Trad Gang

Called in a decent PY buck last night- came running over 150 yds away right to me.  Great bodied deer- 190# field dressed I would guess.  135" 4 x 4.  I was up 16 ft.  He came right to my tree- jumped the fence and walked right under me and straight away. . . once stopped at 5 yds, 10 yds, etc. . . finally knew somthing was up, I kept him around for 30 minutes with no further shot opps.  

I was not sure I really wanted to shoot him this early in the season any way- he will be great next year.  

In hind-sight, would you/do you take shots straight down on their back like that?  I know some who do and some who don't.  I have heard of many a lost deer with that shot. . . thoughts.??

Thanks. . .

I've done it once and probably wont do it again.  Only got one lung and pass thru, but trailed her for at least 600-800yds.  It would be great if you knew you would hit the spine every time, but it don't work that way.

If you have practiced the shot you should be able to take it with no problem. Bend at the waist, pick a spot and have at it. Hit the spine and he is down and out. Should always result in a good blood trail if you miss the spine and still get a direct pass through. I've only had this shot on a couple of occasions and both times it resulted in a quick kill.  :archer:

I think you probably did the right thing.

Asking for 24" or whatnot of penetration is not a given in shooting straight down.  So when you don't hit the spine (a pretty small target) you may or may not have an exit hole which complicates things greatly.  Another thing, with the straight down shot, I think a lot of guys unintentionally stray back toward the diaphragm, etc. because it looks a little different from straight above.  I also think some of us have problems with bottom limb clearance when we shoot straight down (do you straddle the bow, lean out, or what?; like Bill said you'd better practice it, although I don't think it's as easy as he describes; no offense).  

I shot one deer straight down many years ago and I doubt I would do it again.  I did not recover it and it is one of the few deer in all these years that I've hit and lost that I think probably died.  I know several other guys who similarly avoid this shot.

My second buck this year was taken at 3-4 yards from just 8' up and it was darn near the same result.  My arrow had almost 24" penetration but the broadhead lodged literally on the bottom of his chest (you could feel it through the skin).  But because it did not break through, there was no exit and therefore no blood trail.  Only through about 5-6 hours of hard looking (almost 3 hrs. that night, almost 3 hours the next AM) I found him about 200 yards away in an unexpected direction with not one drop of blood found until the last 10 yards.  As it turned out my shot hit where I was aiming, but I think I only got one lung, maybe nicked the second one and/or cut some major plumbing by the heart.  I know a lot of guys would have given up and lost that deer.

These and other anecdotes are why I really would rather have a 20 yard shot than a straight down shot.  (Actually I'd rather have a 10 yarder).    :saywhat:  

To accomplish this, sometimes I'll pile up some brush in the off-season to make it harder for deer to end up directly below me.  Sometimes the *&^%$#@'s end up there anyway.    :(

NO

NO, real good chance at 1 lung and a forever tracking job and a good chance of a wounded/lost deer...a VERY poor shot  usually they might give something walking away, he isnt spooked and you may get a better shot later in the year..

NO!!  Not a good percentage shot with any equipment.  Almost impossible to hit both lungs and a spine shot on purpose with a bow. . . well it just aint right.

Mike

Dan   the P&Y part was a trick question ... right?

My opinion is that it is a very tempting, but not so great shot.  Hitting the spine does not mean a dead deer.  I have a section of spine on my desk with a broadhead stuck in it, a corner of the head actually in the nerve channel (whatever that is called).  This deer lived to get shot another year.  The spine and the ribs form a nice protecting cover over the chest cavity and can easily divert your broadhead.  As stated above, a double lung hit is very unlikely in this shot.  A two holer (exit) well, the deer is widest at that point and you HAVE to go thru bone to do it.

