Anybody know of a breeder in the OH or MI area? I'm looking for a smaller dog that has the genetics to track, sniff blood trails, maybe a cur or some other breed that has the ability. Not wanting a hound, the noise wouldn't be worth it! It's time to take the stress out of tracking!
You may want to look for a Jagd Terrier.
Here in Ny there is actually a dog tracking service. They use wire-haired datchsunds. Amazing little dogs.
I did see the wire haired dachshund breed for tracking..really cool! However, they're hard to get and expensive...I really don't want to spend more than a couple hundred dollars. At the end of the day I'm confidant I could train a lab to do it, just wanted a smaller dog. Years ago I went on hog hunt with Jeff Massie, he had a great little cur for tracking...and even she was a little big for the job and could pull me through the cactus!
Wired hair dachsunds are unbelievable trackers. Expensive yes. Especially if trained. A friend has a beagle that also does a great job. Less expensive than a dachsund for sure. As I get older the more I think a good tracking dog would be worth its weight in gold.
Ben I am in the same situation as you. I would love to get one of those little Dash's but distance and price make it difficult. Let me know what you come up with.
Terry
My jagdterrier weighs 14 pounds but is small for the breed. I think most of them weigh 18 or more pounds. This breed needs lots of exercise as they are crazy about hunting. They get along good with other dogs too. This is the first one I have ever owned and can say nothing but good about the breed. I don't think you will be able to buy a puppy from a reputable breeder for $200 though. Most ask $400 or more.
Let me second the Jagd. I had one and he was naturally amazing at blood trailing. Tough too with lots of spirit. Maybe more spirit than sense. lol Mine once jumped on and absolutely trounced a full grown dobie!
However let me also say that "needs a lot of excersise might not totally cover it. Maybe mine was exeptional, but he was like a jack russell that had gotten into a meth lab.
I wouldn't want a complete live wire for a dog, he'll be a companion dog as well. I'm really thinking a mountain cur might be the right compromise
I know that getting the right dog is sometimes just dumb luck...there are plenty of muts out there that have a predisposition for tracking, I just don't want the hassle of trying out 7 or 8 dogs to find the one I want. Heck, we have one guy in our trad club that use his house cat to track.
Bill, I agree! worth their wight in gold...my brother (compound shooter) didn't recover a nice deer last week...found it the next week, a good dog would have had him found no problem and relieved much stress from us all! I have found that kids work well also, they see things I just don't pick up, they are shorter and eyes are better.
Wired haired Dachshunds are the tops for tracking. Check out "born-to-track.com"; excellent site and the book he has for sale is great for starting a dog.My wire haired tracked her first dead deer at 6 months of age and it was a 20 hour old track.They tend to be layed back even at a young age.and yes they are very expensive. especially one Johns dogs.
I'm sure that some dogs are better than others, but I love german shephers for pets(great protection for my wife, very loyal and incredibly smart). My previous german shepherd had no formal training but was a wild man for tracking and never failed. He had to be put down a couple of years ago and my wife had some trianing done with our current german shepherd. He is certified search and rescue, but really doens't get too thrilled about finding people. Put him on a blood trail and he never fails. Just an option if you really don't want a smaller dog. If it is legal in your state it can really make your life easier for those late evening shots.
My brothers Jack Russel tracked a bloodtrail and located a deer the first time put on a trail. Neat little dog and good companion. My daughter has a wire-haired dash and it is about 12 weeks old and tracked her bow kill last week. When it would loose the scent it would travel down wind until it picked it up again and then get back on the track. Pretty amazing for a pup I think.
What is a Jagd Terrier?
Ok, now why are Wire Haired Daschunds better trackers than a regular Daschund?
I found this number for a Wire Haired Daschund breeder in Ohio, BTW :937-864-0565
I also have a jagdterrier, if I do ever get an arrow in a deer, she'll get some practice. I've never seen a dog with so much drive and desire to hunt. She is worth her weight in arrows, anytime I miss a target she finds them. I havn't lost an arrow yet. They will hunt gamebirds, sheds, mushrooms, you name they will find it with a little training. Great with people, but will kill anything, they have a lot of "fight" in them. Mine must be supervised with other dogs, she is always BOSS.
Fred is in his second season and doing really well. He just turned two. I would highly recommend John Jeanneney's excellent book "Tracking Dogs for finding Wounded Deer" for anyone wanting to train a dog. It's a great read for the bowhunter too, even if you don't have the desire to own a dog. The deer physiology and explanations of different shot angles, etc. are worth the price! CKruse
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/cdkruse/100_1974.jpg)
Another 2008 find, with some assistance from his big sister! CKruse
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/cdkruse/100_1912.jpg)
Loaded up and ready to rock during our visit to Illinois! CKruse
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/cdkruse/100_1927.jpg)
I'd find some local coonhunters (ya ought to have a few up in michigan)
Tell what you're looking for. You just may find a "closed-mouth" dog or a "trashy" dog for free.
If it's a closed-mouth hound it doesn't do the hunter much good and your issue of the endless howling doesn't arise.
If it's "trashy" it means it runs "trash" (Anything other than a raccon.) If it's a cur or plott you may have a free dog that's a natural.
(As absolutely horrible as this is...you may have to try a few "free" dogs to find one that works. I don't know how you feel on the subject but whether it's to the pound or to shade tree you gave it a second lease on life and it's end is no worse than it would have been. Coonhunters, as group, are pretty old-schooled and don't really get teary-eyed when "that dog won't hunt.")
Cameron,
Beautiful dog...glad she is doing so well for ya.
Look like he loves the ATV rides :clapper:
I owe a big debt to these dogs :notworthy:
Thanks for the tip on the book, I just ordered one. Should be here in a week.
We have a very smart little crossbred terrier that I think will do great with a bit of training. Going to give her a go.
Mike
I've been working my German Shorthaired Pointer on birds this summer and after reading more about his heritage and breeding decided to work him on 2 does my son shot w/ his ML last weekend. He's almost 1 yo and eager to learn and please.
He followed us from the house on the atv. While I was getting the lantern out he was 40 yards in front of us nosing the blood trail. He didn't point, but found it and was curious.
We let him follow it and encouraged him along until he walked right up on the doe.....He started back pedaling and growling...it was funny as he'd growl and look at me to see if it was ok....We praised him and he was proud.
We drug that doe out and went for #2. He did the same, but with a little more vigor... I'm going to try to take another dozen does off the farm this year, so hopefully by season end he'll figure this thing out.
I just hope he doesn't point a deer while quail hunting, but Lord knows there a heck of alot more deer than quail in my parts of KY.
GSP's are an awesome breed and prob the most "clingy" and child oriented dog I've ever been around. They were bread in Germany as an all hunting dog. Upland birds, ducks, furred animals, and trailing. I believe them to be underutilized as just upland bird dogs.
(http://www.orba42.com/photopost/data//501/medium/DSCF0726.JPG)
There is a fellow in my home town in Michigan that offers a deer tracking service. I spoke with him a couple weeks ago about his services after a friend lost a buck he had shot and I was unable to help him look for it that day. I'm not sure what type of dog he has but I'm thinking he said it was some sort of dashound. Here is a link to his web site if it will help you in some way.
http://scouttracker.blogspot.com/
Zilla, there is a line of wire hairs from Europe that have been bread for tacking ability..not the same as wire hairs that have been bred for show quality...the tracking blood line is expensive, not many around (that's my understanding anyway)
Thanks for the responses folks, great feedback and you've given me plenty to contemplate.
Wingnut - you're doing exactly what I want to do, find a good scrute (crossbred) that's smart and has a nose and train it to track...I know they're out there and don't cost $1000! I wouldn't mind spending a couple 3 hundred on a dog but more than that seems like a lot when I know there's dogs out there with the predisposition to track that need a good home.
Ben, The gentelman that I got my youngest plott from was planning a breeding between his leopard cur and one of his plotts. I would think he would have them in the next few months. Also there is a free 5 month old plott male in Reading, MI on the UKC's coonhound classifieds, I beleive this is the brother to my young male(timing seems to be right) and he comes from a line of good cold nosed hounds. My intentions when he gets a little older and less rambunktious is to train him to track as well. Hope I helped
David Darling
Augusta, MI
Ckruse - May I ask where you acquired your dog....really nice looking dog and kid friendly, my kind of pup.
David, heck yes that helps. But you have to tell what the heck a cold nosed hound and a leopard cur is. All I've ever owned is labs, they were all well trained and great companions, when it comes to other breeds I have some learning to do.
on a thread just like this 2yrs ago a guy recomended a drathaar which is a german wirehair from Germany. I've bought 2 since then. Best dogs ever...point, retrieve, and blood trail. Here's a web site www.vomkervinshof.com (http://www.vomkervinshof.com)
Ben, I actually imported him from Germany. I took a small vacation beginning the day after Thanksgiving two years ago. Fred was 9 weeks old at the time, and I actually got to go hunting with some of his kin. I also got to do some hands on tracking training with the breeder who is a quite accomplished trainer all over Europe. Fred is set to sire some puppies here in the states soon. The gene pool for hunting Dachshunds in the USA is quite limited. That's not to say other dogs can't be trained, it's just that after researching this for a couple of years I wanted to put my efforts into a high-probability prospect. John and Jolanta Jeanneaney were an invaluable help in getting me prepared for my trip and an asset to anyone wanting to train a blood tracker. Their website is www.born-to-track.com (http://www.born-to-track.com) Another small but steadily growing organization is www.unitedbloodtrackers.org (http://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org) CKruse
Ben, a cold nosed hound is a dog that can find a track that is older with a little less scent in it(would help on finding a deer that you had to wait a while to find) and a leopard cur is a cur that is spotted like a leopard for lack of a better term. I have 2 plotts now and they are wonderful dogs extremely smart and very affectonate(sp?). Here is a link to the ad for that free pup http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=231505 and if you go to the UKC home page you can find out a lot about the different breeds and their standard temperment.
David
LoweBow
Thats great!! i have had my eye on a German short hair for tracking deer,when my Rotti passes away shes getting old.Please keep us up dated, my only concern would how hyper they get, being breed for field trails
Here is a picture of our german shepherd with a deer he tracked that my wife shot 2 seasons ago. He has only had to track a few times, but he has been on the money each time. Our dogs can track either on leash or off. I'm not real convinced that you need one particular breed over another to track deer.
Not to make anyone jealous, but my wife shot this deer in the evening while I was in NY. She went back to the house for the dog. Dog tracked the deer easy as can be. She went back and got a horse to drag the deer back to the house. By the time I got home 5 hours later, she had already gutted it , skinned it, cut up the meat and was in the process of packaging it up.
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/09300620Joss20hunting.jpg)
Ben he's a rundown of stuff you might come across in Hound ads:
Cold-nosed: very sensitive nose that can track an old or "cold" trail.
Hot-nosed: Will pass up or not pick up old trails in preference for a newer/fresher trail.
Bawl: The mouth or bark of the dog, "Great bawl" or "big bawling" would be a loud clear voice
Open on track: Barks/bawls as soon as they pick up a track, not just when they tree
Closed on track: Opposite of open on track. Silent during the run and only "opens" when the game is treed.
Far runner, Wide hunter, Far ranging....these all refer to how far away from the hunter a dog will go to find a track before they "check in" with the hunter. For example, if you're on horseback hunting cougars you'd want a far or "wide" ranging dog. If you're hunting rabbits on foot you'd want a close hunter.
If a dog is "broke", that's generally good. Means they won't run "trash". In your case this may be bad since deer are usually on the list of what dogs need "broke" from.
Trash: any game other than what the hunter wants the dog to run.
That's not everything but it's the best I can remember.
Good luck, a good dog is worth a lot of trouble to find.
jack russels are the way to go. i have 2 of them and they were born to track. i think they have the best nose i've ever seen on a dog. i jsut sold my last pup though.
Tilly was supposed to be bred to one of the Jeanneaney stud dogs this past August but she fooled me by not coming into heat. Now she needs to work for her room & board ;) Hopefully she'll be bred in the winter or spring...Doc
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Tilly/Tilly08006.jpg)
pdk25, I'd have to agree with you. If you only require a dog to track a deer once a year, if that, I doubt breed matters a whole lot.
Two years ago my dad's Boxer tracked a deer for us..he went through a small patch of woods and went to the deer which was in a huge field with high prairie grass.
With that said, I'd look into a dog that makes a good family member..been desiring a Coonhound for quite some time..perhaps one of these days :)
Plus, you've proven even a horse can track..
Hattrick,
Here's one of many great reads to research what a GSP has to offer. Their history, breeding, training, etc.
http://www.terrificpets.com/dog_breeds/german_shorthaired_pointer.asp
I received this pup by accident and really didn't know much about GSP's, but always wanted a bird dog as my best friend was a field trialer. He helped me work w/ him and and I also read all I could. He's come along well, but I've been horrible since deer season came in, but really I don't think there anything I couldn't teach this dog..he's just that eager to please.
He sleeps in my 10 yo's bed everynight. He is my son's best freind and companion. He's been a blessing to my family. I have other dogs, but will always be a GSP owner from this point forward. They are a very active dog "hyper", but an atv and some land will keep them in shape and help burn up some of that energy. 30 mph for a few miles is easy for him. They are not for all families because of this energy.
The article does a pretty good job of hitting all the high points and low points of GSP ownership. I've had English Springer Spaniels and Labs all my life and they are awesome family dogs, but I've come to the conclusion that there are dogs and there are GSP's.
Here's a quote from another article about their history.
The German Shorthaired Pointer combined in field-dog requirements those qualities which have long popularized the various breeds of hunting dogs. Through judicious crossing of the descendants of the old Spanish Pointer, English Foxhound, and local German tracking hounds, the breed has acquired a keen scenting power linked with high intelligence, leading to its reputation as an ideal all-purpose dog. The breed is proficient with many different types of game and sport, including trailing, retrieving, and pointing pheasant, quail, grouse, waterfowl, coons, possum, and even deer.
The origin of the German Shorthaired Pointer, as with most breeds, is not clear, but the source of basic foundation stock seems to have been the German Bird Dog, related to the old Spanish Pointer, and various crossings with local German scent hounds and track and trail dogs (Schweisshunde). When the Germans finally introduced the fine English Pointers to lend elegance to the German Shorthaired Pointer prototype, the result was a magnificent utility dog that combined sporting virtue with clean lines, good looks, sound temperament and longevity. The German Shorthaired Pointer was first admitted to the AKC Stud Book in 1930, with the first specialty and field trial sponsored by the parent club held in the same year, 1941.
Nothing wrong with Choco Labs. (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=064523;p=1)
Todd
i have a cur and a blue lacey. the lacey is an awesome dog .my cur is a big one he is 89 lbs and the lacey is 42lbs.
http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/dogs/tx_blue_lacy.htm
Great feedback, than you all so much
I will say one big factor that helped convince me to lean toward the Wirehaired Dachs. I coon hunted a fair amount in my younger days and have been dragged through the brush by many a big coonhound! The Labs and GSP's as well as many other large breeds often times work out well for tracking. Some are really outstanding. I'm just not enthralled by being pulled through a tangle of briars, downed limbs, and multiflora rose by anything larger than about 23 pounds! And beleive me, when the trail is hot, they will ALL pull. We have had some hellacious tracks in the last two seasons due to tornado and ice storm damage. Now if you live in bad snake country, or you are in Texas where dogs can track off-leash, the larger breed may be the ticket. And thats coming from someone who was always a "Big Dog" guy! I think if I didn't have Fred I would be leaning toward a Jagdterrier or a Jack Russel. But,in my limited experience with them, they don't posess as cold of a nose as the Dachs. In Europe to earn the blood trailing titles they are required to do a 20 hr and 40 hr aged trail. They also do a "scent shoe" trail using only hoof scent. If a dog is capable of that, it makes those overnight 12 hour tracks a cakewalk. The Jeanneaney book also has some great reference into breed selection. Not to offend anyone, but I don't buy too much into the theory that "any old dog will track if trained". If that were the case everyone would have old shep lined out for tracking his deer. There is a tremendous difference in taking the family pet out an hour after a deer is shot, and a dog that can take a track that's half a day old that has been criss crossed by live critters of all type and variety and put a dead deer at the end of it. JMHO- FWIW- CKruse
"Not to offend anyone, but I don't buy too much into the theory that "any old dog will track if trained". If that were the case everyone would have old shep lined out for tracking his deer. There is a tremendous difference in taking the family pet out an hour after a deer is shot, and a dog that can take a track that's half a day old that has been criss crossed by live critters of all type and variety and put a dead deer at the end of it.
I agree that not necessarily every dog is going to be adequate for the task, but every dog has a good enough nose for it. They just may not have the drive or understanding. Our current german shepherd can track a persons track 8 hours old, no blood, over grass and asphalt, with multiple crossing tracks. That is actually more difficult than almost any tracking job in the woods is going to be. He actually is even better when it comes to deer. I doubt that all dogs or all breeds will be this good necessarily but I think that alot of them can be. I'm only suggesting rather than getting a dog for the sole purpose of tracking(unless you plan to make a business of it), it might be wise to consider a dog that makes a great pet that can also perform tracking. It doesn't hurt that our dog is attack trained as a protection dog for my wife.(was only 10 months old in the photo).JMHO
PS I wonder why they don't use bloodhounds? I think they are generally recogized as having one of the best noses are very dedicated to the track.
QuoteOriginally posted by DBerrard:
pdk25, I'd have to agree with you. If you only require a dog to track a deer once a year, if that, I doubt breed matters a whole lot.
Two years ago my dad's Boxer tracked a deer for us..he went through a small patch of woods and went to the deer which was in a huge field with high prairie grass.
With that said, I'd look into a dog that makes a good family member..been desiring a Coonhound for quite some time..perhaps one of these days :)
Plus, you've proven even a horse can track..
That is one dead broke mare. We considered taking her to the game lands during hunting season in PA and charging people to drag their deer out. She doesn't care much about gunfire and would rather die than let something beat her. She just digs in harder and will drag logs if need be. She was my wife's show reining horse before being retired to be bred.
Now that a good horse! I've got an uncle that raises cutting and reining horses and have always been amazed by their agility and reflexes. I think there are a number of Bloodhounds being used for tracking dogs. Just not as common as some of the other breeds. CKruse
I would stay clear of the Mountian Cur. I like a good Cur, but do not think the breed is best suited for trailing. I had one that was a good squirrel dog, but he LOVED deer. I left him many times in the woods when he would run a deer. Also most Curs are medium sized dogs, mine was upwards of 50 lbs. Try looking into a Boykin Spaniel. These are small dogs that get along well with kids, other dogs, etc.... They have great noses and are VERY smart and can be trained to do anything. Get a Boykin, when he is not blood trailing you can use him on the dove field or in the duck blind!
God Luck
My rhodesian ridgeback is showing good promise for tracking. He's huge, of course, about 105 lbs, but he's pretty quick, great endurance, and he's a great family dog too. Haven't needed to bloodtrail this year. But he's been cutting pig trail, looks up at me like, "heres pigs dad...can we go after them?" For the amount of times I have to bloodtrail animals he'd be fine for the job.