Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: matt schuster on November 08, 2008, 10:43:00 AM
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This post may say more about me than about hunters, but I watched horn porn this morning - which is rare, because I don't have tv at my cabin, and really came to the realization that I honestly don't care to be around most big-game hunters. I don't have that much in common with them and find myself increasingly irritated at the antlers-are-everything-I-wanna-be-on-tv-always-looking-for-an-edge attitude of a lot of them. Of course, I am always willing to talk to anyone about bowhunting with a traditional bow and try to fire up as many folks as I can about our sport and I don't attack anyone - I usually just disassociate myself. Am I just getting old & crotchety or does anyone else feel like this.
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Matt,
I understand what you mean. Some of the "big time hunters" are so full of themselves it's almost redicules. I'm sure you don't want this to turn into a name bashing thread so I won't start it. But it seems that it's all about the trophy and not about the hunt anymore. I work with a guy who hunts and told me he has killed deer but never gutted one and doesn't know how. It's getting to be like the gameboy generation that knows everything about football but has never stepped onto a field. I have my small group of friends that go to the U.P. every fall to hunt. We don't kill a lot of deer, but we enjoy it just the same. I enjoy the memories made mostly, if I get something it's just iceing.
Dave
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"Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company."
George Washington (1732 - 1799)
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You're old and crotchety....and I feel the same way as you do! :bigsmyl:
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Dave - you are right, we don't need to get specific. It is funny how so many folks seem to want to kill something big not for the challenge or the memories, but so they might become "famous" - at least for a moment. We had a guy down here in Georgia kill a big deer and then started trying to sell calendars and other stuff showing him and his deer. His buddies got so jealous they turned him in because he had already killed his limit of bucks before shooting the monster. Funny stuff.
Mark . . lol - you're right and I think I'm getting worse!!
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I must be odd too. I for one have never had the urge to jump and yell once I've killed something. To me, it's always been a time to show the animal some respect and give thanks.
That's probably why I'll never be paid to endorse anyones products. :rolleyes:
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I tried to watch some of those shows again last week one day when the weather was awful. The shows were more awful than the weather, and my conclusion was that they were all coreographed by the same studio: Show all the correct logos on the binos, bows and camo; whisper to the camera in the tree that "we've seen some real shooters in this area"; shoot a buck and get half-arrow penetration; exclaim, "great hit...what a hunt"; high five the cameraman and say, "yes....yes....yes" and pump your fist. They really ought to get Viagra to sponsor them. :saywhat:
I try to distance myself from all but my proteges during this time of year. That stuff doesn't resemble what I think hunting entails.
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Bill,
I agree! :thumbsup:
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Interesting thoughts Matt. Most of the time I enjoy sharing my hunts with one or more partners. But I am getting more and more fussy about who I want to spend time with. Hunting partners or camp mates can sure make or break a trip, regardless of how good or bad the hunting may be. I would much rather spend time on a tough hunt with someone I enjoy being around rather than on a great hunt with a jerk.
I haven't spent any time with TV type guys, and don't get that channel anymore, but from what I have seen of those shows I really doubt I would want to hunt with most of them.
One thing I can say is that I've shared some camps with some really great people that I have met here on Trad Gang and am really struggling to think of any I wouldn't hunt with again. I think it has something to do with the fact that people drawn to traditional archery tend to be ethical and motivated by much more than just killing big animals.
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I agree...I would like to spend time with any of you guys....you might not feel the same towards me though.
I still get a rush though when I take a shot...sorry....I don't kill many things generally, but I go out just the same. If I take a ptarmigan it's a good day, but I will only take one for supper or lunch
I find the getting close the most exciting part. My last bear was at 25 feet. Took me 2 hours to get that close. Then when he was close...no shot. Patience led to the shot. It was over quickly and yes I was proud and he is a beautiful bear. I think I was proud because it was fair chase. In that 2 hours he had plenty of time to wind me...see me...or just wander away.
