Do we want to stop the deer before the shot, or let them amble along with no reason to be on alert and take the shot? I've shot a few that way under 20 yards with good results. However last night I took a shot a bit longer than that and ended up in the femoral artery. I'm very lucky to have killed the animal. My question is did my arrow really take that long to get there with the deer walking to be 18" behind the goodies or did I just miss?
The deer can easily move that far, especially when shooting over twenty five yards.
Grunt softly with your mouth.
I always bleat to stop a deer no matter what the range, but of course the grunt I used to try and stop the 140" 9pt in IL a few weeks ago did not work very well and actually sped him up, but better to not take a shot then risk shooting a moving animal. Mark
I like to softly mew to get them to stop. Or whistle softly. either way do it softly to get their attention but not loud enough to give yourself away.
How long is a bit longer. If say 5 more yards and deer was not alert and did not take off at sound of shot then you just missed. But with that said wee all know how fast deer can react and move!
I'm a little embarrassed to say, I preach not to shoot over 25, I plain didn't realize how far this deer was out. 40 steps from the tree I was in, elevation was perfect, that computer we have on our shoulders is amazing, I just went on auto pilot, drilled a hole with my eyes and let it go. Neither the deer or I knew he was hit..walked off and tipped over.
I just got to thinking..if a walking deer moves a step and a half at 40 yds. then he's moving 8 inches or so at 20 yds....maybe I need to start trying to stop them.
OL has posted the numbers a deer moves in a single step in the time it takes for a trad arrow to reach in a thread here somewhere. I do remember it was close to 18" at 30 yards on average.
Whistle, mouth grunt, or I have had to yell at some bucks that are really on the move.
18" to the back end of the "goodies". On a nice buck even more than that if you are aiming above the elbow. Yes they move that much and they can change direction or speed. Ever get to thinking how long your arrow is airborne for 40 yards ? I have seen javelina, shot at from less than 15 yards, be totally to the other side of the sendero before the arrow hit.. where they used to be.
ChuckC
I have enough problems trying to hit them where I want when they are still. I personally wouldn't try shooting one when walking. I usually mouth bleat real soft to get them to stop.
I shot at an 8 point back in 1987, he was chasing a group of does and moving along at a little slower than a trot. He was about 28 yards out and in an open field.
Just to let you know back then I practiced by shooting at 2" orange rifle dots, and did this daily. I could consistently hit these dots and milk jug caps out to 35 yards. Enough said.
I figured the shot on this buck was in the bag. I lead him by an entire body length and released. If he hadn't flipped his tail that arrow would probably have cut it off! I had no idea it would cover that much distance in such a short time span.
Two weeks later I shot a doe from the same stand at 37 yards walking from a marsh pond to a scrub oak patch. Lead her by a body length, released, and she kept walking. Thought I had missed . She made it to the scrub oaks jumped in and collapsed. I went to retrieve her and found that she was double lunged low just behind the heart.
After these experiences I have tried to stop them just before releasing. A grunt will normally work, although sometimes they just pick up their pace. It really all depends on how they feel. :archer:
bwana, was that orange dot walking ?
Shooting at moving targets is not something I am good at and I tend not to try it. I am a failure... sorry.
ChuckC :banghead:
A deer moving at 2 mph (a slow walk) moves ((5280 x 2)/60)/60 = 2.93 feet per second. An arrow leaving a bow at 175 feet per second takes (20 x 3)/175 = .34 seconds to cover twenty yards, IF it maintains that speed throughout its flight.
Assume that you have perfect flight and that you take absolutely no time in deciding to release and then actually releasing. The deer will have still moved 2.93 x .34 = .9962 foot while the arrow was moving. Nobody takes zero time in deciding to release and in releasing. And I suspect that few arrows maintain 175 fps all the way to the deer over twenty yards.
So, you're probably off your aiming point by a foot or more if the deer is moving and you haven't led properly for the shot.
Yeah, I'll be grunting if the question arises.
Can't say I never took a walking shot. Took my biggest buck that way. However it isn't a very good shot. Too many things can go wrong. I have to feel pretty confident for that one.
I don' want to ruffle feathers but their is a trade off, a deer walking is not "on alert" which in my experience is when they do that blow up in a quarter second thing. I think I will continue to take a walking shot under 20 yds...that lead is manageable. Eidsvolling great explanation! Over 20..I don't have the skill to do it.
We could get into a discussion about shooting at a spot in front of the animal...taking a lead maintaining said lead and releasing or come in from the back of the target, move through the target and release...I think a moving target to experiment on is in my future.
