Usually don't vent much but this caught me off guard. Got off to a late start (noon) had to take Mom to the Doctor. Then planned to stay out afternoon / evening hunt.
Got my stool set up in some hemlocks natural blind/dead fall. Plenty of deer runs through the area. Everything about the area just seemed right, so I thought.
Around 5pm I hear movement shifted my eyes to the left. I seen two hunters dressed in head to toe in flo orange 45 yds from me. I stood up coughed and said as low as I tried there's a bowhunter over here.
I knew they heard me, seen me (waving orange hat). They proceeded to put a sent dispenser in the ground around 40-50 yds to my left. Totally ignoring that I was there.
Then it got pretty quite and I thought they had left. Several minutes later I hear leaves being cleared out. I cut my head back and noticed they were set up around 50 yds in back of me.
I thought I've had it !! Going to go talk with them and see if maybe they didn't understand something. As I was getting closer to them I asked are you bow hunting ?
They replied no , I asked them what are you doing here, I know you had seen me. As I approached it was a father & son and they said they were rifle hunting.
I said rifle hunting for what, reply was deer. I said it's not in. Father replied it is for youth. Puzzled dumbfounded I took out my season and bag limits from my licence holder.
Sho enough it's open for youth accompanied by an adult. I wished the young lad luck, and said to his father. HUNTING FUTURE , me thinks he knew EXACALLY what I meant.
This caught me off guard , when did Pa throw a youth rifle hunt into the bowhunting mix ? Sorry for the rant. But seems there is less respect in the woods anymore.
Mike
bad things happen but what is he teaching his son. kind of the same thing happened to me this fall also. pulled up to some private land and i knew other people had permission to hunt their also. while getting changed a father & son pull up to go hunting ( youth season gun) so i go talk to them and let them hunt with me going some ware else while backing out the father pulls out two 5 gallon pails of apples ( baiting is not allowed in iowa ) what did he teach his son. it is a sad world some days
doug77
Youth hunt has been in place for a couple years now. That, in addition to the muzzleloader season and next week the fall turkey/small game seasons. Oh well, next year maybe we will have crossbows too... Nothing like sitting in my tree stand only to be scared sh..less when the rifle cracks. Only seen five doe so far this season, hunting everyday, we should shoot more of them.............hahahahaha
Crappy situation, but early youth season has been around for quite awhile now...as is the early muzzleloader season for all ages.
Im all for youth season best thing to get young laides and men involved in hunting.As hunters we want to share with the youth and teach them the proper way .
We have youth deer and turkey seasons here as well.I wonder sometimes about what some of these guys are teaching their kids.I think some of them just take the kid along so they can shoot a deer early.
Just wait till next year when you hear a muzzleloader go off followed my the TWANG of a crossbow flying past your stand!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tennesse did that very thing also last year.
Crossbows are now legal archery equip. too.
Here in Missouri they have extended bow season by a month. We also get to share more time in the woods with other special weapons seasons.
Be careful and aware because they aren't looking out for the bowhunters. Know when those special seasons are and take the necessary precautions.
bhfp
Yup, Mike... I think when they decided they had to elminate more doe BEFORE they bred... and instituted the MZ doe season for 7 long days (2 weekends)they also said that Sr.'s and kids could use rifles the last 3 days!
Everyone complains that archers have such a long season... actually by archery standards, we get to hunt unmolested deer for 2 weeks...then come the in-line, scope sighted, MZ doe hunters driving and pushing through bedding areas we tend to avoid to not alter "natural deer movement."
By the last 3 days of that week, rifle or in-line seems moot..other'n I get more concerned, orange or not, being in trees...but then, last weekend, grouse and squirrel came in so .22 shots into trees are common too! :eek:
Last opening day of gun season, I walked in a state game lands only to have a guy and his kid come both riding ATV's on the boundary trail, fully on the game lands... in the rain... and back out 2 hrs later after shooting! I avoided confronting them. I was too ticked off to be sensible, so I sat and sulked in my blind getting soaked!
