I use the steel set close to the house and for prehanging stands where weight isn't a concern.
I keep the aluminum for hunts away from home where I might be packing all my gear in to hang and hunt.
Should also add that I keep a single screw in step in my pack and will often use it for my first step which allows me to use just 3 sections and still get up around 12 feet.
Dadto2,
Contact Information
Jim Stepp P.O. Box 860 South Casco, Maine 04077 Tel. 207 655 5105
The website has shown that it is undergoing "complete renovation" for at least two years....
My understanding was that Jim is quite the country bumpkin and barely has telephone service where he lives let alone internet. At least that's what Dean Torges used to say I think. I'd try giving him a call and see if he's still in business.
I too like the rapid rails.No place to catch on if you slip or fall.Go up quick and easy and I can hunt off the top rail with a treesuit without needing extra steps in the tree.They are a bit bulkier to carry than the lone wolf but I still prefer them.
Dave,
Last I talked to Wayne Prejeans, the originator and holder of patents on all the Performance Outdoor Products (Patriot/Outfitter stands, rapid rails, etc) he didn't "sell" his company.
He agreed to license Ameristep to make his products. He still works for them designing stuff and doing QC.
I too have the patriot and the outfitter...and 2 sets of 4 RRails. I can't leave stands so I never bought more...but with the swivel seat, the accessory ports, accessory arms they are the only stands I use. All my others collect dust!
The good thing with Ameristep is that with their mass production ability, NonTypical got into Cabellas, and other shops where before, you had to buy direct or at a show Wayne attended.
When I was selling at a retail shop, 2 years ago, we had his RR and they sold a 4pack for $105. They nested and I could easily get 22' with 4 if I stretched a bit at the ground on the first one!
Doc,
That's understandable I guess. I'm sure it's tough for an individual to compete with companies who manufacture on a world scale.
Any idea why the weight went up on the patriot? It's about 50% heavier than it was. The price has come down about that much too.
I have lw and gorrila sticks. Weight wise you can't beat the lw but for amore secure and stable feeling I use the gorrila sticks, like a rock.
Had a funny thought today. Went to Bass Pro shops and looked at the rapid rails (I thnk $107 for 4 aluminum) Looked at several hang on stands for $150 to over $300 then when leaving and outside the store on the way to the parking lot there is a 16 foot tall tripod stand with a swivel bucket seat like out of a bass boat, a ladder all the way up the front, padded rail all the way around up top. This thing was HUGE. Must have been enough metal to make 8 or 10 tree stands in it. Price, $299.
If they can make a 16 foot tripod for $299, why the heck would a couple top of the line climbing sticks and a real good hang on stand cost 4 or 5 hundred bucks??????
I have used just about everything that has come out except for the LW. I hunt strictly public so they are mandatory for me. I used the rapid rail, gorilla, cabela's, JIM Stepp, yada-yada. I found that It needs to be reasonable light, 2-let me ascend the tree one time, hang stand and hunt, 3-be stable, 4-simple (usually dark when putting up, cann't find dropped screws in leaves). In the years of trying differnet things, cabelas aluminum stick ladder has shined, and Jim Stepp's steps.