I was at the archery shop yesterday praticing with my recurve. I'm only shooting about 12 yards.I'm using a 64 pearson cougar with my alum. arrows. A group of 19 year olds come in with their compounds. The first thing I hear is "If dad bought me a bow like that I would throw it away". Dad buy??? Old enough to buy their own. The next thing I hear is "I would let him shoot a good bow , but I would have to show him how to shoot it". I finally got tired of it and left. I just dont understand what they are thinking. I was raised to hold the door for the next person, say thank you and so on..You just dont see it anymore... Sorry guys but I just needed to vent I suppose....Roy
I know how you feel.......believe it or not, Aristotle too complained of the lack of respect of young people in his day. So it has been around for a while-on the bright side at least these 19 year olds are in to shooting bows-even though they may not be our favorite kind of bow.
It like the old saying
" they tear down others, to lift lift themselves up"
I remember starting out when I was 10 years old with a traditional longbow, I really thought it was something but when I move to wheels some years later, I never really thought of myself better than those that shot the traditional bow, just one of the same, still feel the same now, the only difference is, not the equipment, it's the attitude, and mentality that makes the difference. See it is easiest thing in the world to do, find wrong in a person, but it takes a better man to look for the right and focus on that.
Carl
blind one, I commend your restraint...you have some personal toughness that left you walk away.
Kids will be kids, and it is more about being "in" with your other buddies, than anything else. It also shows an immaturity level that is inherent in many teenagers. They were the same fifty years ago, by the way. You just didn't run into the more mature ones that day. One instance...that's all.
I would have had to politely explain the word respect to them and give them a lesson in archery history. I could have bored them into submission with my, "I remember the day" talk.
Then I would have watched them shoot an arrow or two, then asked, "how come those wheels don't turn over at the same time"....and "I see your arrows are kicking to the left off the bow."
;) :knothead: :bigsmyl:
I understand your frustration. But, it's a rare 19-year old that has the maturity and character to appreciate the challenges of traditional archery. Sure it would be nice if they kept their ignorance a little quieter, but then again it was already said that kids do most of what they do for the sake of their buddies. Don't let some immature kids spoil your enjoyment.
We know we have "matured" sufficiently when we start sentences with "kids today.." and when the lessons of our Fathers/Gradfather's start making real sense... 20 years later! LOL.
Dont get me wrong, I would have helped any of them if they had asked. I have the best of the best in my compounds. I was happy they are shooting. It just seemed like that because I was in my comfortable jeans(the ones that I keep saving after the girlfiends cleaning spree)and shooting older equipment that I knew nothing. I started thinking that if I was just a kid starting out with an old bow that they would have made him or her not want to shoot because of their old stuff.It was just their attitude I guess..
We know we have "matured" sufficiently when we start sentences with "kids today.." and when the lessons of our Fathers/Gradfather's start making real sense... 20 years later! LOL.
Wow!!!!
Theres a true statement right there!!
They'll grow up to it one day when their wheel bows don't give the pleasure that they used to.
My wife (who shoots a recurve) had to deal with another women who was bragging about how great she is with her compound and claims she never misses. I told my wife to ask her next time where the "fun" or "challenge" is in that.
Dang I can barely remember 19 or 30 for that matter. But I do remember how "stupid" my dad was when I was that age and how much more I knew. I also remember that when I was about 25 or so that it seemed that the old man had really got smart in just a few years. Amazing!!
I pleased that they are shooting instead of the 100 things they could be doing and I think maybe a little friendly banter could have defused the situation.
Maybe even a challenge for them to try and shoot the antique bow.
Mike
At least they are shooting and not out destroying something. Normally I would say its just the arrogance of youth but more often I see adults showing the same levels of disrespect for each other. (And not just as it relates to trad archery)
QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:
Dang I can barely remember 19 or 30 for that matter. But I do remember how "stupid" my dad was when I was that age and how much more I knew. I also remember that when I was about 25 or so that it seemed that the old man had really got smart in just a few years. Amazing!!
