Im not trying to bash anything here but as a traditional bowhunter and hunting with traditional archery is always a close encounter scent control is a big issue.
Ive always told people the best scent control clothing is to stay downwind. Is there anything to scent lok or are they just good marketers?
I personally don't think its a gimmick, but I still play the wind.
Hunt the wind, be clean and save your money... I used the old "classic" green SK for years and didn't have any deer that I knew of wind me,,, but I started clean and always hunted the wind.
JDS III
Short answer is yes!!!!
Yes.
Tha carbon needs over 800 degrees to "reactivate"...that takes one heck of a dryer :saywhat:
With that said, I admit to having a liner when they were first out and I did not do as much research...
i'm sure it helps......but really...."forget the wind, just hunt" is pure BS. Tried it and for me its a waste of money. Just my 2 cents worth, 8^)! ron
It does if you're a pro-staffer..
I don't care what you wear if that buck gets down wind he will smell you... On the other hand Tiffany is HOT.
the best gimmick out there and i wish i would have bought stock in it years ago!
Ive tried it and can see no noticable results. The stuff is very HOT to wear and ya sweat your butt off-thus adding more scent. Save your money! i play the wind and if i feel like it i spray down with some sort of cover scent. ya will NEVER get all the human scent gone.
Like we all know the wind is the main thing, I think the best thing I do is keep my huntin camo away from strange oders that is not in the brush. I think my best cover scent is wood smoke from my wood stove because they smell my stove all day and nite. Just last nite I had 6 does come in down wind and messed around in the corn for 10 min. and then walked less than 8 yds. from stand. never busted me. thats my 2 scents - Rod
I don't know for sure if it really works or not. I have one set of coveralls that I've only used a few times. But if someone wants to give me some new stuff I'll give it a try!!!
I have never tried any of it, I just watch the wind, now with that said i think that if it makes you a more confident hunter it migtht be worth it. For example I like wood arrows i would love to shoot wood arrows but they are not stright enough or consistant enough in spine, now i am by no means good enough so that the differance between aluminum and wood would make any differance in my shooting but in my tiny little anal mind it makes a differance. I am more confident shooting aluminum there for i do shoot better, even though i know its all in my head, it works.
The same could be said for sent lock, if it makes you a more confident hunter you will probably be more successful. Just my 2cents
Gimmick? Yes, based on the re-activation thing and the ad saying forget the wind. But I do think the main thing that turns people off about it, could very well be the one thing that actually helps to some degree. It's the fact that the garment does NOT breath well. In other words, it contains much of your scent because it doesn't breath well. You just have to know how to use it (like putting it on AFTER you arrive at your hunting location). Obviously, it's worthless for most southern hunters. For us northerners, it's a very good windbreaking garment when utilized with layering. There is no substitute for playing the wind and staying as clean as possible.
I would rather stay clean and keep as much of my scent contained as possible, than use "cover scent" to mask human scent. A deer's olfactory senses are so acute they can pick apart 3 different scents... the fox pee, the racoon scent, and YOU... all at the same time. I would bet they can determine if a Doe passed on a trail 5 minutes ago or 2 hours ago.
I have noticed that on the farm, deer are accustomed to smelling humans at a distance and if the scent is faint they appear to act like no big deal, no danger. Sometimes and unfortunately for them, I was a mere 20 yards away when they thought I was 200 yards away. Scrubbing like a surgeon before going out and containing your scent as much as possible... works!
Ever had those heavy coveralls on when it was cold and when you unzipped the torso you could feel the heat escape into your face? Well, it's not only heat escaping, but human scent as well. Something to think about....
I think it helps make your new scent smell like old scent. I know it doesn't work completely because I was wearing layers of it one time then cut one that cleared out the van! :bigsmyl:
Curveman, If you would have said it worked great for containing that, I would have bought a case of the underwear for my hunting buddies before we go to deer camp............
Here is a running report of the carbon suit scam maintained by T.R. Michels:
http://www.trmichels.com/ActivatedCarbonScience.htm
Here is another article on the carbon suit scam with the test conducted by JA Shivik, Ph.D with search and rescue dogs.
http://www.outdoorscentral.com/artman/publish/article_169.shtml
Here are Lessons from the U.S. Army CANE Exercises:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/war_next_time/schneider2.pdf
Here is a good overall article on the subject by a biologist with a Science degree who has worked in the environmental protection field for more than ten years:
http://www.fastestbows.com/articles/corrigan/scent_suits.htm
Here is a follow up article on the subject:
http://www.fastestbows.com/articles/corrigan/scent_suits_deuce.htm
This is the Virginia Tech paper on partial desorbed activated carbon between temperatures ranging from 100–649°C which is above 212degrees F:
http://www.ce.vt.edu/program_areas/environmental/teach/wtprimer/carbon/sketcarb.html
You can also read the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers – Engineering and Design, Adsorption Design Guide, Design Guide Manual No. DG1110-1-2, which shows that the only method to fully re-activate saturated activated-carbon, you must heat it to approximately 800 °C or 1,472 °F, in a controlled atmosphere of low oxygen concentration to reduce the possibility of combustion.