Public hunting land is a zoo...but the more land gets taken out of public use, the more difficult it becomes to manage the herd as they just tuck over where they can't be hunted...and the more pressure...and more overlapping seasons we have, the less quality hunting there is for archery deer.
Guys with more acreage, private access, etc....surely don't have the same number of conflict issues and it seems moot to them.
Maybe it's also an age thing... I know growing up, we were taught to always gave another hunter a wide birth! It was what we were taught was "considerate and ethical"!
Today, people have limited time, limited understanding of the true code of outdoorsman and the "me first" attitude means that "oh, I can sit here and watch and you can sit there and watch!"
Kinda like opening day of trout season, eh? :)
i think that they wear not hunters, not in the sence of what hunting realy is. but life is great and you wear hunting. that is a great day . :D :archer:
Pa. is without a doubt the worst state for hunting and fishing I have experienced. Don't know if I am going to buy a license next year.
Bill
yeah everyone just thinks especially city folk that they can just walk in on an piece of property desired even if the posted signs are there and dont ask permission or some story that they know who owns it
PA is not that bad. As stated earlier, you got the first two weeks of October uncontested, and as of the last couple of years, we can hunt the rut through mid November with out the worry of getting hit by a high powered rifle. In the second season, I virtually have the woods to myself (outside of Allegheny County).
I am from PA originally and was up there last week for the youth season. Obviously it is good to get the kids out there but it needs to be done right. There are inconsiderate "hunters" in every state.
I would recommend every person on here to become a Hunter Safety Instructor for their state and get involved in teaching the youth. Our local group is great. We teach Safety first and harp on the ethics of being a good hunter and sportsman. You would be srprised how many fathers come and take the course with their kid. It is a good time to open some of their eyes too.
About 6yrs ago PA was overpopulated with deer does and yearling bucks everyware. Almost everyone that hunted killed a doe and a yearling buck every year. This was not good for the deer heard or the enviroment.
The PA game commish deciced to go with a three or four point buck rull (depending on area) to save some of the yearling bucks. They also extended the old one doe tag per person three day rifle doe season to a two or three tag per person two or three week rifle (depending on area), one week early inline scoped ML (single shot rifle)and three day early youth rifle.
Now, the deer heard is devastated and instead of killing all the yearling bucks they now kill them all at 6mth old as button bucks.
GREAT JOB PA GAME COMMISH !!!!!
I think PA is a great state to hunt in. I have a cabin in north central PA, the big woods. I also support the Game Commission and it's deer mangement program. I have seen the results. There is plenty of public land in PA and all you need to do is walk a little ways and you can have the woods to yourself. There are big bucks in the northern tier that die of old age!! I have no problem giving youth and senior hunters 3 days during bow season. We need young hunters and old guys need a break. Changes in the regs are easily found in the beginnig of the digest you get with your license. There has never been 3 weeks of rifle any where in the state. You can only apply for 1 antlerless tag per WMU in the first go round, then apply for unsold tags. You can get more tags in Special Regs areas.
What I think is curious is that the Pa Game Commission allows kids to hunt with rifles in the muzzleloading/doe/archery season to encourage them to stay interested in deer hunting and at the same time has over the last 5 years issued so many doe tags that have had the result in some areas of practically wiping out the herd in public land. I've lived in Pa most of my life. It is my home state. But anyone who thinks the Pa Game Commission is doing a good job to protect our hunting heritage and encourage young folks to stay in the game is not looking past the end of their nose. From my perspective and the thousands of public acres that I hunt, Pa hunting stinks.
Sarry Matt but you are wrong, Look at your hunting and trapping regs. WMU's 2b,5c and 5d have a regular firearms antlerless deer season from Dec 15-23 & Dec 26-Jan 24. If you add that up it is almost 6 weeks. This dose not count the early rifle youth hunt and inline "muzzlleoader" week. It has been like this since they started the deer reduction program. Also, when there are enough unsold antlerless tags availiable that everyone gets two or three I count that as two or three not one.