Gotta call your own.  I wouldn't do it.  I think you did the right thing.
ChuckC

Well, I will speak from experience.  I have one deer on my wall, and it is the result of such a shot; HOWEVER, it didn't turn out to be a good shot.  This was a few years back when I was shooting only wheelybows.  I clipped the spine but didn't put him down with it.  As a result, no pass through, even though I was shooting a 60# compound.  It is a long way though a large buck from top to bottom.  I did get lots of vital damage as the arrow was slicing everything up as he ran off.  Also, he was literally almost straight down facing towards me, so instead of angling towards the vitals, it was angling slightly towards to stomach, but I still ended up hitting vitals.  Problem was, no pass through equals no blood trail.  Lucky for me, he ran down into a ravine and only went about 40-50 yds, but it took quite a bit of looking to find him.  Long story short, I got lucky on a poor shot.  Would I do it again, maybe and only if the angle was different.

I'll also speak from experience. I shot a doe on opening day directly under my stand. It seemed like a chip shot because the deer was so close. I searched that night and again the next morning, and I was unable to find her. I regret taking the shot now and I'll never shoot at one that close under me again.

If you praticed your shots from that position.There would be no reason you should not be able to hit that target at that distance.The decition is yours and yours alone to make at the time.If you were uncomfortable with the shot.You did the right thing by passing.But if you were to lets just say pratice that shot prior to the season from the same height you should feel good about the shot.I seen a fellow archer hit a half dollar 6 out of 6 at 20 yards...just some food for thought.bowdoc

You did the right thing not shooting... Broadside or quartering only for me. If "killing" a deer was our only goal, we would all hunt with 30:06's...


JDS III

Ooops - I better stop. One of my best friends just lost a deer with this shot. I was confused about it because I have taken this shot - not often - about once very other year - for the last ten or so years - and recovered the deer every time - about 100 yards recovery. I could skip it though - lets face it - if you get em in that close - you will get a better shot another day. One thing I can tell you for sure about this shot is that deer HATE it - they blow out like you jumped onto their back!!!!!!!! They are just not used to this - they deal with coyotes, pigs, other deer, rattlesnakes - whatever - all from the side - eye level or lower. Every single deer I shot straight down FREAKED Out - and every time I was scared I might lose it just because of the way they were covering ground gettin outta there.
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You won't have to! If he is under your stand he has to walk out from under it and then he is at a better angle and position. Just wait...have patience.

not a shot i would take...have seen a couple of nice deer that were lost with "tween" the blade shots...

If you're asking, you know the answer.  If the shot is irresponsible on a doe or on an average buck, then it's irresponsible on a nice buck.  Headgear has nothing to do with it.

I don't like between the feet shots but when he stopped at 5 and 10 yards I would have drilled him.The angle would have been good to take out the diaphram, liver and put a broadhead in his chest then.He would have not gone very far.jmo

NOPE!!

David

Had several opps at under 15 yards, but I was waiting for him to quarter one way or the other.  For some reason he spooked slightly and bounded out broadside at about 12 yds.  I still could not decide if I wanted to shoot. . . then after a few seconds I decided to take it. . . he then saw me move to draw and stared right at me as I was skylined.  Anyway, he spooked off another ten yards or so and never offered another shot though I kept him around for awhile as I kept calling quietly to him.  It sure was fun!  Ahh, November is coming.  The best is yet to come. . .

Thanks for all the thoughts.  I have never taken a shot like that in 35 years of bowhunting and sometimes wonder if I should.  

Thanks again. . . (Oh yea, I am not a macho man or anything, but I was not kidding about it being PY. He was a beauty 3-4 year old, just not a bruiser yet and it is early in the season.  Late Nov and he would have been down for the count.)  

Dan

I am going to disagree with some folks here.  I have spined probably 6 deer in the past 25 years. It works.  It aint pretty and maybe that is what you guys are worried about but they don't go anywhere!  I would take the shot!!


jf

No I wouldn't.  I have before but not again.

I passed on a 160 class buck last week was directly under my stand for 20 min., then he just walked off, not worth losing him would rather let him go and take a chance at him later, maybe...

Be there done that never again  :(   Not saying it wont work but you did the right thing Dan.

