There's a small controversy brewing in a small town named Packwood, not far from Seattle. For years, the elk have wondered through town eating and trampling plants or just doing what elk do.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/lwscott/cityelk.jpg)
Some complaints have resulted in the state proposing to allow archers to elk hunt in the city. Not only are animal rights folks opposed, but some hunters are against it also because of the potential public relations nightmare that could result.
I would not hunt them in town, but I would find out where they are entering the town and try to ambush them on the way in.
QuoteOriginally posted by shawn:
I would not hunt them in town, but I would find out where they are entering the town and try to ambush them on the way in.
I agree, unless there was a large open lot or field in town.
Especially if I saw an elk with const. fence in its antlers, that could end up in a miserable death to that young bull.
Unfortunately this is societys fault in moving in on the elk. They were here first. I think this is the DNR's responsibility to relocate these elk since we took their habitat away from them. Hopefully they(government) do better than they did with the indians. Then I think it's right to go out and hunt them. Not while they ate out of someones flower bed.IMHO
mmm depends if they where a problem and deemed a nuisance or risk then they could be culled. if they are thinking to use bows over guns for sound or safety reasons due to them being within the town don't see a problem with that, provided its done out by a professional and like above it can be done when they leave or enter the town.
QuoteOriginally posted by shawn:
I would not hunt them in town, but I would find out where they are entering the town and try to ambush them on the way in.
I agree, shooting one in the middle of town could do more harm to hunting then good.
Ideally they could be relocated to more open ground. If they frequent the town they are most likely used to people, hunting them there may not exactly be "fair chase"
We get deer eating stuff in our garden daily-my wife gets pissed! LOL!
I would not want the Elk's death filmed by PETA under any circumstances-legal or not.
I'll take my chances hunting them in the bush by myself.
I wish they would have handled it without it making the National News, now every hunter in the state will be there for the late season...PR
We have the same problem here in Colorado ( Estes Park) for the most part, they don't migrate in and out of town, even if they did I don't think the word "hunting" would apply..it's a kin to shooting fish in a barrel..so NO I wouldn't shoot one, I think Traditional archery hunters (especially)should insist on FAIR CHAISE and promote our sport as ethically as possible..to mount one of these elk on your wall and brag about it would be WRONG..at least that is the way I see it...
QuoteOriginally posted by shawn:
I would not hunt them in town, but I would find out where they are entering the town and try to ambush them on the way in.
I agree if they came into town they gotta get out.
I don't think relocating is feasible. Maybe elk are easier than deer. I remember some horrible stats about a deer relocation effort. Something like $50,000 per deer and the majority of them died from stress.
I would not call it hunting, but I would get my fence back!!!!
Apex has it right. Relocating kills more of them than it helps. We have similar urban deer problems in CT. Different towns have proposed everything from limited hunts to bringing in sharpshooters or "professional hunters". I've met one man that makes a very good living doing just that. The towns where he 'works' are very quiet about it and so is he.
You may not be able to properly call it hunting, but it our responsibility to do something about it. We're the ones (humans in general) who have thrown the entire ecosystem out of whack and we're the ones who have to deal with the consequences, be it dealing with an overpopulation of animals in the town or woods, or reducing (or eliminating) the harvest of certain animals due to a low population.
We may not always like what we're called upon to do as stewards of the land, but that doesn't absolve us of the responsibility.
Devils advocate here. So. we pay (and I think WE is the right word if the DNR does it) to move the animals somewhere out of town, then we get to shoot them after we paid (again WE) to move them.
This is not hunting, but I would certainly shoot one with my bow right where he stands if that is the decision the town bigwigs come up with. If you don't want to watch , keep yourself and the kids in the house. They can watch TV for another hour, like they probably do for half the day anyway.
If the animal rights folks have a better idea... let them fund it. In the mean time, ever notice how everybody stands around and says " we need to do something" and nobody but a few actually do ?
I can't believe nobody gets hurt when some bull elk or cow with calf starts getting edgy.
ChuckC
North Carolina started an urban hunting season just for this reason.It is up to each community to work out the details. I believe many other states are also doing similar "hunts" and the insurance companies are behind them 100%. Let PITA start paying for some of the damage and they will soon be out of money.
I would participate in helping to remove these elk. You just have to be as stealthy with the PITA heads as with the elk. Pat
QuoteOriginally posted by ChuckC:
If the animal rights folks have a better idea... let them fund it. In the mean time, ever notice how everybody stands around and says " we need to do something" and nobody but a few actually do ?
as Dr Ed would say "Conservationists support wildlife survival - Hunters PAY for wildlife survival"
YES I would hunt those elk. Urban Hunting has become a workable amount of hunting for me. Low cost - close to home - TONS of deer - it's a little awkward in a tree while traffic flying by - and I can hear people talking sometime in their backyards. But filling tags is cool. I use a take down longbow - ride a bicycle - carry my stand on my back - wear plane clothes. It is challenging too in its own way. Anybody thinks it isn't hunting hasn't done it. Try waving at a deer or talking to it - in an urban hedgerow - see how many of those deer walk over for a closer look!
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I can certainly see hunters taking a hit on this one if they are allowed to take a few elk.
Some of the residents are feeding them apples and other treats just because they like seeing them in their backyards. Businesses like them too because the elk have become somewhat of a tourist attraction, bringing in a few dollars to an already depressed logging community.
Something tells me there will be no real winners with this situation. It's too bad the Wildlife agency, hunters, residents, and animal rights people may all end up as villians.
I would shoot a cow or calf.Tried some bull last year and it was tough as nails.Would not care to shoot one of those.
I'm sure the negative publicity we hunters would take would be considerable. Urban hunting is feasible but local sentiment (by "local" I mean regional) would be a big factor. I feel we could gain more by not offending the sensibilities of the non-hunting public who may still see the hunter as a hit-man even if he is addressing a confirmed nuisance. I think Blackhawk boils it down pretty well in his last post. BTW- great deer Lon- Bowdoc showed me your pic. Yowza, Grant
Agree, I'd try ambush them on the way in to town?! Shooting them in town could cause trouble! Even though they are seen as nuisance! J
Sorry but I would hunt( I use that term loosely) them right off a front porch if legal and safe. Something needs to be done and as Jeremy said, it is up to us to do it. I hunt in a bow only area in southern NY and I have hunted deer in peoples back yards more than once. I have seen some amazing things doing this and have never had a problem with anyone in the community complaining about it. Shawn
I don't think hunting is a shameful thing and needs to be done "off camera." There would be some PR problems at first but I am convinced that the more people learn what hunting is really all about the better it is. PETA in contrast would come off as a bunch of freaks as they do whenever they grab media attention. The comparison would help us. OF course, I can't claim certainty on this-Blacktail may be right! :)
YEP!!
The anti's are going to hate us regardless what we do. I'd hunt them and donate the meat to the local food-bank and make sure it was known the meat was going to such an effort. We don't need to cower from PETA and we need to educate the public on the good we can and do make happen.
Put out the statistics on property damage, elk related accidents/deaths and even pay the town a small trespass fee to take care of their elk troubles.
It is all in how it's handled. I also don't see any high fences other than the one on the antlers.
So I live 50 miles from ESTES PARK colorado, which is the Gateway to Rocky mountain National Park...... I kid you not there are elk by the THOUSANDS roaming this town and MANY of them are Trophy Bulls. The Controversy is MASSIVE and the Sollutions are all dead ends. Get it under control fast before it turns into estes park
I don't think it's PETA and those types you have to think about. Their minds are already made up. It is the other "ordinary" citizens that you can either win or lose depending on how the "hunters" handle themselves. I have no problem shooting nuisance animals, the problem as I see it is that you could not make any situation exclusive to those that have impecable ethics. As they say, "build it and they will come". The slobs will turn out and the stereotypes will be seen. Plenty of opportunity for bambi's blood and guts all over the screen. Alot to consider and even though I'm very much pro-hunting, I would not want to set up any situation that could cause animosity or future trouble.
I'm sure there are places to hunt them without being in the spotlight. I've hunted near estes park in CO a few times and it's not walking up and shooting a tame elk. I even had access to the McGreagor ranch one year, still no elk. The elk are still wild. The problem with estes is the enormous amount of private land the elk can not be hunted on, this creates a sanctuary. Therefore, the only thing the elk have to worry about are vehicles :scared: And that's not good as well. There are other urban hunting areas throughout the U.S. I'm sure one could be implemented here successfully.
The elk are only visible at first light they disapear into the hills early AM, I think opening up a few more units to archers might help the problem and maybe extending the bow season till Dec31 might help too, since its too late for cow permits to be drawn...PR
The only problem is that there's always going to be that one bowhunter who does not use his little brain and doesn't wait for that perfect shot, and puts an arrow in the back leg or ham and you've got an elk running around town bleeding with an arrow in it. I've seen it. And to be truthful it's a turnoff to me also, even though bow hunting is my passion.
I am guessing most of you have not carried a bull elk out of a timbered ravine 3 or 4 miles!
Elk on level ground near the cutting board and meat grinder? This is an easy answer for me - hunt them !
And- like in the case of CBS televisions program about the heritage of hunting in America: "The Guns of Autumn" - they took movies from 5 angles of one deer being shot; and then played all several times- one shot looked like a machine gun going off ! So - they will make anything look bad if they want to. Even if you hunt them at night and have a curfew- they will have some protien defecient crying woman holding the hoof of one of them... face it- they are shamelessly cutting down the rainforest to grow soy beans - your not ever going to make them happy.
Treestand would insure arrows go down - not through living room walls and cars; kids etc- and everyone gets to see reality.
There is this assumption that if kids see an elk die they will be traumatized for life- well that could happen; but we are natural born hunters- more kids would be turned onto hunting statistically.
A good way to do this is to make elk summer sausage; and elk burgers; and have a big picnick for the kids at the local school. Once they understand elk taste like candy - they will start making obsidian heads and every turkey and goose for miles will be without primary flight feathers.
Might be best to prime the kids with a few weeks of delicious lima bean meals every day.
Quickest way to mans heart they say is through his stomach.... well ???
I say let them eat elk!!
I would rather they were shot and eaten than hit by a car and left to bloat by the side of the road, at least they would be fit for human consumption. As far as PETA filming me, I would care less, I feel I'm doing nothing wrong when I hunt and it is my God given right, I don't need to hide in a dark corner out of sight from my critics.
Washington has had this type of hunt for years. The elk won't stay in town once the pressure is turned up a little and that's what they are after. Packwood is an old timber community and at least used to have a bunch of hunters.
If I was still a resident of Washington, I would apply for the hunt. Elk meat in the freezer is . . . well elk meat in the freezer.
Mike
I better jump in here as this has been ongoing for 50 years there.Relocateing elk in that area will not work do to the fact the town has been built in the elks area.Where are you going to move them to ??? They are not going to leave town and trapping elk is no good.Especially after last time the game dept tried.The game dept.tried to catch 30 of those elk and ended up only catching 7 and 3 of those died in the process.One got hung up in the nets and was choked to death and two died from stress..now you tell me whats going to work best.....chokeing or stressing them to death or just getting it over rather quickly ? The fact of the matter is....if the towns people whats to get rid of some of the elk they need to alow hunting on thier land...nearly everyplace near that town is posted NO HUNTING and just outside town is also part of the Nat.Park boundry...The towns people are to blame for this one and in no way should our tax bucks help out those people getting rid of a problem they caused...If they would have had controled hunts outside of town on all on thier POSTED land they would not be having this problem they are having now..they refuse to alow hunting as the elk were thier pets.....kind of funny how the worm turned on them huh ? pets to public enemy # 1....... I say relocate the towns people....one way or another....bowdoc
Boy, nothing like having a target on your head!
I'm with bowdoc on this one. Especially if they're feeding them apples and such. It's kinda like feeding a stray dog and then getting mad because it won't leave. They brought this on themselves so maybe they should accomodate the Elk instead.
Letting bowhunters hunt them in or near town would be a bad idea. I know thousands of elk have been killed with archery equipment but in this situation it wouldn't be the best route. I would say that atleast 30-40% of elk, especially bulls that get shot by bow and arrow are wounded and not recovered. I have come to these figures from talking to fellow bowhunters and personal experience. All you would need is 1 elk running around town with an arrow sticking out of it's shoulder and it would get shut down. Sharpshooters with rifles would be the best bet.
I'm with the Bow Doc.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/cityelk.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by j yenney:
The only problem is that there's always going to be that one bowhunter who does not use his little brain and doesn't wait for that perfect shot, and puts an arrow in the back leg or ham and you've got an elk running around town bleeding with an arrow in it. I've seen it. And to be truthful it's a turnoff to me also, even though bow hunting is my passion.
This is why there is no moose archery hunt in Anchorage except on the Army base. The last time it was done in town was a disaster.
I started hunting with a bow over twenty-five years ago for several reasons ; none of them have anything to do with "hunting" in town or shooting "trophy" elk in someones' driveway...I've tried to promote "Traditional" archery to advance the sport and get others to experience the benefits of trad-archery.Somehow this culling of elk by trad -archers goes against everything I'm about...nothing mystical or magical or spiritual applies here (at least not for me).To me it would be a disservice to ALL true traditional archers...just sayin': with all due respect
I would hunt them in town, but not with PITA watching. Hunting is a violent bloody affair, always has been and always will. The PITA folks would go ape and its not something you would want June, Beaver and the crew watching out the living room window. Open lots and parks at dawn or dusk without the audience to take out the nuisence animals...and the one carrying around the fence
Pumatrax, I understand what your saying, however this is a "depredation hunt" it's not out in the wild or the high country, yet, it needs to be done.
You cant use a gun ( to close to town )so, why not use tradgear?
I'm not talking about shooting them in the front yard or on the street, how about on the outskirts of town.
As the bowdoc said:
The fact of the matter is....if the towns people whats to get rid of some of the elk they need to allow hunting on their land...nearly everyplace near that town is posted NO HUNTING and just outside town is also part of the Nat.Park boundary...The towns people are to blame for this one and in no way should our tax bucks help out those people getting rid of a problem they caused...If they would have had controlled hunts outside of town on all on their POSTED land they would not be having this problem they are having now..
I have been on a few depredation hunts and I have always used tradgear, let's not confuse this type of hunt with a back country hunt for wild elk.
It's not for everyone and no one is going to make you hunt them, however I will, I'll take an easy elk in the freezer, but again, it's not a real hunt, it's a depredation hunt.
NO confusion here..the original post was about shooting elk IN town. If it doesn't PROMOTE traditional archery ; I wouldn't do it period.In my opinion sticking an elk with an arrow in town AND taking the chance that something might go "wrong "(and it will)...is detrimental to our "sport".In this day and age "we" as trad-archers don't need any more bad PR. (be it from PETA or Joe six-pack).By the way ;if the "hunt" is conducted on the outskirts of town ,why not leave it up to rifle hunters with 300 Win mags ? ...respectfully ; just sayin'
Yes. It's a depredation hunt. But hunt them on the fringes, outside of town, not right in someone's back yard.
Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow
Trust me on this one guy's you arrow one of them elk in sight of the town of Packerwood you will make the evening news for sure....it's gotta be done with do respect to all the people and more so the elk.As mentioned above hunting is a blood sport and sugar cote it anyway you what it can still get real ugly sometimes and if you been bowhunting very long you know what I'am talking about.I say trap the towns people and see how they like it...lets see how some 80 year couple will handle being chased into a net by 3 hilo's and cowboy's on horse back.....hell let's move the town and save the elk.....the elk will pay the price with thier life at some point...so what do ya'all say..lets run the people out of town with torches like an old frankinstien movie....bowdoc
In Estes Park Colorado ; I made the suggestion that the yuppie town FOLK get in their BMW's and Subaroooos and stick their heads out the window while singing "Killer" (by Michael Jackson) to effectively "drive" the elk out of town....and if they return threaten em' with a law suit...anyway ;I rest my case
IF YOU LOVE SOMETHING SET IT FREE............IF IT DOESN'T COME BACK, HUNT IT DOWN AND KILL IT
the net stealer is mine :D :D :bigsmyl:
the answer may be dogs turned loose on em when they show up...they do that with some kinda bear dog on bears...bet it would work after a while :rolleyes:
animals learn quick. If there is a threat, they leave, no threat ,they stay. Have a town meeting inviting everyone opposed to hunting them, and all the radio and tv stations. at the same time shoot them all, butcher them, and feed them all to the hungry. No one keeps the animals for themselves. Done. Humanitarian cause. Now let them complain about helping the poor.
IMHO
Town Elk is great with mashed Potatoes... Where do I get a permit?
Nope, wouldn't shoot'em. A few years back we had a moose running around a small town. The Environmental Police shot it because it was a real safety hazard with people thinking it was their pet or something. Bowdoc is right, front page news and the evening news, you'd think they killed bullwinkle. Now problem animals are "tranquilized". IMHO there's so much juice in those darts to drop them fast enough no way do they survive, but the public is happy thinking they live happily ever after.