That's the old Special Regs areas, no rifles unless your considering slug guns rifles. Lots of guys use bows and MLs during those times also and yes you can get more tags in those units. Something had to be done to the deer management program and I think they went in the right direction.
In PA now you can take 1 buck and a few doe, 2 turkeys, 2 day archery bear, 3 day regular bear, decent upland bird hunting, good small game hunting, can try and draw an elk tag, good predator hunting, good to excellent trout fishing, and beaucoup acres of public land to get lost in. Don't sound too bad to me:)
Doug77,
You didn't do yourself or anyone else in Iowa a favor by not reporting that father son team to the authorities.
The only way those folks know they are doing something wrong is when they get caught and fined/lose hunting privileges.
You might have saved the future generations of Doug's in Iowa an encounter with that young man they are surely going to have when he grows up and takes his boy out with buckets of apples in hand as well.
Missed an opportunity, I say. Not ragging on you, just pointing out it has to stop someplace, might as well be now as later.
Matt,
Your experiences are not mine and I believe that applies to a lot of Pa hunters. Many public areas are just shot out. You can have all the tags in the world, but if the areas are now practically devoid of game, it doesn't mean a thing.
My buddy and I have turned our attention to Ohio and possibly West Virginia. I believe the Pa Game Commission has been absolutely derelict in their responsibillity to manage the deer herd. In many areas there isn't anything to manage anymore.
The state lands in my area vary. If it's a small piece of land, the deer go toward private land during the hunting seasons. The big woods land I usually hunt have more deer then ever. Personally I don't worry about who hunts with what weapon or when. I use my bow all year long and have just as much fun as ever no matter the season. I seriously Doubt PA is trying to eliminate all the deer. There is too much revenue to be had, and we all know how PA loves to take your money. I do agree that PA has some learning to do as far as our game management, but it isn't all that bad as many seem to think. I could go on and on, but nuff said I think.
It is sad what our deer hunting has come to, and I fear the worst for where it is going. I hunt as hard as I can, and the deer just are not there.
Matt is right, PA is still a great place to live and hunt with all it's state land and variety of game. I just think they need to lay off the deer a little now that the numbers are way down.
You can still find decent numbers in the areas with preferred food. There should be a good deer kill this year with the lack of acorns in the woods. The deer are moving more and concentrated neer the fields. The first saturday of ML I had a dad and his son kill 4 does in a field neer me. They were useing scopped inline muzzleloaders. Two of the deer droped over in front of me. I found them and made sure they found all there dead deer, congradulated them and wished them luck. The dad said he would be back with his other son the next weekend in the junior rifle season to try to kill two more. OH well, the law is the law.
If you have deer to hunt, be thankful and also understanding. The same condition does not exist for everyone in Pa. Some areas are shot out and no amount of scouting will find what isn't there.
Didn't mean to hijack this thread. As Jerry says we could go on and on. But I still give a pass to kids and older hunters. Hope you guys enjoy the rest of the season. I am headed up to Tioga this weeekend and hope to run into a big woods brute!! :)
There are deer all over the place down where I live. Robinson, McDonald, Oakdale areas and out toward West Virginia.
Also I know of some good spots up in Mercer county and see a ton of deer when traveling rt 60 or I79.
The herd is not decimated all across the state. The reason that they needed to kill so many deer was you could see 300 yards through the woods up in the northern central counties. Now that they have made some progress restoring the ecosystem from the previous herds of 50+ deer, they are going to get forced politically to increase the herd before the ecological goals have been reached. Either that or the Game Commission will go out of business or be taken over by teh DCNR.
History will repeat itself.
While I readily lament few sightings myself...here's what else I've learned by careful observation hunting highly pressured areas of public access.
1) I see no deer and don't get busted or blow them out on my way in or way out.
2) I find fresh rubs and scrapes made overnight,in the same area I hunted yesterday and left at dark..and now find them in the dark next AM going back in.
What I've come to believe (can't prove, but logic suggests) is that our local deer have become more sensitive to hunter activity. They've learned to pattern us better'n we pattern them!