Mike
My dad and I laugh about the same thing. He sure got a lot smarter when I hit my early 20's. :rolleyes:
Right or wrong I would have seen that as a challenge and invited them to shoot some rolling targets then maybe ask if they would like to try shooting some of the same disks out of the air. This happened to me once, my Nephew and I were using a guys field for practice and he being a teenager took one look at my little vinemaple "Indian" bow and you could see a sardonic expression come over his face as if to say "yeah right". He came out of his garage to watch us put arrow after arrow in both rolled and thrown disks and even know he was a tech bow guy who like to kill deer or try to kill then at 100 plus yards he would at least have some respect for my lowly primitive bow
I think the question should be is Why didnt the parents teach these kids to respect?...
i would have to agree with you jacobsladder, being of the younger generation myself, I think alot of the disrespect comes from younger people not being taught to respect others by their parents, whether they be your elder or not. being brought up to respect people the ones that arent stand out like sore thumbs, and unfortunately cause others to label all "young" people and disrespectful
Yep, jacobsladder has hit it right on the head. I guarantee that the teenagers parents lack respect also. I am around kids all the time. Little League Manager and Cubmaster. I personally feel an obligation to tell the kids to show some respect. I have stood up for parents when their kids showed them disrespect and the parents let them get away with it. That's why I'm Cubmaster.
been there before myself. as i walked by them leaving i chose to invite the "boys" (more or less men to me) to come and shoot with me someday when they had finally graduated from their "bow with training wheels" and we could have some real fun. a good laugh always seems to lighten things up and get the old, fun stories rolling.
The respectful ones never really get noticed...I think this is one reason people are always suprised by the lack of respect in a younger generation. The impression that 20% leave ruins it for the other 80%.
If it makes you feel better I was in "the shop" last year at 22 years of age. There was a guy shooting a longbow. He was hitting 2" dots at 20 yards. I, not so subtly, asked for him to help me out with my compound shooting. He was more than happy.
Turns out he was really just trying to "learn" this new bow. :eek:
I work with High School age students quite a bit. FFA, Junior Conservation Council, etc. I know these young people well.
When I am around town, the students that I see being rude or disrespectful, are never the ones involved in these organizations. I rarely see the involved students being a nuisance.
I think young people need something important to do to help them become adults. When I was at that age we didn't have much time to hang out and get in trouble. We had ground to plow or cows to work. The few friends I had that were not farming had joined the military.
Now... I'm not saying you have to be a farmer or soldier to grow-up. Just something important to do where you have to grow into responsibility is good thing. My $.02.
OkKeith
Let me shed a little laughter on this matter. I seen an elderly man take his longbow into a shop at an archery shoot and the employee behind the counter laughed when the guy asked for some help with string wax. The employee said you need a new bow and laughed (not in a hurtful matter though) as did the customer. After talking, the longbow owner made a bet with the employee saying that his bow can shoot better than the employees Mathews ever thought about. Of coarse the employee took the guy up on the bet and the longbow owner said you have to what I do and shoot from where I shoot at 15 yards and the employee laughed. The elderly gentleman re-strung his longbow and threw it into the air about 10 feet and then picked it up and shot a near dead-center 12. The employee wouldn't through his Mathews into the air. So I guess you know who won the bet.
Just a little story I thought you might like.
Since I teach high school biology, coached football, basketball, baseball, and track, and have four kids of my own (ages 8mon - 18yrs), I'll say a few words.
First, ALL kids and adults are different - even if they are raised in the same environment. Sure there are some with bad attitudes and lack respect for others but please don't let those overshadow the ones that that do. Those kids are the ones we should be reaching out to and teaching and setting positive examples for - not getting irritated or upset - their brain damaged at that age anyhow. Generally, those kids want and need it from someone and who better than those of us that post on this site.
Respect is taught at the same time potty training is going on.
Rare is the person who can turn back the clock, and LEARN respect.
Well all I can really say is look around at many of the people your own age. Just walk in any hunting shop and talk to people. Would you respect them? I just think too many older folks expect to be respected just because they didn't die before forty or they had kids. It's really not that big of an accomplishment.
If you want respect do something to earn it is what I always say. I won't lie. I get hit with the "you have no respect" argument alot. And it's usually because they disrespected me first and were astonished I had the audacity to say something back. They seem quite dumbfounded that you would do something besides stand there and let them talk down to you.
It's amazing the losers who have lives that amounted to nothing and clearly made about every wrong mistake you can make in life will stand there and lecture you about subjects they know nothing about. If you're not at that age you just don't know. I hear stuff like: "You know what you should do? Join the military." Just out of nowhere. Bad ideas from idiots. I hear them all the time. Everyone thinks they know something.
Not saying these kids weren't disrespectful, or that you did anything wrong. Just to the question of "why do kids today have no respect?" I'd just have to retort "How many adults today actually deserve it?"
Not to mention every time someone brings up how mature they are as a personal quality I give it about an hour before they do something incredibly childish. It gets known as "stubborn" or "set in his ways" once you reach a certain age and nobody is allowed to say anything about it; but I'm not necessarily convinced growing up actually exists.
I meet at least as many hairy, old, and bald children as I do adults, and its got less to do with age than personality more times than not.