GREAT thread! I saw all the videos the Primos boys did where they bleat or even yell or whistle to stop them: Word of caution. Keep it soft. :)
I had a situation years back.. on stand all day, not talked to anyone for 9 hrs...and along comes a beautiful big based 8pt...local hero deer.
It was walking slowly...really plodding up hill. 12 yards from my tree... I decided to "bleat" softly... :)
Having not said a word aloud for that many hours, it came out a bit loud and even startled me...that ole boy froze with his legs kinda splayed in mid stride..when I dumped the string, I swear his brisket made a 2" deep dent in the dirt! I watched my feathers fold up as they barely creased his back..never cut a hair!
On another occassion, having practiced shooting at slow moving targets for the year, I dumped one at 12 yards and it was a perfect hit and a dead deer immediately.
I've varied the situation using the stop method if they're moving too fast or farther out...but indeed...they're on a "quiet alert" when they hear a sound and stop... aim lower. :) They tend to drop when the bow's released.
I've never had any problem shooting slow walking deer by swinging with the deer and making an instictive lead. It's not hard and as has been said, a relaxed, walking deer does not jump the string.
Its easier to time the shot by running along side of them.
Steve
I do not like to alert a deer of my presence in side of twenty yards, so I just pick a spot and let the computer between the ears figure the lead. I rarely shoot farther then twenty yards at an animal with my selfbows, so they have to be stopped and totally relaxed for me to extend beyond that range.
Ben,
I think you will find the "overtaking method" to be the most reliable. Don't get me wrong, I not advocating for shooting moving targets, nor am I chastising you for doing so, just giving input on your question of method. I used to shoot sporting clays on a competition league for many years and can tell you anytime a target is moving, picking a spot in the front will not consistently work. The most reliable method is to come from behind and overtake the target as this gives you an idea of distance and speed (if you know the relative size of the object you're shooting--which you do). Let me know your results.
Bob
Id try to stop em first. I took a shot at a stopped pig once. the thing heard my arrow, did a 270 degree spin and was in the woods before my arrow got to where it was. And that was from a whopping 5 yards too!
I never had a problem shooting at walking deer. I miss them just like I do when they're standing still.
My experience has been the same as Ben, in some areas you may be better of taking a slow walking shot at a deer that's not alert, as to a standing shot at a deer that's on alert.
Guss
I used to practice all the time on moving targets. I stretched a rope between two poles and hung a 3D deer on it with pullies. I would have friends pull it at different speeds with a long rope attached to the front. I got pretty confident inside of 20 yards. Just like anything else, it takes practice.
I like to find a slow grade down hill. look for a spot behind that will stop arrows. get some old car tires (often dumped in place). get your hunting buddy to take the up the grade (too much work for me :) ). roll them down the slow grade. see if ya can put an arrow thru the center of the tire. tire may bounce a bit....not as easy as ya think.
rusty
WAsn't it the Wensel boys that told of their dad making them shoot targets inside rolling tires down hills?
My buddy quotes one of their books I don't have to that effect...and whichever--- one of the twins wrote, "...saw a deer running and my mind said, "tire rolling down a hill" and I shot and killed it!" (paraphrased by 3 hand tellin!) :)
The tire idea sounds like a great place to start..and I also am a pass shooter, meaning I catch up swing through the target and release.
I'll take a walking shot any time at a reasonable distance. I've never had a walking deer jump the string like they do when they are stopped. In fact if they are stopped and alert I'll wait for them to start walking before I shoot.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Woodring:
Do we want to stop the deer before the shot, or let them amble along with no reason to be on alert and take the shot?
My suggestion would be to ALWAYS practice shots you want or believe you will take while hunting.
If you don't practice them...you really will never know with any certainty that you can make the shot. If you take it without knowing...it will be just a guess.
So if you want to take moving shots on animals...practice moving shots on targets at distances you want to shoot from.
If you're not going to practice them...I don't recommend taking them when hunting.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Woodring:
My question is did my arrow really take that long to get there with the deer walking to be 18" behind the goodies or did I just miss?
You would most likely know the answer to that question...if you had been practicing that shot.
There's a number of ways you can practice it...but it involves you being creative.
Shoot with a buddy rolling tires down a hill with ballons in the center or shoot at basketball sized balls rolling down a hill.
Set up a cable system with a target that moves along it.
Ray ;)
With my lack of experience I figured it is best just to let any moving deer walk no matter how slow they are moving or how close they are. I get worked up enough with a deer standing in front of me that I can just imagine what would happen if I tried a shot at a moving animal.
Bleating seems to work for compounds shooters who can draw and hold for several minutes, I've never tried it because I figured it would put a deer on high alert and they would easily pick up the movement of drawing or the sound of a shot. May have to try bleating at a moving deer if the opportunity arises since it works for some people here.