Don't think that's all bad though
Jer Bear
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Aside from horn porn, which is disgusting and childish, like a bunch of physically grown-up bullies permanently stuck in teenage neoteny and deep personal insecurity. Aside from those pathetic clowns, whether I enjoy the company of other hunters depends on how we define "most" in your question. If I go to the local wheelie bow or rifle sporting goods shop before or during big game seasons, it's so disgusting I can't get out of there fast enough. One good friend used to manage such a place, a good job he enjoyed, but had to quit due to his growing disgust with what seems a growing Whack 'em and Stack 'em mentality. It's like the average Joe hunter aspires to nothing more than being a horn porn star himself. Ah, but when we move to Milt Beens' Wildcat Canyon trad archery shop ... that's where old friends and new meet. Most of my friends are trad bowhunters. Certainly, not all trad hunters are great people, some sick few even indulge in canned killing behind high fences. Nor are all training-wheelers or rifle hunters weak-minded neurotics. In fact, when I've guided in a wilderness elk camp for rifle hunters I've almost always enjoyed those folks. The primary difference between trads and others is our dedication to the entire sport in the big picture, including honest respect for the game and appreciation for the need to protect habitat -- not just gear, certainly not horn porn, but the whole experience, doing as much of it ourselves as possible. Deep committment. We don't need more hunters, we need better hunters. This is not elitism, but a clearly observable and measurable reality. So yes, I do enjoy the company of "most" hunters, because the only hunters I hang with are either trad bowhunters or trad-minded hunters of other weapons choice. Now quit yakking and go chose them whitetails! dave
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There is probably only 1 or 2 close bowhunting friends that I even talk with about hunting during the season. We do get together for a couple of hunts during the season, but I thoroughly enjoy hunting by myself. I in no way consider myself better than anyone else who chooses to gun hunt or whatever. It's just seems like I don't have much in common with them. Of course, my wife always says I'm just anti-social. As far as hunting shows go, I used to watch Fred Eichler's show, but he rarely shows up on the new episodes. Guess he's too busy.
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Do you enjoy being around most hunters?
NOPE!!!
"Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company."
George Washington (1732 - 1799)
I wholeheartely agree
I have never been a "AAA" person.
I think I will just watch Vid's from Buff and others here.
Blueline
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there are VERY, VERY few others who i enjoy to be around and hunt with. i think think of 4 who i hunt with and 2 that i ENJOY hunting with. this is not counting any Trad Gang hunts becouse i enjoy the company of everyone then!
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definitely not.
I'd like to have some hunting friends but honestly I'm scared of who might show up.
Not that I'm saying I'm so great. Different strokes for different folks. I'm sure most of them would like to hunt with me about as much as I'd like to hunt with them.
But no, it makes me hesitant to look for leases too.
I hope it doesn't come across as bashing. I'm not against these people even if I don't like most of them. We are all in the woods for different reasons and my reasons are simply too different from theirs in too many ways for us to gel. But put me in a room with a handful of other hunters and I'll probably be clawing at the door within a half hour.
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Good hunting partners are few and far between. If you have or ever had a good one, cherish his company.
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I never use to feel that way until I hunted with a guy that talked a little wierd and handled himself in a crotchety manner.... :)
in all honesty, I do love to hunt for big trophy class animals in whatever spiecies I hunt but I also like to spend this time with company that I like to be around.
I also tend to get a little excited when myself or a hunting partner get something that would be considered trophy class.
So to answer your ?, I think your observation are right on track and comman.... but it has more to do with comman interest of the hunting partners and the hunting styles than the hunting itself.
Personaly I think these hunting shows are showing to much of the in your face style of hunting (techno-wack'em and stack'em stuff) and it is time for the less in your face style of hunting personalities to step up to the plate or should I say camera and produce more hunting shows. This is a little more difficult for the trad guys because our tools of the trade rely more on woodmanship than manufactured stuff. Its know secret when you watch the programing that the companies that produce this manufactured junk I mean stuff are the ones putting up the money to produce the shows.
So:
Yes, I agree
Yes, your crotchety
No, horn in not porn
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I kinda Pick My Battles anymore!! Some Good, Some Not-So Good!
Interesting because about 4 Years Ago, my Son and I were Just tooling Along,When He Spots a Deer "Check Station", and ALL of the Trucks. I asked him if he would like to go back "YEAH DAD!! CAN WE??" I couldnt Say NO to That Face!!
We sat there or wandered around the Hunters and Their Prizes. He had "Petted" almost ALL of the Deer.
My Feets were getting Cold and he had a Rather Stern Look on His Face, so we Moseyed on Home. Then He Looks ME Dead In the Eye,and Says "If I Ever Get A Good Deer, I Sure Wont Carry On Like Those Guys Did, its Disrespectful For Those Fine Animals".
"Out of the Mouths of Babes" Talk about Old Dad Swelling Up with Pride!! He Might have been 13 at the Time, and Was Just Sickened By The Way Grown Men had Acted. I DO Love That Young Man!!
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YES I DO!!!!!
I must REALLY be the "odd one" because I enjoy EVERYONES company!!!!!
I have friends who Bowhunt,(with both tradtional and compound bows)Gun hunt,Turkey hunt(with both bow and shotgun,I even have a friend who will ONLY turkey hunt with his compound)Rabbit and Squirrel hunt,Bird hunt with dogs,etc.
It has been my experiance that persons of admirable qualities,carry those qualities over into hunting and everything else that they do also.
If a person is a turd,I don't hunt with them!!!!!
(I don't associate with them either)
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The best bowhunters I know and hunt with are salt of the earth souls who have a passion for archery and bowhunting and work bloody hard at what they do .
I think that Swamp Pygmy has it right in saying we are all in the bush for differant reasons . In my veiw the line between shooters [ only interested in kill and trophy ]and hunters has become blurred and it appears to me that the general public who see the video's and TV shows you speak of do not know the differance .
regards Jacko
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I cant blame those big time folks on TV cause if I could make a living hunting Id be doing it in a second.The commercialization of hunting diminishes the true spirit of hunting, to me anyway but lets be honest we'd all be doing it if they were paying us 7 figures and allowing us to hunt around the world free of charge.I personally like all types of hunters, not all hunters but all types of hunters.Lets face it there are turd birds in all demographics.Most of my favorite people just happen to be trad hunters so I guess its people that we find commonality with that we like to be around .
Izzy
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depends on the hunters sometimes the shared memories are the best but in the right company.
"persons of admirable qualities,carry those qualities over into hunting and everything else that they do also" i agree
i was all set to become a PH (professional hunter) and guide in South Africa but the more time i spent around ph's especially BIG 5 ph's the more i disliked them. Friendly in front of the hunters putting down the money, but very disrespectful behind there backs, mostly know it all heavy EGO driven idiots. didn't want any association with them. its a real shame
its always nice to get a big trophy but its not everything
time spent with good hunting partners and friends is priceless.
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Shakes,
You should be proud.
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Interesting topic. I love to hunt and I love to talk hunting, but only with people that enjoy hunting for the same reasons that I do. There are a lot of people on this site that I have come to respect and I think I would like to hunt with. However, there are only a few "celebrities" that I feel the same way about.
In social situations I find that I would rather talk to non-hunters or even anti-hunters about hunting than a "hunter" that doesn't enjoy hunting for the reasons that I think they should. For me, it is not about a weapon or a method. It is about respect and appreciation.
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"Am I getting old and crotchety"
I prefer to thingk of it more as mature and grounded. You are not alone, I feel very much the same way. I cannot stand to watch those shows either.
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I am defintely anti -social when it comes to hunting. I've just heard to many dumb comments regarding my choice to hunt most of my game with a longbow. I do have a good friend /hunting partner who I regularly share the woods with. He shoots a compound bow,but I got him to shoot 3d with a recurve last year, I will eventually turn him the right direction. LOL. Morally, ethically, politically and religously are views are dead on. I do get some trad videos, and watch them.
I do try and take a mature buck every year. Killed an 8 pt last weekend, that the TWRA bioligist aged 4.5 yrs old, that makes me proud.
But honestly, I was shaking like a leaf when I dropped the string on a big doe opening weekend.
If I could afford to chase trophies, I probably would.Filling the freezer is more important to me, then I horn hunt as a challenge.
Raisin 3 kids in this economy, Im happy to afford gas to drive to the TWRA refuges on the weekends!! All the places I hunt are bow only outside of the few draw hunts.
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I haven't watched TV for over five years, so I don't know the shows. However I bought one of the videos on sale awhile back, and not ten minutes into it I threw it in the trash. It just made me sad, and I could almost see how the anti's that weren't raised in outdoor traditions get there attitudes. I can watch "Primal Dreams" over and over, and the TG video's are great. It's just the attitudes on the other's. I feel the same about the Bass tournaments. Seems sad to take an outdoor recreational activity and turn it into a gross competitive spectacle. No offense meant to anyone who anjoys that type of thing. I have no friends or family around so I do everything alone, but if I had a choice I'd surely enjoy hunting with trad people. I'm also sure most wheelie hunter's are cool, I just don't know any. It's just too bad the company's that make the gear have degraded everything for marketing purposes.
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I hunt alone 99% of the time. I hunt with a longbow and on the ground so most of the bowhunters I know would not go with me if I wanted them to. And I don't. They look at a kill as what makes a good hunt. I think being in the woods is a good hunt.
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Dang Matt , you've been OLD and Crotchety for 10 years!!!!!
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Originally posted by Blackhawk:
"Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company."
George Washington (1732 - 1799)
My feelings exactly.
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Originally posted by Dave2old:
This is not elitism, but a clearly observable and measurable reality.
I disagree, it is elitism. I love the realm of trad and the mindset that goes along with it but I HATE a lot of the comments I see on hear. The "training wheelie" comments are among the top. I dont hunt with a compound bow anymore but it was a personal choice, not because im better than all the guys that do. The mindset I have I had with a compound a shotgun a rifle a muzzeloader ect. I think a lot of the talk on hear is just as bad as the talk at the local gun shops with all the "whack em stack em" types. Just my opinion, but everytime I read comments like this it turns my stomach. We are all hunters and we all stand for the same basic rights. there are to many people out there trying to take or limit those rights and everytime we fight amongst ourselves they gain another inch.
my .02
--c--
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I like to hunt with big fellas that can drag deer and pigs a long way. I don`t have to like`m.lol
Actually there are very few folks I hunt with . The ones I hunt with the most love it or they would`nt put up with me.Now Bald guys they....Rc
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Do I like other hunters?