Here is a little article that touches on the manufacturing of your commercial carbon suit compared to the military unit:
http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/NULLO_-_Making_Good_Scents_105/4_Old_1_New_Scent_Control_Strategies.shtml
The facts go on and on. Bottom line, on this planet, using materials from this planet, and using the laws of science from this planet; it is impossible for your commercial carbon suit to work for you while hunting as you claim. Your carbon suit is fully saturated at time of manufacture, there is no method known to man for your saturated carbon suit to be desorbed, and the only methods known for your saturated carbon suit to be partially desorbed is greater than any temperature reached by any household dryer manufactured. Even if you had access to technical heating equipment to safely bring the temps of your saturated carbon suit above 212degrees F, it is a losing battle as you will have a continual loss in the ability for your suit to be partially desorbed. The highest grade sealed military unit is worthless beyond 1 use, 45 days of being unsealed, or 6 washings. Your commercial suit is worthless the moment it is manufactured.
Ok, that being said, does it reduce the amount of human scent so that the deer smell you but think you are 200 yds or more away when you are actually 20?
Mike
I bought a suit about 10 years ago. I wore it once. I did have a 115" buck come to the base of my tree and start licking the steps. Had he not been directly beneath my stand, I may have shot him.
I took the suit off, sold it, and have been working to stay out of sight and downwind ever since.
Have we all tried the gimmicks?!
Nuff said.
jf
I really believe it flies in the face of common sence to think the stuff can work. You expell untold human odor with each breath you exhale. I did not read the attached reports posted above but maybe that fact is in there some place. Unless you dress up like one of those old time deep sea divers with the big brass bubble helmet on and have SCUBA gear to breath.....you simply can NOT get away from watching the wind. Dang....I forgot about the camo breath gum.
Being clean....and a little smoke if hunting in an area where smoke is commonly present I have found to be the way to go. But, you can smell like the s*#% house door on a tuna boat and if the wind is right a deer simply will not smell you.
U.S. Marshalls did a test with scent absorbing products. Not sure if it was Scent-loc brand or not. The tracking dogs had no problem following the scent. That says to me its not fool proof.
However, I think LESS scent gets out through any type of "cover-all" as long as your trying to be scent free to begin with.
The most scent is produced by your breath, so watch for strongly odored food products, any type of alcohol absorbed into the blood stream is evaporated from your system by the lungs, only the excess is urinated and sweat out. If you smell that bad, you are drinking to much!
Anything you can do to give yourself an advantage with odor, along with playing the wind as your primary concern, can only increase your odds.
When ya consider that the critters are smelling in parts per billion, and every breath you take fills the air with human odor...its amazing that junk like this ever got off the drawing board.....
I would imagine there is some one some where right now living large and shaking their head in bewilderment but thankfull none the less at the gullibility of the massess. And then there is rap music...nuf said....
I use it, I like it, don't care what the hillbillys and their bloodhounds say. I think it MINIMIZES human scent to a level that deer find less dangerous, kinda where wingnut was going. The stuff i wear is comfortable and layers well. I only wear the inner layer Scentlok.
Peace and Good Hunting!
Chlorophyll it is proven to reduce the odor us humans emit. I started my doses today. The doc said take them a week before season starts and continue thru the season. It must work as they give it to patiens with colostomy bags. Shawn
When I tried it Shawn I was crapping pea soup, can't remember if it smelled or not!
I have a friend who is wealthy and buys every gimmick that comes down the pike. I watched him carry his scent loc gear in a bag stapped to his climber, put it on at the tree and proceed to sweat down here in S.E. AL. He looked like he was trodding across country and needed provisions when he was going to stand. He fell asleep on stand and ran off some does cause he has sleep "apnea"? I got a kick out of him. He also shoots a high dollar Mathews. Stay clean n hunt the wind.