Im only 18 but where im from we were taught manners, to be gentlemanly, and respect people. I hate it when my peers act like they dont have good sense, but like they say, "common sense isnt all that common." Like OkKeith said, young people involved in clubs and organizations are usually respectful and become honest, decent citizens. I was in FFA and it taught me a lot about life and how to act. Working on a dairy also made me have the utmost respect for workin folks, because im in the daily grind too. just my thoughts....
Pygmy,
I'll agree that there ARE some people who have many years under their belts..who haven't "earned" my respect in any sense of the word. But I've not earned theirs either. So it a "common courtesy" to assume and give the respect until you know otherwise.
Something that really changed my view on things just a few months ago:
A guy in his late 30s was telling a story about how he was in a car with a bunch of High Schoolers. They started giving the old man in front of them a hard time for driving slow. Saying this and that about how he shouldn't even be aloud to drive if he's scared to drive over 50mph. The guy in his mid thirties said that that man might very well have driven a tank into the heart of Nazi Germany...he can drive his Lincoln on "your" road however he well pleases.
That one hurt, been guilty of it myself a few times.
Point is where taught to *assume* a man has done something to be respected for by the time he's older-ish. I know there are exceptions...but I think they're a lot fewer-in-between than we think sometimes.
well said Soilarch.... I don't know any of you that well...but I can guarantee that if you walk up to my 13 year old son you will be respected.... respected whether you deserve it or not..... I could care less if you deserve respect or not...what is important is that my boy acts tastefully and appropriate..
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(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/jacobsladdergrice/100_4685.jpg)
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It's always the bad ones we remember or that stick-out causing us to overlook or not notice how many good ones there really are.
Take a kid hunting and earn respect for a lifetime.
I understand your point of view. Many kids are a pain in the butt, but there are still some good ones. Check out the post about the 9 point buck that a kid named Dylan shot this last weekend. It is on the top of the pow wow posts. His daddy has raised a good kid and highly respectful. I have met this kid and he is one of the good ones. He also has some good luck to boot!
-Charlie
Very true Vermonster! Take a kid hunting with traditional gear.... You not only earn respect, but teach the child how to hunt respectfully!
:thumbsup:
That's why lions eat there young :saywhat:
I'm 17 and I'm respectful towards others, all these post on here about people talking down to trad archers had me hesitant about the responses I would get at the local compound shop when I asked for a string, everyone in there complimented me on my beautiful bow and I found out later when I went back tht one of the guys in there started shooting recurves, I will agree that some kids these days dont show a lot of respect, but not all of us are like that
honestly, before I got into tradgang, I was kind of disrespectful brat, no joke, would talk back to my parents every now and then and didn't even care, did worse stuff too, after seeing all the kind acts everyone here did for each other, showing respect to one another and passing down knowledge taught me that I should be more respectful towards adults and the rest of society.
Deadpool! good for you bud.. :campfire:
I think I would have somehow coaxed them by using their immature overblown egos to your advantage to shoot your bow and equipment. I'm sure you would be looked at with new respect.
I got my friend and his son (both very polite men) who are dedicated high tech wheel bow shooters to shoot my recurves one evening. They actually enjoyed it but not to the point they switched parties. But they were impressed how well they shot.
I came home from hunting tonight and had a message. It was one of the kids from the shop.He got my number from another person there. He apologized for the way he and his friends acted. He asked if we could shoot together sometime. I'm meeting him there tomorrow to do some shooting. I have nothing but respect for him. It took alot of courage for him to do what he did. This is going to be fun to help him anyway I can...Roy
bline one thats great news about the kid calling you...
As I have gotten older I've learned to "lead by example".. Shoot with that kid and I bet before long some of the others will want to shoot as well.. By the end at least one of those kids will pick up a trad bow...
:notworthy:
Things that would send me behind the woodshed...
Not saying ma'am or sir, entering a building before a lady, not wearing a shirt to the dinner table, wearing a hat at the dinner table, using harsh langauge in the presence of a lady... it was a long list haha
I'm 25 and I think Maw-maw could still give me a run for my money if I didn't act like a Southern Gent.
Manners and respect are taught not learned.
Its a little dissapointing not seeing guys open car doors for the honeys anymore. I guess when you just push a button to unlock it takes the romance out of it or something.
Glad the kid called, made a new friend.
i ment "their honeys" not "the honeys" oh crap here comes maw maw
I'll never forget, I was walking in to a store a while back and held the door for an older gentleman, As i walked away he stopped me and asked why i done that, I said what, He stated hold that door for me, I told him no reason really i guess i try to hold the door for everybody, Never really thought about it, He patted me on the back and said God bless you, He said that is a rare occasson for that to happen, I'm 35 and that tells you something about life and times now, So much has changed since i was a child, Imagine 30 years from now..
QuoteOriginally posted by nightowl1:
Things that would send me behind the woodshed...
I'm 25 and I think Maw-maw could still give me a run for my money if I didn't act like a Southern Gent.
Reminds me of a funny story my pastor back home tells. He's in his early 50s. When he was dating his now wife in H.S. he had a "sociology" assignment. He figured he'd do it at her families house when they all went there for lunch after church. Never found out exactly what he said or did, but her 5'2" mom had him ran out the house with a broomstick before he could ever explain things. :D
Maybe we should do away with these new plastic-handled "swiffers" and go back to good ole 1" oak broomsticks :knothead:
Cut em some slack. Realize these boys are receiving very little blood flow to their brains. Other, more bloodthirsty body parts are running the show for the next five or six years. I have a half dozen of them working for me at the moment and I hear your pain though!
I've met very few bad kids, but a whole slew of bad parents.
I know disrespect is annoying, but remember, someone showed them how to behav ethat way. Talking to them and pointing out problems is the only way most kids will ever change.
QuoteI came home from hunting tonight and had a message. It was one of the kids from the shop.He got my number from another person there. He apologized for the way he and his friends acted. He asked if we could shoot together sometime. I'm meeting him there tomorrow to do some shooting. I have nothing but respect for him. It took alot of courage for him to do what he did. This is going to be fun to help him anyway I can...Roy
Good on ya!
fellows, try being a high school biology teacher. most could care less until the word sex is mentioned in any shape or form. then they're like beavis and butthead. there is a severe lack of what my grandmother called "home training" running rampant in the teenage population these days. the sad thing is when i call a parent in for a meeting, then it's like a shock when i tell them their kids aren't acting like angles.
My grandkids say mam and sir. i have seen alot lately who do not though.
Oh I didn't mean you shouldn't respect people. You gotta give respect to get respect and thats as old as time. I was just saying it's gotta go both ways.
I'm in my mid twenties and I can see both sides. And I very clearly remember all the morons pumping gas or selling fishing bait that want to lecture you. About anything too, nothing in particular. I honestly think its a self esteem issue though. Many people that didn't have much happen for them get jealous in one form or another that someone half of their has so much ahead of them. It's got to be an insecure feeling for some people in that situation.
Not long ago I was with a friend who is a politicians aid among other things, makes over a hundred grand a year, and has a law degree from a major college. And he smiled politely while some ignorant hick was lecturing him about politics. I assure you my friend knows lightyears more about political issues than he does, which is why my friend didn't converse with him, just wait until he was done. He had to just smile politely until the guy was done talking for a considerable amount of time. Me. I'd have told him to shut up and he's ignorant. But thats why I get told I'm disrespectful from time to time.
But I can defintely see how disrespectful so many suburbanite brats are. Everything handed to them in life and not only do they think its normal they think they deserve it. No worthwhile personality has ever come from such life entitlement. And it goes across the line, there are HORRIBLY disrespectful kids where I live in New Orleans. Disrespectful to the point they'll rob you at gunpoint if you know what I mean. But I was really just playing Devils Advocate. I just didn't want it to be a one sided argument against kids. I was just saying I meet an AWFUL lot of immature people who are well past the crescendo of life.
Kids? What about adults? Heck, all you have to do is visit some of the other web sites to see what today's kid's problems are. Their problems are stemming from the adults that have no respect for others. Just look at the examples some of these adults are setting by acting worse than kids.
I hold doors and sir/ma'am because my ancestors would come back to get me otherwise. So do my children. A few years back my father in law who is a minister held a door for a lady that was going into the hospital to visit someone. She went to the director got his info and sued him. She said by doing that he implied she was of the weaker sex. He was in deep....anyway she finally listened to reason and dropped the suit.
I used to shoot at a range where a lot of comments were made about my traditional gear. Most of it was joking - very little true disrespect. Funny thing is, they almost always wanted to try out my longbow. Some of them developed a genuine appreciation for the work necessary to become proficient with the "old stuff". Some of these encounters may be opportunities to infect new people with trad fever.
Benha...sounds like another sewer person to me. That's rediculous. It's like the guy who tried to sue mcDonalds for making him FAT..yeah right or the woman who tried to sue Tim Hortons for the hot coffee she spilt on herself.....don't ppl want HOT coffee.
NUTS :banghead:
Jer Bear
Jerry he still has the incident on file at the hospital. Shame.
Spankings have been missing from the household for quite some time.