Heck, I fell in love with a hunter once.
Our time together was always a good time, she never failed to be ready to go on time, never complained about the weather, didnt care where we hunted, traveled out of state with me several times in pursuit of several different species, worked her tail off on wounded game, always searched for new opportunities, she actually lured me away from trad bowhunting and challenged me to hunt other critters for a couple of years. I learned alot from her, but taught her very little.
I actually missed several white-tail ruts because of her. She was the only hunting partrner I've ever had that took hunting as serious as I do. Hunting was as much a part of her life as it is mine. I've had other hunting buddies, but mostly weekend warriors. I don't hunt with them anymore either.
My hunting partner was a Black Lab my wife named "Shadow" for appropriate reasons. She's been gone for about 3 years now and I have reimursed myself in bowhunting. For me, It's a solitary activity which suits me well.
LOL, I do have a new pup that is showing real promise, so I may enjoy hunting with another "hunter" some day.
:bigsmyl:
Trap
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I agree with Matt. Many hunters seem to feel successful only if they kill the monster buck and almost sound apologetic when take "only a little doe". Any deer taken leagally and ethically is a trophy, but the pride to me is better expressed with the quiet feeling that I really had a good time today. A kill is not even necessary to get that good feeling. Just this morning I hunted a ground blind that I set up last week. Two does approached - one of them only 6 or 7 yards from me. I didn't even raised the bow but sat totally fascinated by wathing them check out the blind. No, a lot of "show" is not needed to make a hunt stand out. I guess I'll never be featured on the TV screen, but like a lot of the guys on this forum I prefer a simple hunt with a few good guys.
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Since I moved to Texas from Alaska, I pretty much hunt alone. I don't know any trad hunters here yet. I was not into trad archery when I lived up North....I hunted with a rifle and my hunting partner was 8 years older than myself. He had been hunting up there for 17 tears before I came along. His ways were old school, he was patient & determined at the same time. He was never in a hurry and there was purpose in everything he did. We hunted on foot and back packed everywhere we hunted. To say the least, this guy took me to school. He and I went on an Elk hunt 3 yrs ago in Idaho. Sad to say, I broke my ankle the day before the season ended and had to be medivaced out. I was looking forward to having the chance to hunt with him again. I Haven't seen him since but we do speak over the phone once a month and talk hunting. I have hunted with a few people here but really have not enjoyed their company.
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On the previous post I meant to say before the season opened!
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and really came to the realization that I honestly don't care to be around most big-game hunters. I don't have that much in common with them and find myself increasingly irritated at the antlers-are-everything-I-wanna-be-on-tv-always-looking-for-an-edge attitude of a lot of them. Of course, I am always willing to talk to anyone about bowhunting with a traditional bow and try to fire up as many folks as I can about our sport and I don't attack anyone - I usually just disassociate myself. Am I just getting old & crotchety or does anyone else feel like this.
I know what you mean...and I do too.
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Well, I ain't got no friends cept for Killy... And I can't even get her to make a pie for me anymore. So I guess I hunt mostly solo. Nobody will put up with me.
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Originally posted by George D. Stout:
They really ought to get Viagra to sponsor them.
One of those spew-coffee-on-the-keyboard moments there George, good one!
I have had it from several partial and impartial observers that I am a grouchy old curmudgeon. Whether folks hunt for horn scores, mature animals, with high tech or limiting equipment, are just are just good ol' meat hunters - its all good. Its lack of humility that gets to me. God save me from arrogance, mine and others.
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It's the person's inner soul that equates to their humility or ego not what they hunt with. I'd hunt with anyone of like minded soul...Doc
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Interesting question. I wont generalize by saying "most hunters" but I definitely do not like to hunt with people that do not respect the game they pursue and/or are a liability in the woods (i.e. not knowing whats behind their targets, taking shots no matter what, willfully trespassing, etc.).
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I think it is on a case by case basis. For the past 30 years I have generally preferred to hunt alone, but I have a few friends that I occasionally get together with, Deadbolt being one of them. Even if I like someone as a person I will usually go hunting alone just because I enjoy it. I really have never been a trophy hunter, but don't understand animosity directed at those that choose to limit their shots to trophy class animals. That leaves more lesser animals for you, right? I also don't understand why some trophy hunters that have shot many animals get so incredibly excited and say things like 'YES,YES, YES!' after the shot. To me it's kinda like a running back or receiver doing a celebration dance after scoring a touchdown. Act like you've been there before. I think if you want a hunting partner you need to find someone with similar outlook and goals as you have. That being said, the best hunting partners to me are the ones you see when you leave the vehicle and don't see again til after you are done hunting. So I guess someone who is always on-time and not a pompous #$% would be the best criteria for a hunting partner for me.