Most of these discussions focus on the question: "Does it work?" I think the real question is : "Should we use it even if it does?" We are traditional bowhunters... our decision to turn our backs on technology can't end just because we're carrying longbows and recurves in the woods. We have to look a little bit farther. If something like this allowed me to kill an animal I would not have killed otherwise, that means I made a mistake as a hunter and didn't deserve to kill it in the first place. I am NOT slamming the choices anyone else makes... just explaining why I've decided to hunt the way I do. Cheers, Don
I agree with you Don, but where do we draw the line? I think that traditional is the bow we hunt with and not the method we use. If it was method, well camo, treestands, binos, eyeglasses, etc are modern technology that aid in taking an animal that you would not have killed otherwise.
I for one don't care what I guy wears or even hunts with, if they hunt with a trad mind then they are cool with me.
Mike
In answer to your original question "Is Scent-Loc a gimmick?"...YES.
Well I use it. As to whether or not it contains scent I couldn't tell you. I didn't buy it for that reason. I stay clean and keep the wind in my face. I bought it because the clothing itself is functional for the stand hunting I do.I have the full season fleece. It's quiet, I like the cut as it allows me free range of motion. It cuts the wind and sheds light rain and snow. The liner suit layers nicely with the outerwear.I bought mine on clearance and the price was right. The gloves, face mask, and stocking cap are functional and of good quality. I freeze to death wearing cotton and wool gives me the heeby jeebies itchy wise. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the clothing itself is of good quality with features that have the bowhunter in mind. The scent control aspect, well if it's there great, but I sure don't rely on it.
i don't believe it works for a second. surprising how many people actually use it though. sell anything if you market it well enough i guess.
QuoteIs Scent Lok a gimmick??[\\quote]
Yes.
Our local news station about a year and a half ago, did a test with Police dogs, and "hidden scent lock clad humans"..
The dogs found em every time... It was a story on the effectiveness of the Scent Lock type technology..
My vote: Gimmick.... and an expensive one to boot.
I agree with Don, we just keep looking for more things to shortcut the adventure. It's like asking someone else what ethical is...if you don't know, there is already an issue because it's personal.
In the years we have been hunting deer, they have solely relied on their wits, which apparently are much better than ours as a whole. Hunt them using your wits and the wind....not some factory made solution to make us "better."
I've seen more than a few people get busted when the wind shifted, while wearing it. nuff said. I believe they tell us to forget the wind and just hunt. yeah right.
Where to draw the line? That question is as old as the hills, and my answer is always the same: draw it wherever you want to. My line just doesn't include high tech clothing designed to eliminate a game's animal's keenest defensive sense through something that comes in a box. Others are perfectly welcome to see it differently. As for the original question, I would recall the words of PT Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute." Don
Yes.
Hmm...Does Scent-Lok work?...Well it does if your Lee Lakosky...
But, out here in Montana (AKA, Elk) country... we're smart enough to know that the saying "Forget the wind...just hunt"...Was definitely not coined by an elk hunter!
New motto..."Forget the scent-lok...just hunt the WIND"
Just my .02 cents
Peter Iacavazzi
Gimmick? Yes.
I agree wholeheartedly with what Mr. Thomas and Mr. Stout had to say.
I need my clothes to breath if they don't won't they die?
Hunt with the wind in your face and smoke a pipe with Captain Black. Thats what our grandfathers did.
Gimmick!!
Whether it works or not, I use it. My wife got me a great set, and I will use it until I need new hunting clothes. I know it is all that Ron Goodrum stated.
I still hunt the wind. I pay attention to the morning and evening wind changes. Every little bit helps, IMHO.
Im kinda surprised by the "it isn't traditional" aspect of the responses I have read. Clothing is clothing. Arrows are arrows. Broadheads are broadheads. If you are shooting a self bow, knap your own heads, make your own shafts and weave your own clothes....maybe then you can decide what is or is not traditional. Otherwise, we are all traditional for shooting stick bows and having fun. :saywhat:
I'm "old school", and dont fall for none of that stuff. I hunt into the wind,Dont own a GPS,Tree stand, any kind of urine. Argue with the ex wife every hunting season, She wants to wash my hunting clothes and I tell her not until I score...PR
QuoteOriginally posted by ishiwannabe:
Im kinda surprised by the "it isn't traditional" aspect of the responses I have read.
The traditional voraciousness for simplicity rears it's head on this subject more than any other. :rolleyes:
here is my philosophy. If it absorbs scents away from your body what keeps it from absorbing scents from your house when you take it from the dryer and what keeps it from filling up with scent while its inside the bag you keep it in. What keeps it from absorbing scent and storing it from the spot you get dressed? Just curious
Well... I guess I will throw my opinion in the ring.