Tracy

The decision is yours, no one else was there. If you know you can kill him, than shoot you must of known ya would not kill him. I go on my first instinct. If my mind says shoot I do. I had a 140"+ ten point at 35 yards yesterday a huge buck where I hunt and I chose not to shoot. Head down feeding in an open field and very relaxed. I keep kicking myself because right after I said no don't shoot I said I can make this shot. I went with my first feeling though. Shawn

I lost a buck doing that a few years back, just the way everyone here has described with a one-lung hit and several hours of futile searching. Seemed reasonable at the time, but I've thought about it a few times since, and I can't see taking that shot again. And I haven't since.

No! not a very  good chance with any Bow NO!  :banghead:

I had the same situation early this season on a big buck that I have seen during july.  He stood directly under my stand, and I declined the shot.  Sure I really wanted him, but I don't regret not taking the shot.  If you don't get a complete passtrhough on that shot, it's going to be extremely difficult to find that deer IF you even kill it.  You made the right choice.

There is alot of goodies to hit from that angle. I have killed 3 or 4 deer straight down. Never lost one.

You have the spine which is actually a good shot if you hit it. Might not kill em but they aint going nowhere. Make sure you have a couple more arrows.

Arteries running down the back. Hit one of them they wont go far. You will proly watch em go down.

Then you have all the vitals. Chances are if you go thru the back and hit the vitals you got a dead deer.

IMO just as good as a broadside shot. Just not the ideal shot.

NO

You can"t guarantee a 1 lung hit. I know of a shot like this that skated around the rib cage. It cut the hide for 12"-14" the deer did not survive. It was found a month later dead from what look like sever infection.

thats a shot I WONT take regardless of the deer.

No, never, on any deer.  

Spine is too small of a target and it's nearly impossible to hit both lungs from this angle. Could possibly hit the heart but again, that's a pretty small target too.

While a double lung hit deer can't make it too far, a deer hit in just one lung can go a looongg way! If you don't get a pass through, (and you probably won't) you're in for a very tough tracking job and there's a good chance of never recovering an animal that will most certainly not survive.

For me, the risk just outweighs the chance of success. JMO

Ron

NO

A quick humane kill is what we should be looking for. A spine shot deer is NOT that.

I once shot a deer that had walked directly below my stand. The arrow went between his right shoulder blade and his spine and came out low in his chest, as he was walking away from me a couple of yards from my tree stand. Although I searched for the next two days, I never found the deer, but I was sure he eventually died.

A month later during gun season, a young fellow killed a deer with a rifle that look just like the deer I had shot, including an unusual set of antlers. The deer was killed less than a half mile from where I shot the one from my stand. On further examination it was observed that the dead deer had a been shot exactly where mine had been hit and carried the marks of entry and exit wounds from a three blade broadhead like the Thunderhead I had been shooting. Obviously, it was the same deer that I thought I had killed and did not. That shows you how tough those animals are and how uncertain a straight down shot can be even when the deer is hit exactly like you tried to hit it. I probably won't try that shot again.

Allan

Well done. Pope and Young should have NOTHING to do with it.

No!

My answer is NO!
I took two shots straight down on deer while hunting Blackbeard Island this month. I tried to put my arrow between the shoulder blades both times. I hit where I was aiming, but I only got three inches deep. I pull about a 60lb. bow. Was heart breaking to see each deer bound away with a full lenght arrow sticking straight up in the air! One arrow simply fell out (broadhead too) after 70 yards. I will never take that shot again.
Clay

I could not say if i would or not i have never had a shot opertunity like that. I will say that i will take any shot that i feel confertable will get into the vitals. If i know in my heart and mind that it will make a quick and clean kill i will take it.

Note the consensus!  NO.  Thanks everyone for input. . . I have never shot straight down and I guess I won't.

Also, not trying to tell guys what to do, but- noticed some say they wait until the moment, then decide.  I am not sure that is best.  Like other ethical issues, it would seem best to decide before hand.  Emotions/passion has a funny (and fearful) way of leading folks wrong.

My 2C and thanks again

Dan