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"Do you enjoy being around most hunters?"
Yes, I do, more so than when I was younger, and hunted solo. I find the experience of making new friends, learning new things from others, and sharing hunting memories to be more of the hunt.
Do I enjoy every hunter, no, just as I don't enjoy everyone, nor, does everyone enjoy being with me.
Attitudes towards hunting can, and always will be different. Regardless, we all all hunters, all contribute to our sport, whether you feel the contribution is good or bad, due to our values and beliefs.
We all have different characteristics, and personalities, that make us who we are, just like the animals we hunt and pursue. Sometimes we hunt a species of animal, and don't enjoy that type of hunting, just like sometimes we are around some people, and don't enjoy their company.
However, and I close with these questions? If we don't associate with all types of hunters, who will introduce them to traditional hunting and traditional values?
How will they see the traditional hunter in action, and hear of his/her beliefs, if no one is there for him to see the traditional walk and hear the traditional talk?
Many a person has been transformed by another person's walk and talk.
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I can agree with some of the points and I can agree with some of the terminology that some disagree with...
Words have meaning. Sometimes, words are just pictures.
I think..: for the most part; the majority of; a lot of; are some phrases that need to be added to our commentaries from time to time.
Forgive me this; ALL democrats nor ALL republicans are going to march in lock step with their parties.
Likewise, not ALL crossbow hunters are going into the woods 'just to make meat'.
I personally, have enjoyed the company of everyone that I have met through Tradgang. Some are knife makers,arrow makers, flint knappers,stump killers and some just want to be around sticks and strings.
It is, to me; what "you" give that makes the difference in who "they" are. And, if then, they are not someone you get along with...shake hands and go on...
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TV personalities are a small subset... but the are marketed to the masses. I find about 1 in 10 of the hunters I meet afield (public lands) are people I care to converse with, much less hunt with. Fortunately, the traditional crowd has a much higher ratio!!!
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I agree with Matt. The internet has also taken on this mentality as well. If you visit other web sites(I don't anymore) its obvious that some people aren't really interested in bowhunting at all, but are much more interested in tearing down other bowhunters.
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The TV guys are not for me. I like most folks but won't take many on a hunt with me. It's not the attitude that everyone is talking about though. It's going elk hunting for two or three weeks and spending all my time trying to bolster the other guy up so that he will have a good time. I hate to be in camp with people that don't help out and hangdog around when they miss an oppurtunity.
We are there to have fun and enjoy each others company. I had two different guys elk hunt with me in the last ten years that will never get an invite again. One guy got so depressed when the hunting got tough, that he bitched all the time and ended up saying that we didn't know what we were doing and packed up and left with 2 days to go. My partner and I killed a big 6 pt the next day.
The other fellow told a good story before we went so that we believed he knew something about hunting. When we got there however, we found out that all of his hunting was done in a box blind or treestand. The mountains overwhelmed him and he didn't follow instructions on getting into shape. In three weeks he did the dishes once and offered to cook dinner once. He spent most of the time sleeping while Jason and I did all the work. At the end of the hunt, he was upset that he didn't get a shot at an elk.
Those are the hunters I don't like to be around. Give me enthused, prepared and excited to be there til you have to leave for home.
Mike
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I know of one TV guy I'd hunt with anywhere- his name is Tom Nelson. I spent a week with him in Saskatchewan and was very, very impressed with his approach to hunting, his selflessness in situations where he could have likely muscled his way into hot stands and instead pushed for first timers to get in there and get something...and his general demeanor.
He is a humble, down to earth person just like the people I have met from TG, and just like he seems to be on his show.
I don't think Matt was saying anything about what weapon these people used as his barometer of whether to spend time with them or not- he was speaking only of attitude.
I know from experience Matt will hunt with anyone who offers him food. He may not come back if you act like a jerk, fist-pumping the air and talking about "BIG BUCK DOWN, BABY" and that sort of nonsense, but he will hunt with you.
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I could count on 5 fingers those I either hunt with or would hunt with. Over the years Ive had the opportunity to hunt with some excellent hunters but that seems like another lifetime ago...PR
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One of the reasons I frequent these forums is that there are so few other hunters I run into around that I want much to do with. Unless I can hook up with a couple of trad guys I prefer to disassociate from other hunters altogether. The focus on technology and rack size are so depressing.
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I can agree with not wanting to hang with the: "antlers-are-everything-I-wanna-be-on-TV-always-looking-for-an-edge attitude" crowd. Somehow though that prompts me to want to thank all of the veteran hunters who have been extraordinarily generous, patient, and inclusive with me over the years. I've encountered a few condescending hunters who were overly protective of their knowledge or acted toward me like I wasn't one of the "cool kids" in a way that I hadn't experienced since high school but they only underscored what great men are they who showed kindness to someone who didn't know much of anything and even did their best to make me feel comfortable by sharing their embarrassing mistakes that they had made when they were first starting out!
Not all of us grew up in hunting families. Some of us, like me, knew absolutely nothing when we first started out. I remember when I first started traditional archery. I literally didn't know that anyone else in my area had any interest in it. I went to my first 3D shoot nearby alone. I was walking along when a guy ahead turned around and said: "Hey, are you by yourself? Well, hell man shoot with us!" I initially declined with the explanation that I'd be spending my day looking for arrows but he said; Great! You'll fit right in!" LOL! By the end of the day he'd not only gave me numerous shooting tips, he had insisted that I borrow one of his bows as: "a better bow to start with!" and gave me a number of arrows he "didn't need anymore!" He continued to teach me a LOT about how to hunt and we are close friends to this day. I have since learned of the many others he has mentored along in this wonderful adventure!
Just tonight a member of my rod and gun club called me out of the blue to offer me his favorite stand at a nearby wildlife refuge now open for hunting. He said that he had so many private areas he'd gathered permission to hunt over the years and he knew that I hadn't many and "hey, I don't want it to go to waste so let me show you were I put it-there's some nice bucks cruisin' by there!"
I try to be like these guys and there are few people I wouldn't take hunting and no one I can think of that I wouldn't share what little I know with.
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I just returned from a week long hunt in Kansas -sharing camp with good friends that I don't get to see very often. I enjoyed the time and the company very much. It was a joy to come into camp and share experiences and the deer seen with guys that respect the hunt, the quarry and the comraderie.
Bowhunting, for me, is a personal, singular endevour, but I do enjoy spending time with like minded folks who appreciate the experience and the craft as mch as I do. :campfire:
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Eichler. She has one of those TV series and is the CFO of Muzzy Corp. She has also worked with Congressmen in Wash. DC working for the hunting industry and hunters like you and me. In real life she is very gracious and charming. She has about 150 trad archers come to her family's place in NY each year and for their annual stump shoot...some of the best people in trad archery show up and most of you wouldn't know who they are. And Michelle was very influential in getting Laura to hunt. She simply told her that if an animal presented itself that there was no imperative to shoot it....you had a choice to make at that time. I would like to think that some of the others on these shows are more like Michelle in real life. I'll probably never find that out. But having met guys like you have been good experiences for me and Laura.
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If we don't spend time around other hunters and share our knowledge, then they may only be exposed to the running hunting ads on television. My place is always open to other hunters at least once.
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Don't know what happened to the first part of my post but basically I have found that trad bowhunters to be fine people. I was trying to relate how Michelle Eichler was influential on getting my wife, who has shot with me for 15 years, to give hunting a try. I also related how much I enjoyed meeting you and Biggie and all of the others up in Labrador.
I wonder, too, how hunting in the US is going to be for the future. Surely not all of us have the time, money or land to do what we see in the horn porn TV shows. But on the other hand I have learned a fair amount about food plots and taking care of what little land I own.
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I really dont even like to talk about hunting with most people. My dad, my college roommates and their dad, and maybe one or two more that I can think of. Even the one or two more can really get on my nerves at times, but they are good people. I really cant stand it when my wife and I are at one of her hospital christmas parties or what have you, and she says hi this is my husband, he hunts. Now i have to chat about hunting with a hospital or doctor exec, that will never understand just how I feel about the pasttime I partake in. My dad and my college roommates are the only ones that will ever understand how I feel, and honestly Id much rather keep it that way.
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That's a shame Dustin. Those are opportunities to be an ambassador of hunting. A chance to help those who may have nothing but the media and PETA ads to base an opinion on hunting from another view from someone who does understand what it is truly about.
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I hunt alone all the time now.
I was in several hunting clubs over the years and was really turned off buy the jerks, whack-um stack-um kind of guys that were members.
My last club was different, great older guys, hard workers and always a joy to be around. Unfortunately this club folded when we lost the lease.
I would love to hunt with some of my last clubs former members but our schedules are different and connections are difficult.
I have had other people call me and want to go hunting with me but the bottom line is they didn't know where to hunt and wanted to find out where my hot spots were. Needless to say, I didn't hunt with these type of guys.
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I feel the same as you Matt. I only want to be around hunters who think like me, which are few and far between.
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I hunt with my brother and with a close friend and his father. The four of us get along well split the dishes and cooking and other non fun work. I have been hunting with them for 14 years now. I also hunt alone, but like to camp and hunt with others. I've basically learned everything I know about trad from the kindness of those on this site, I really don't know any other trad hunters. Hopefully one day I'll have an opportunity to hunt with some of you.
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I know exactly what you are talking about, Dustin. That Christmas party scenario is the exact thing that I was thinking of when I made my post before. Your lovely wife thinks she is doing you a favor by providing something for you to talk about in an unfamiliar social situation and you end up stuck in a conversation with a guy whose concept of hunting is what he does once a year at some high dollar lodge. Or better yet, he reveals to you in the first minute of conversation something he has done that you know is illegal or personally unacceptable. Stuck all night-been there!
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Well, at least she didn't say, "this is my husband, Dustin, and he is a bi-polar." :bigsmyl:
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Shoe-man, check your NB email account - YOU HAVE MAIL!
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Matt...you need some R & R..Call Sam and ya'll come duck hunting next month..Bring your bows..I call them in close!
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yeah sure Joey.......invite Sam and Matt...
I watched a guy shoot a caribou with a compound device last weekend.(on the tube) He made a bad shot in high wind, turned to the other guy and grabbed his rifle and put him down.
That kind of guy, I have no use for. I couldn't possibly have anything in common to talk about.
Bd thing is, seems like there are more and more like him out there nowdays :-(
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its all about wak'em and stack'em because thats all there is on tv and weather we like it or not the tv is where the up and coming bowhunters learn their woodmanship.
In order to change the direction the sport is going we need to produce more of the old school/outdoorsmen type programing to influence the massess. (build and they will come)
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I hunt a public land area where there's a lottery in the morning. People line up and draw numbers. During the wait I don't think I've talked to maybe three people while waiting in line in probably eight to ten years of hunting there.
I just don't like the general macho bravado talk. Plus I'm not too sociable to begin with.
The guys at work that hunt are mostly the same way. Only really swap hunting stories with one other bowhunter. The others are most braggers and don't share the same ethics and cares.
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I grew up hunting with my dad, don't get a chance to do that anymore and I just can't get use to hunting with anyone else.
There has been many days when i could have killed squirrels, rabbits, and dove with my bow ( without using an arrow) and I choose to just watch, learn, and thank God for the moment. I'm afraid if I brought another hunter along I would miss out on those moments
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Well lately the only people I do get along with are hunters. They seem to be the only ones that get what life is about! I will never understand the majority who are so distanced from nature that they think playing 18 holes is getting back to the wild. That science controls the world vs discovering more about it. If you don't have a PHD in law your stupid and can't begin to know about what is best for the world. Most are so arrogant they think they can control their destiny through their jobs and what books they read.
TV in general is a complete waste land.
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Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
I watched a guy shoot a caribou with a compound device last weekend.(on the tube) He made a bad shot in high wind, turned to the other guy and grabbed his rifle and put him down.
That kind of guy, I have no use for. I couldn't possibly have anything in common to talk about.
Bd thing is, seems like there are more and more like him out there nowdays :-(
I'm with you Biggie.
A lot of people have taken up hunting or have learned their attitudes from these shows, most of which put the entire emphasis on the taking of game and more specifically the taking of giant game. With few exceptions, most of these shows/videos seem to totally ignore the joy of the hunt, the beauty of nature and the comaradery of a hunt camp. They have whittled down the whole experience and made the kill the primary focus.
Not to say that those of us here don't want to take big game, but I think we also get more from the whole experience. We need more videos like the Primal Dreams, The Bowhunters of TradGang, Lettin Loose, etc that try to encapsulate the whole hunting experience and not just focus on the trophy. The kill is just the culmination of a whole journey of experiences that make up the hunt. Too many people are missing out on the journey.
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My hunting buddies have been winnowed down to two through attrition. One lives in Florida, one lives in Missouri, and I live in Mississippi. We still manage to get together at least once a year for a deer and/or turkey hunt. Otherwise I have practically no contact with other hunters in real time and space.
Sunday my Florida bud is flying in to Memphis, where I'll pick him up for the trip to Missouri. My Missouri bud has 40 acres of prime deer land with an old run-down cabin. We'll stay there for several days and hunt his place and public land in the area with bows and guns, and have a ball, whether we kill anything or not. Most years I just watch and wait for the perfect buck that never shows. I'll bowhunt this year, but I'm taking my smokepole and modern gun too, just because. The objective is fun and fellowship, and reinforcing friendships that just get better.
Matt, it's not just you. Once a hunter reaches a certain point in his maturity, the hunt becomes a means to a different end, a place where satisfaction comes whether blood has flowed or not.
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I enjoy sharing camp with others. Talking over a fire, speaking of the days events. I like to hunt with people that are not territorial. I can not stand when hunting an area and another hunter (friend) tries to over hunt an area that you have scouted and seen deer but want's you to stay out of "there" spot.
I enjoy hunting with a few people. My father, and a few friends. I am always willing to go hunt with anyone and take anyone hunting. I have started to distance myself from other hunters that do not want to help, and share in an enjoyable hunting experience. I want to kill a deer like everyone else but there is more to hunting than killing.
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Unless I am elk hunting; where teaming up on elk is a good hunting method; I might go hunting with someone; but rarely hunt ~with~ them.
I have met quite a few really wonderful people on this site that have come out and hunted with me; and I enjoyed their company.
I second Ray Hammonds notations about Tom Nelson; he used to work at 'Anderson Archery' in Grand Ledge Michigan; and he was a good guy then; would bend over backwards to find the right bow for you; and the right arrow- and he remains a good person on his show.
I have to admitt; that other than Fred Eichler; and the giggles of Tiffany; most shows are boring and do not represent most hunters out there.
I watch guys and gals sitting in a blind over bait waiting for a big buck - and apologising for shooting does... and remember that traditional bowhunting has lasted for over 9000 years - and what we see on TV... is already circling the drain.
I actually like Jim Shockeys show over most; as it demonstrates good hearted people that hunt.
I have enjoyed hunting with other bowhunters; but even the nicest best friends that are new to hunting: have wrecked chances to take game- more than anti-hunters ever have. I like to help people get started in bowhunting; but it does require sacrifice....it does have it rewards though.
I have to say that some of the best hunters I have met have been rifle hunters. I mean in the sense of figuring things out; putting together minds; and getting shot opprotunities. Of course; there are bowhunters that do the same; I am just not excluding rifle hunters.
I acutally am sickened at this point in my life by seeing animals shot with guns on tv. I don't like it. I do not see someone as shooting a 'bow and arrow' - when they draw back five minutes before the animal shows up; and comment that they: 'can't wait to pull the trigger on that buck' or exclaim: ' I smoked him !'.
I do realize the importance of gun hunting; just don't like it at all anymore.
I do live in an area with tons of gun hunters camped out everywhere; and most guys are having fun; and are decent people. I do enjoy talking with them because they are hunting and I am a hunter.
But there is more to hunting than killing.. and unless that is part of another hunters persona- no I really don't like being around them.
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Matt you are just starting to act like Joe Buck and Biggie I sure hope I never get old as you fellers!
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Look what the rat drug in.........DDauler!!!!!!!!...Douglas!!....Woodbow Extordiare!!!....mr. cranky himself.........Ole Matt needs a wife...it would change his life!!!!
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I like hanging out with trad gang hunters. :campfire:
Last NJ winter bow was a good time.
I hunt at my Dad's camp during rifle, and even though I've know these guys most of my life, it's just not my crowd.
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Joe Buck, this ole woodbow rat can't even seem to kill a critter with his widow this year. I reckon your gonna have to send me one of them recurves you been makin!
yea a wife would certainly slow his huntin down and then he might preciate the hunters more when he does go!
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I have to admit that I share some of those feelings. As a general rule, no. I do not like to be around most hunters. I am very particular about who I hunt with. That doesn't mean Trad only for me anymore.
After being a died in the wool traditional hunter for a number of years I have gotten back into all types of hunting with all weapons. This is due to the fact I just wasn't having fun anymore. I also had some personal and work issues come into play. Since I have changed, I have had more fun and more personal success's (not measured in inches of antler BTW).
I have gotten away from the Traditional only, traditional is right diehard mentality. I fully support those who choose that philosophy, as I have been there done that. In fact, I am humbled by the guys doing it. Many of you on this site.
Hunting is very personal to me. It is my personal mindset that matters, not the weapon, season, species, or what other hunters think.
I have hunted and spent some time with some of the "big names" in traditional archery. Some I prefer to not be around, while others I would hunt with every chance I get. So equipment alone does not make the man so to speak.
Lately I am into experiencees, I want to try it all, hunt everyhting using different techniques, styles etc. IIn doing that I like to create small personal challenges. To prove to myself and no one else.
There are three conflicts:
Man vs Man
Man vs Nature
Man vs himself.
The last two are the reasons I hunt. The first is what turns alot of us off, but also provides a primary drive for most of the hunters that we prefer to not be around.
I have been around a few bowhunters that use traditional equipment that happen to use the man vs man as a primary drive. As a general rule, I detest hunting with those types and avoid it at all costs. Being traditional in my mind has nothing to do with ego's. It is all about personal challenges.
As far as horn porn, (man VS man) I love watching those shows for seeing the actual animals/scenery. But some of those hunters/scenarios make me want to puke. I use our DVR liberally and it is wonderful to skip the garbage. And there is a lot of garbage out there.