Does the Scent Lock and similar products work as advertised? Most likely not, what does? Does it aid in preventing scent detection by game animals, probably so.
Now, I don't own any of the stuff, but not because I don't think it works. I don't own any because of the cost. I simply can not afford it.
Here is my reasoning and evidence for my opinion:
Here at home in Oklahoma our early season is fairly warm. Our middle seasons are much cooler and our late season can be down right frigid. Over the years, I have been winded more frequently in the warmer months than I have in the colder months. During the early season, even though controlling scent is more problematic due to overheating, there is less wind to carry scent, more foliage to block and stop scent movement and quite a few more natural scents present in the woods to mask my own. During these times I tend to wear lighter (in weight), looser and more open weave fabrics of few layers. In the late season scent carries farther on strong winds, there is less foliage to block scent and the air is clean and cold and my scent stands out more. When trying to stay warm is a factor, I wear multiple layers that are heavier. Under-layers tend to be closer fitting.
So what accounts for the disparity in how often I get busted when compared to the ambient conditions? I mean... with more things in my favor shouldn't I get winded less in the warmer months? I believe it is layers of clothing. When I wear my polypro and wool there are more layers that my human scent must penetrate in order to reach a game animal's nose. My tighter fitting undergarments may help hold my scent in. Throw a semi-permeable vapor barrier like a Gore-tex rain suit in and that may even double the effectiveness.
So... in order to wrap this up, use the stuff if you can afford it. It will work as well as some other layers and maybe better than most. I have looked at it often and it seems to be fairly well made hunting clothing that should last at least as long as any other higher quality garment. It will not make you a better hunter, but would help in marginal situations. Myself, I will most likely spend my money elsewhere because I need stuff that works for hunting other types of game, and as I mentioned the cost is prohibitive for me.
As to being traditional or not... my thought is; traditional is as traditional does. I have good friends who hunt with compounds that I think are more traditional than some stickbow shooters I have met. Shooting a longbow or recurve does not make you a better hunter or a more ethical person. Traditional is more about a set of mind and a set of skills. Not about a set of equipment.
Ya'll have fun and hunt safe this year!
OkKeith
Is it a gimmick for suckers? No more then the magazines and books we buy? Guess it depends on whose making the money and how its being spent.If it was stamped with Bear or Pope maybe we could accept it. Like the CNC designed bows, the Carbon and ceramic fibers in our bows and some arrows. I have the TRADITIONAL Scentlok, the original. All that new stuff is "Modern" and unacceptable.
Don't know if it works or not. Can't afford the stuff. I do know that they sell a lot of it as one of the owners lives two blocks away from me on 20 acres on Lake Michgian.
I also know I shot a nice 8pt opening morning wearing a 25 year old cammo coat and some BDU's from my marines days which was 40 years ago.
Hunt the wind and you will be OK. Save your money so the grandkids can spend it!!!!
Nah, I did the fart test first thing and my pants failed. They may work as a windbreaker though which would help keep your scent in.
I think a good wind breaker top and bottom that seals the wrists, neck, ankles and waist is as good or better. Also, wipe face, hair, hands, neck every few hours with scent elim. spray on rag or something. Always shower before hunting and store clothes correctly etc., etc. I'm talking about sitting for deer etc. For Elk I just try and hunt the wind as I stink no matter what after 10 minutes of steep climbing, not to mention camping for several days.
I think it works to some extent. I do think it probably smells like something.
The bloodhound thing doesn't prove to me that it doesn't work, here's why.
Bloodhounds track things. Even the faintest scent, if it trips their trigger they're on it. Whitetails, on the other hand, have to co-exist with humans. They smell us all the time. Heck, here where I live they can't possibly get more than a half mile away from a human. They have to decide (for lack of better words), when we are threats to them everyday. So all the stuff has to do to "work" is trick the critter into thinking you are farther away than you really are. But that bloodhound, if he can smell you, here he comes.
Is it traditional? Probably not. Neither are my woodsman broadheads, my store bought fletching, my carbon arrows with push in knocks, all the high tech glues and epoxy that holds it all together, my dawg ware quiver, my camo, my rubber boots, what about my head cover, my hang on treestand, is my laminated custom longbow traditional, the Indians didn't have them.
What if I smeared mud all over me from head to toe and found that it worked. Would this be traditional? Heck, I bet some Indian some where tried it. I wonder if he felt bad about tricking his quarrys keenest defense.
I love to shoot my longbow.
I love to hunt big bucks.
I'm content with where I've drawn my lines.
I prefer to be called a traditional "sucker".