We used to see tons of does circle around us all day long...knew we were there, but while keeping a watchful eye, we'd see the same group/groups of does cycle by us repeatedly during the day if we stayed relatively motionless. It was entertaining. We weren't a threat and they tolerated our presence.
NOTE: In PA back then we only shot at does a few days per year...And while we'd see bucks scouting before season or spotlighting when legal, we saw darned few bucks when the hunters hit the woods.
Now I have to wonder if I'm seeing sign overnight regularly...and deer all around on the drive in along roads, but nothing during daylight...have we really dessimated the herd?
Or...or have WE now taught does that they are indeed "prey" and they, like the wily bucks, have changed THEIR behavior to allude us and have gone nocturnal?
If so, there is still "cause and effect" between the more liberal doe shooting ability and the does learning they're prey and making themselves scarce. Bucks continue to be ellusive as bucks always did...till the rut folks say...but not if there is more intense human pressure, then sign suggests breeding and chasing is happening at night! And perhaps "off property" where it's posted???
I still also contend that with the increasing "Patchwork" of available hunting..with so much "NO HUNTING" land interspersed within and among the areas we can hunt...we might just NOT be "encountering" deer during legal shooting times and because we can't see them, we assume they don't exist.
Of course, if you shoot more there are less...but now since we've been hammering more does, what does I do see are now towing behind them not a single yearling, or twins...but freakin TRIPLETS...
Nature abhors a vacuum so it tries to replenish the numbers where food is sufficient. I think that deer have changed their behaviors drastically and their haunts...along with the increased pressure...and we haven't.
Just my thoughts...but phantoms aren't making all the overnight sign I see from the SE to the Central parts where I hunt... yet no deer are seen by any of us sneaking in, staying all day, watching our scent...etc. Deer are there, but not when we are!
FWIW..
Doc,
I agree with you totally. I don't see as many deer in deer season as I used too. I think they have all gotten alot smarter with the concurrent doe and buck rifle season. Along with the increased kill.
One area that I hunted about 2 years after the beginning of concurrent seasons made us think we had completely decimated the herd. It was public ground. We were used to seeing 10 - 20 deer a day and then that 2nd year we hardly saw any.
I hunted that same area the following spring gobbler. There were literally deer all over the place in that same woods. I'd move on a gobbler, only to bump deer and scare the gobbler.
This may not be the case for some areas, but I've seen what you are talking about.
It's not a popular belief...because, I guess, we never want to think that it's us that hasn't changed to meet the changing conditions.
C'ourse, I don't know how you change that the land use surrounding public access hunting has grown increasingly "off limits" providing multiple daylight sanctuaries.
Years ago, as archery locally got more popular, I talked to the "Park" manager at Muddy Run Park. He did drive arounds INSIDE the park daily, 3/day! He said that his records showed (this was 20 years ago already) that the "..by noon of the opening day of archery season, his deer count INSIDE the park had doubled and STAYED that way through the end of January when all seasons closed.
BTW, that is in S. Lancaster County near the river and is surrounded on several sides by State Game Lands and other public access hunting!
I find that fact alone astonishing and now with the fact more doe tags are available, guys are at least shooting AT more does, more often, and then the infamous 7 day Doe MZ season in mid Oct!
That new kinda pressure has to change things when the mere presence of archers alone moved deer on that large a geographic area off public land onto private.
Still means the opportunities to SHOOT deer are restricted/limited/changed, but it doesn't mean the herd is dissimated because "hunters don't see them where they used to..."
"used to" died! :)
With all due respect to the original poster, many people would find your lack of knowing the hunting seasons just as inexcuseable as the apparent disrespect shown by what must have been ignorant (in a different way) hunters.
That being said, you handled it as well as could be expected. Good job.
John
John,
Sorry I skipped/overlooked that they added a special rifle season , in conjunction with our bow season. I have enough to remember with small game hunters, muzzleloaders, turkey . Just think next year my list will get bigger. With what I will have to remember . I'll have to add crossbows to the mix :biglaugh: