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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Crash on October 18, 2008, 10:11:00 PM
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Arthritis in the fingers of my drawing hand are forcing me down in draw weight so I am going to buy a high performing longbow to try and offset the loss of poundage. I have shot the Morrison Shawnee with Dakota foam core and carbon back limbs but I have not had the opportunity to shoot an ACS-CX. For those of you that have, which grip did you like better and which bow gives the best performance with a heavy arrow. I will be shooting an arrow in the 530 to 550 grain range. Thanks for the help.
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Oh, forgot to add, I did a search and saw where some people had problems with the ACS-CX hitting their forearm. Let me know about this as well.
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I can answer that question easy, get a static tip curve(like dryad orion or black mountain sheepeater) if you want a high performance bow, get one with tonkin cores, makes your draw wieght feel lighter, and I can tell the difference performance wise with the static tips
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I have shot both and I like the Morrison grip alot better. The grip on the A&H caused the fletching to take a bite out of my hand every time. That being said, the grip is "Personal" what works for me may not fit you. Make sure if you buy a used Morrison you check the guide pin depth. Check his web site for the News.....
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I have both bows. The ACS CX is a very nice bow, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. In my opinion you could not go wrong with the ACS CX, and John and Larry at A&H are good guys who will go out of their way to help you. HOWEVER, in my mind the Morrison has the ACS CX beat by a fairly wide margin in beauty and feel. The Shawnee with the foam/carbon limbs is just about the best longbow on the market. The Morrison ILF with the longbow limbs might just be a little better though. I have both and they are spectacular bows. If I had my choice of only one, it would be the ILF with the foam/carbon longbow limbs. Furthermore, there is no finer gentleman than Bob Morrison whom I am glad to count among my friends. There are some other bows out there that are in the running too, but none that actually top the Morrison you have shot. I assume you liked it? In response to your question about the ACS CX hitting my forearm, I have not had that problem. I believe that would be a function of the grip and how the bow is held. Everyone has different hands and some grips fit better than others. I like the grip on the ACS CX very much. It is smaller than many grips, and I have size large hands, but it feels good to me. Still, the Morrison grip, especially the "low" grip (which is not that low) fits me as well as any grip I have ever held. I would recommend the Morrison on all counts. It seems to be about the same speed as the ACS CX and in all other categories I think it is superior. That is just my opinion, but that is what you asked for and that is what you get.
Allan
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Morrison
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I only own 2 bows. I have had others but the 2 I still have and plan to keep are my Morrison and A&H ACS-CX. I do have to say the ACS is the only bow I need an armguard for, not that I would need it every shot but better safe than sorry. About the fletching biting the bow hand, I prefer to shoot off an elevated rest. I use a customized Hoyt hunter rest so it doesn't matter for me. But, when I first got my ACS I tried the stock off the shelf set up and had the same experience as DesertDude. After finding what works for me I love the performance of the bow, very fast and very quiet. I also like my new Morrison Mini 14 ilf, although it's a recurve and you ask about longbows, the Morrison low grip is the best I have tried. The Morrison ilf will let you use many different limb styles and manufactures and you have about 5 pounds of adjustment in draw weight. If you like speed you can shoot some really light arrows safely using some of the ilf limbs that are available. You might like them both so get one of each. If money only grew on trees...
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Morrison. I've owned both. I had the problem with the ACS hitting my forearm. The only way I could keep the string from hitting my arm was to alter my grip. I thought I was just having bad form or something, but I talked to a few others that said the same thing. I'm about to get my 2nd Morrison. They are works of art and shoot great
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I honestly don't own either but my good friend has several of both brands and I've tried them out.
The Morrisons are nice bows, the fit and finish was good but not the best. There was a fair amout of file marks and sanding scratches on both of his Morrisons. The performance was good but they both had fairly low brace heights which can give any bow a good boost. The grip was really nice.
The acs I shot had a better fit and finish although the area around the limb butt didn't fit the riser as nice as the Morrison. Speedwise it seemed a fair bit quicker and it had atleast 1" more brace height. The acs seemed like a better built bow that could take alot of abuse and was pretty quiet, even without silencers.
The best thing to do before you lay down the big money for one of these babies is try one out for yourself, everyone's different. I would get the acs myself.
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I have shot both and owned both. All the way from one of the first ACS longbows built by O.L. up to an A&H ACS CX. I have owned many Morrisons from the Cougar longbow to my current Cheyenne. My vote is for the Morrison and I have never seen a mark on a brand new morrison, everyone I have seen or held has been flawless. Gonna get me a mini14 ILF curve soon.
Danny
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I had this same quandry earlier in the year. Of the two which to get?
I eventually decided on the Morrison (60" Shawnee, carbon/foam longbow limbs) & I loved it...right up to the very shot that broke it! :eek:
Now believe it or not, I'm not trying to put you off here, quite the opposite in fact. I rang Bob the same day & returned the limbs for his inspection. He could not have handled the situation better. The limbs are being replaced (as we speak) with some at 62" on Bob's suggestion. The new limbs will be of a slightly different design with a beefed up fade/taper. Mine was the 4th that had gone in exactly the same place, in exactly the same way (Whilst at full draw. No creaks, no warning at all)
As someone who's pretty much worked in customer service, in one way or another, my whole life, I've come to the opinion that the true measure of good service is how things are dealt with when they go belly-up. Bob & Barb have been the best folks I have ever dealt with in a situation like this. I am 100% confident I'll be delighted with the new limbs (I certainly was before! Talk about fast and quiet :eek: ) when they arrive in a couple of weeks.
Honestly, I don't regret my choice one iota & I still fondle the medium grip 'A' riser (In Ebony & Tulip) at every opportunity!
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Looks like Morrison is winning in a landslide, wonder where all the ACS guys are?
Thanks for the responses guys. It's not easy laying down $1,300 for a bow.
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They're all logged on to Bob's website ;) :D
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I've shot them both and own four Morrison's, that should give you my opinion. Ditto on all everyone has said about dealings with Bob and Barb, finest folks in the business.
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Originally posted by Crash:
Looks like Morrison is winning in a landslide, wonder where all the ACS guys are?
Out killin stuff :knothead:
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i have shot both. I OWN AN ACS CX. everything everybody says is true; you can encounter some forearm slap and some fletching bite on your hand IN THE BEGINNING!!! the problem is most guys shoot these bows for a week and give up. if you are committed to working at it a bit and receiving the full potential of this bows design and efficiency YOU WILL BE REWARDED!!! this bow is beyond high performance, it is a formula one racer, and like all things that are truly high performance, a bit tempermental. it is true that the morrison is easier to shoot from a stand point of picking both up right out of the box. in my opinion i shoots more like a recurve. all that being said i love morrisons and think that they are the second best bow on the market today from a STANDPOINT OF PERFORMANCE. in my hand however there is no equal to the acs cx. this reply is not meant to offend any of you morrison shooters out there it is simply my experience and my opinion. get the acs, work with it, you will never look back.
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i own both....i've never had the problem with forearm slap....customer service is great with both companies. i have a bum shoulder this year and can't shoot everyday like i am used to doing. i picked up some lower weight acs limbs and they are going to save my season. it is the only bow that i can shoot such a wide range of arrow spines and hit where i am looking with the "first" shot. Take the time to find an A & H to shoot before you make your decision...or just go ahead and order one of each! ;)
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I currently have 4 ACS CX bows and another on order.. They are easy to hit with, quiet and exceptionally fast. My "go to" bow without a doubt... Part of the reason for that is I can shoot them better than any of the other bows I have shot.
BTW, Larry and John of A&H are absolutely TOP SHELF folks..
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The ACS is fast and quiet, but he grip was horrible for me. Could not shoot the bow for beans. I prefer the Morrison by a long shot.
Incidentally, the finish and quality of the Morrisons I've had, (and I've had a few), was always flawless.
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I have had both. I worked them through the chrono and the speed was virtually identical. I ordered a new Morrison this spring and the day I got it, the riser broke. I sent it back for replacement along with the limbs which were on it at the time, for repair. The foam core snakeskin limbs broke on a different riser on the first shooting session with them. I sent them back for replacement. The limbs which were supposedly repaired arrived and mounted. Within five arrows the carbon belly broke at the repair point. After arguement I got a replacement set with a statement that although they were new in stock limbs, there would be no warrantee on them. I did get my money back for the first bow. I was told by Mr. Morrison that he was not concerned with what had happened as one unhappy customer would not affect his reputation. I currently own 2 ACS bows with plans to get another for my wife. I do not have any trouble with string slap or feather clearance, and the guys at A&H have been great to work with.
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I own and shoot an ACS CX and have never had a problem with arm slap. My wife still makes fun of the face I made after the first time I shot it at Compton a couple years ago. She said that she new after that first shot, I was buying that bow. I think John had to pry it out of my hand, so they could close up the vendor tent that night. I came back first thing in the morning and bought it. Loved that bow ever since! I have even managed to kill a few things with it.
I have owned a couple of Bob's bows over the years and all were great shooters, fit and finish was excellent, and having talked to Bob at couple shoots, I can say Bob is a great guy to deal with. This year at Compton, I shot alot of different bows from many vendors, including Bob's new foam core longbow limbed shawnee. My wife had asked me what I thought of the different bows and although some were nice and some not so nice ((shiver)), I told her the only bow that truly impressed me was the Morrison bow. Very smooth, very quick and quiet. The grip does have a little more meat to it than the ACS CX, however I really prefer the smaller grip ACS CX. I will never part with my ACS CX and in fact, plan on ordering a new one someday, like that 16 inch riser! And I didn't buy the Morrison that I shot at Compton, but wouldn't mind owning one, like a 62" Shawnee with foam carbon longbow limbs!
I guess I am not helping you out much with your decision and am more responding to the comment on "where all the ACS shooter are". I didn't post earlier, not because I don't recommend the ACS or think the Morrison would be a bad choice. But, more because the choice is between two bows that both shoot fast, quiet, look great, and have great customer service. The small things that make me prefer one over the other, I can't really tell you. Even if I could, you may not agree. The best I can recommend is shoot both if it at all possible. I know you hear that all the time, but in the end what works for me, might not work for you.
Good luck in your choice and be sure to post pictures of which ever one you get!
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Lefty and I agree. They are both great bows and either one would probably serve you well. Most people would love to have either of them because they are top of the line bows. It all comes down to personal preference. I'm not going to sell my ACS CX just because I prefer the Morrisons, because both of them are lots of fun to shoot. No one can argue with Rod Jenkins when he shoots the ACS CX. He can outshoot all of us, and if he says his bows are the best, then they definitely are -- for him. I shoot the Morrisons a little better, but not much, and I think the Morrisons are more attractive too, feel better in my hands, and are smoother with the foam core limbs (with or without the carbon backing). I'm glad I have not had problems like JJ Johnston has. Owning and regularly shooting 7 Morrison bows, including Shawnees, Cheyennes and an ILF, I have never had any of the problems that JJ relates, although I don't doubt he is being totally accurate in what he reports. I would say that he appears to be a lightening rod for problems with Morrison bows that probably keeps the rest of us from having any problems ourselves. :D I know that Bob Morrison has his share of warranty issues just like every other bowyer or manufacturer of any product does. I imagine Larry and John at A&H could tell you stories about some of the failures on the ACS CX bows, and I know there have been some. That is one of the reasons that they beefed up the tips over the older O.L. design. That is why you want to deal with people of high quality like Bob, John and Larry. All I can say is that you are asking something like which is better, a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, and the answer is that both are great, high performance machines with some pluses and some minuses, but in the end it is which one works best for you. Try them both and see which one you like the most. You have already shot the Morrison Shawnee with the foam/carbon limbs, so you know what Bob Morrison's top of the line feels like. Now find someone with an ACS CX and try it out. You are not going to make a mistake either way. If you were around Oklahoma City, I would be glad to let you shoot my bows and decide for yourself which you like better. I also have Brackenburys, Shrews, a Holm-Made, Blacktails, and some others built by bowyers you might not recognize, and I think they are all great and nice to shoot for different reasons, but you only asked about two of them. Trying to pick a favorite bow is like choosing which of my children I prefer. It is almost an impossible choice overall, but I do recognize the good and not so good points about each of them. All that said, I still think you may be happier with a Morrison if you have to choose only one without trying each of them before you buy. I like my solution better: buy at least one of each and enjoy them without having to pick the "best"!
Allan
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I have owned both a Cheyenne w/ foam core limbs and a ACS-CX. For me the grip has work with me in getting a consistant relationship with my bow hand. Neither one of these bows did that...for me. Now for many others they must like the grips. I found another recurve that, for me, is light years ahead in this important feature. If you can't consistantly hit what you are looking at it to me it doesn't matter how fast it shoots or how it looks...even though I do love this other bowyers bows the best for craftsmanship and beauty! You really need to shoot both and see if they work for you.
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I own 3 ACS CX-including one with early OL limbs. I really liked my Morrison-and my Fedora too-but they are gone and not missed.
I went to the ACS to drop down from 58# to 49#-did not loose any OOMPH, and continued to shoot the same arrows!
At the high end I think the choice between bows is purely a personal one-like cuffs on trousers.
Sorry, I can't comment on the part about the I think you mean 'string' hitting the arm.
Frankly that's nothing to do with the bow-that is a shooter issue. I never wear an arm guard with any bow, except to keep clothing out of the way.
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Me thinks this thread has took on a air of mudslinging...which is not needed, with all the outstanding bows out there!
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I have both the A&H and the Morrison Shawnee and they both are great bows and great people that sell these bows!!I have never had a problem with arm slap at all.Both bows are high end preformers with high end prices and for me they are here to stay.My Morrisons are low grips and i love Bob's bows.The grips seem like they were made for my style of shooting.The A&H is a sweet grip (14 in riser) and the small grip is again my style of shooting and i have no problem going from bow to bow.Both bows preform as any high end bow should fast/ quiet/ and hits where you look with no hand shock at all.Iwould be more than happy with either of these 2 bows if i only owned 1 bow.You would be happy with either
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I own 2 ACS bows.They are my go to hunting bows.Never shot a morrison but I'm sure they are great also.As with any bow: tuning and technique are key.I agree with Bjorn: arm slap is a shooter issue not a bow issue.
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It seems to me your issue is to drop weight and get high performance. I did the same. Had O.L. build me a bow 14 lbs lighter then my previous bow. Guess what? The lighter Adcock bow shot as flat as the heavier bow. Plus, its the only bow I've owned that SHOT WHERE I WAS LOOKING! Friends that shoot with me can't believe it's a very light bow. Biff
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That's exactly my issue Biff. I went thru all that I found here and relayed it to my wife and she said order the big bow, she can't remember ACS-CX, so I have an in-stock ACS headed my way tomorrow. Thanks to all who responded, it helped alot.
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Congrats, both are excellent bows. My ACS-CX (62"65@28) shoots great, quiet, no hand shock and quick. I'll order another next month for my birthday.
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Whew!! That was tougher than electing a president! :bigsmyl:
Allan
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Thank you! I needed that!! LOL :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
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I own a 58# ACS CX have been shooting it for about 4 months now! :D Performance.... second to none, fastest flatbow I've ever shot. Maybe on par or better than my 60# Quest recurve?! As for string slap and fletch contact, I had both but realised that the bow needed tweeking. :knothead: Nocking point raised and grip changed I now have none of those problems. :notworthy:
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No kidding Allen.
When I called yesterday to place the order, it was the second time I had talked to them. I spent 20 minutes on the phone last Wednesday with all sorts of questions. After we completed everything yesterday, he said "If you have any problems with tuning or anything else, call and we will help you", can't ask for more than that.
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Between Dad and I, we have 5 ACS longbows. If you are looking at the 3 piece then I would encourage you to go with the low-wrist grip. Dad had a high-wrist 3-piece and I have a hard time going from my low-wrist or my one-piece and shooting his with accuracy. My whitetail bow is a one-piece O.L. ACS-CX that is 49@28". Sweetest bow I have shot. My arrow weight is also 530gr.
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My vote is for the ACS. I just bought the standard grip and shoot 600gr arrows and they fly wonderfully. I'm shooting 49#s at a 25" draw.
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i voted too late i guess. congrats and you'll love it!
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ACS CX... It has taken me a little while to get the grip down, but the bow is my favorite bow to shoot ever... A couple suggestions I'd offer:
1. Use a double nock. At first I thought I just forgot how to shoot, but the arrow was sliding down the string upon release and hitting the back of the shelf and causing crazy arrow flight... (I shoot 3 under)...
2. Make sure the nock is high enough. I'd start at 5/8 at the low end...
3. Get comfortable with the grip. Most recurve shooters have no problem, but coming from a longbow/lowwrist grip, at first I was having real difficulty with arm slap... When I held the bow differently, the problem dissolved.
If I "heeled down" on the bow, I would get terrible are slap and some serious gashes. So I got an arm guard, didn't help... The arrow flew irradict when the string hit the arm guard. "Heel down isn't the way to shoot this bow. If you shoot heel down, I'd say get the low wrist riser...
4. You'll probably need stiffer arrows than you use to. For example if you shoot a 45 lbs. hybrid longbow and shoot Carbon Express 150's out of it... I don't know for sure, but I doubt the 150's will be stiff enough for the ACS CX at the same 45 lbs... This bow is very quick..
5. Get ready to sell all your other bows.. The ACS is by far the best bow I have shot. I have shot almost every bow I can think of....
Steve
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This will be the only bow I have Steve. I have been selling off bows since I couldn't handle the weight anymore, then I needed to raise some serious jack to afford this one. Thanks for the advice.
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You won't regret getting the ACS. I own two Morrisons, one I just bought from you, and they are great shooting bows. I also just aquired a 58" ACS with the 16" riser and absolutely love it. My ACS is fast, smooth, stable and forgiving. The latter being very important to me since I have had two right shoulder surgeries and fixin' on having another as soon as huntin' seasons over.
James
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I have owned two A&H's and own two Morrison, I would like to have the A&H limbs on a Morrison low grip Shawnee riser.
They both are great high end bow's. :thumbsup:
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You made the right choice :)
Both are great bows, but I think what you get when you ask the question you have, as many have before you, is very polarized views because in terms of feel and style they are rather different. Both are great performers however.
Personally I prefer the ACS (I should as I have 5 of them), I tried the Morrison and it just didn't do it for me, great bow but not for me, which was a disappointment as I really wanted to love it as it was a great looking bow.
One thing you mentioned was arrow weight which is why I'm posting after the event, I favor a nice heavy arrow and the ACS will take anything you can stick through it. I reguarly shoot 600+ grn 80# spine woods and super light Ali's through my 45# ACS, it can deal with anything and being cut past center you can tune the bow to the arrows.
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The only thing I would add on the ACS, I like the longer limbs. Had a set of 50#, 64" long limbs I traded for 55#, 62" long limbs. The 64" limbs out shot the 62" limbs by a whole bunch more than just a little.
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I like the ACS, and agree with RRock on the point about the 64" vs 62".
I'll admit that it took a little while to get used to it. But once the bow and I came to terms on the grip, everything's been sweet:).
TM