Nicel put IJ!
IJ said it very well and I also would like to mention odor eaters, is there a lawsuit against that company as well. They have been using activated carbon to eat odor for years. i know i use them in my hunting boots and I change them out every two weeks or so, they definitely make a difference that I can even smell. Shawn
some of my scent lock wearin' huntin' buddies chew copenhagen or skoal and then spit everywhere they go I can smell em a mile away....doesn't make sense to me !!!
Shawn.....old newspaper will absorb odor out of shoes as well as anything on the market. It's also a whole lot cheaper than Odor Eaters 8^).
My hunting clothes hang in the cellar or in the garage beside my truck. I mostly carry a pocket full of allspice or may rub some garlic on my bare skin as well. The deer is an animal that relies solely on instinct. It's a measure of our own ability to seek him on his own level without extraneous accouterments. Makes you wonder who the dumb animal really is.
The Indians (Native Americans for the politically correct) used animal dung as a cover scent. They were also patient and paid attention to the wind. If I have a chance to step it a pile of cow manure on the way to the stand, I do it. I'm not quite prepared to rub it on my body though.
Add me to those who think it's a gimmick. As IJ stated, where I hunt the deer are pretty accustomed to human scent. Movement is much more critical here than scent. I have had deer wind me, look around, and continue about their business because I stayed still and they couldn't find me. Scent is certainly part of the deer's line of defense, but in populated areas like Iowa, they usually try to confirm what their nose tells them before bolting.
I don't own any scent loc nor do I intend to. I try to carry as many layers as possible to the stand with me, wait until I cool down (I'm a free sweater), then put on the outer layers to stay warm. I'm not overly picky about camo (plaid works too), scent control, and so forth. I try to be comfortable, which keeps movement to a minimum, and pick a stand with cover behind me.
I also think hunting from a tree stand tends to minimize scent or at least disperse it.
IJ--Mud doesn't come in a box. Don
http://www.deadseaonlinestore.com/puredeadseamud.aspx
Huh, mud for sale in a box. :biglaugh:
And...if some "famous" bowhunter on the outdoor channel endorsed that Dead Sea mud as a scent elimnator, a lot of bowhunters would get out the checkbook without giving it a thought. Surely there's a shorcut that will work. :knothead:
I figured out a long time ago that some folks just have to buy everything that is available. Any of you old timers remember when Dept stores were selling "Pet Rocks" and some people actually bought them. I think Bottled water is right there with pet rocks...PR
Don--see that big list of stuff that I take to the woods when I hunt, in my previous post, (probably the same stuff many here take with them). ALL of it came in a box.
BTW...this stuff is not a slam dunk. Its not like magic. Good grief!
After watching many of the TV hunting shows it occured to me that even though guys like the Drury Bros. who have all the bells and whistles when it comes to scent control still do not hunt stands where the wind is not right. That tell me a lot about the stuff. However, I do have some of the clothing. I got it through Sierra Trading post and it is very well made clothing and STP prices are pretty good if they have your sizes. Up here in NE the slightly heavier weight of the clothing is like wearing a sweater and that helps on cool days. Another benefit to the scent lok stuff is that it makes a very quiet wind breaker. As for scent control, it seems to work the first few times I've used it but it looses its effectiveness quickly. I like washing my clothes in scent free detergent, shower with a commercial scent free soap and take my chlorophyll. Drying clothing in the fresh air seems to work better than the drier as well. My wife and I also wash our towels along with our hunting clothes...why take a scent free shower and then dry off with a towel that smells of laundry detergent....even the odorless stuff.
Scentlock claims are way overblown! Wind is everything.
yes, it is a gimmick, and they market it well, but common sense needs to prevail.......
Why go to all the trouble and effort to bend over and pick up a handful of mud to smear on your clothes when you can purchase nice clean "dirt scent" from H.S. at your local sporting good store?
Yep. Walleye fishermen and bowhunters, ya can selle'm about anything. :saywhat:
I personally would rather hunt w/ it and no shower upwind of all the deer than down wind without it and a shower. I hunted big deer really hard for 5 years w/o one and alerted about 30% of the deer I encountered . The 6th sense some guys talk about is switching wind and nothing more.
Ive wore a scent suit now for over 10 years and have spooked literally about a handful of deer since. Here in the midwest if we waited for a consistant wind to hunt we could probably start around Thanksgiving.
Deer have a pretty good nose, but you cant convince me its near as good as a dogs and certainly not as good as a pigs.
Coyotes have the best nose in the woods and I have fooled plenty of them that were upwind in bow range as well.