...if 4" feathers will do? Almost all trad. archers I see have 5" feathers on their shafts. Why not use 4" feathers? Just curious....
Want to stabilize and arrow quickly. I usually use 5 1/2" feathers.
Never was much concerned about arrow speed unless it dropped below 140 feet per second. JMHO
Deer just don't care how fast an arrow misses them.
Gene
Gene, you got a way with a phrase!
I use 4.5" feathers, I just like them like that. I am tired of thinking too much. Life is short, and I am gonna just do 'em how I like 'em.
Killdeer :p ~run and tell that!
I was just thinking about this because I can see my arrows (w/4") are not spinning until about ten or more yards out. If I take a shot at a deer closer than that my arrow may not be flying as true as I'd like. I would hate to hit an animal with a sideways flying arrow...
So, tonight I am going to fletch a couple 5" with more or less helix and try them out. Logic tells me 5" with more twist will stabilize sooner but slow down quicker and have more drop down range. At this time I'm thinking the 5's will work better in my effective range. What I'm curious about is how much (if any) more noise will they make.
5" high profile shield definately make more noise..
Why use 4" feathers which are SLOWER than 5" feathers until the extra drag takes effect at around 45 yards. Also penetration is better at close range as the bigger feathers straighten the shaft out quicker. Unless you are taking shots longer than 50 yards there is no advantage to the smaller fletching.
I use 5 1/2" just because I like the way they look.I don't care how it affects speed.
I've always gotten great results with 4" 4 fletch. Either 75x105 or 90 degree. They sraighten up really quick. I use RW helical with plenty of twist. I don't think you can set a standard for this. Someone with a better release than me can get by with less feather, just as every shaft stiffness will not fit all. Use what works! CKruse
Killy, I take that compliment with great humility...coming from someone who I consider the "Queen of Quip."
:wavey:
Gene
Yep, Fletching are only there to correct our mistakes and to have a little extra if they get matted down in a rain storm. 5" is just the accepted "norm". 4" work fine, 3" work fine with the narrow heads like WW's...The drag more fletching causes takes effect as soon as the arrow leaves the string however and is more significant then folks think. Running the ballistics between 4" and 5" shows only 1" difference at 20 yards on a 170fps 500 grain arrow but shows 3.5% less horsepower at 20 yds. That's the same as short drawing your bow 1".......O.L.
Mr Adcock,
Are you saying that 5" fletch is 3.5% "weaker" on impact than a 4" fletch?
If so then I want to make some changes. I have some 4" parabolics I thought about trying but haven't gotten around to it yet. All of my hunting arrows are already fletched with 5" shield feathers.
My season opener is on Sep 20th, and I want all the advantage I can get!
Thank you sir.
John
I use 4" feathers for hunting.The are plenty for even my treesharks.Flag less in a bowquiver and hold up better when stuffed up a tube quiver.On some bows it is easier to get good riser clearance with less feather.Light skinny carbons just do not work as well with a lot of drag on the back.I do use half a turkey on wood and bamboo arrows however because they need all the help they can get. :)jmo
I usually don't have to worry about much "stabilizing" because I tune my arrows/bow until it'll shoot bareshafts out to at least 25 yards into the same place as my fletched arrows.
Killy, 4.5"? I don't think I've seen any - you must be burnin' em, yes?
:wavey:
5.5 inch high back shields on my longbow shafts, 5 inch shields on the recurve shafts.
And 6.5 long fletches on the horsebow arrows....but these are only .250" high.
Went through the same thing recently and kind of still up in the air on the subject . Right now Im getting great flight from three 4in .parabolic so Im planning on hunting with this set up .
Mike
I like standard profile 4 inchers because
less noise
I shoot a 3 to 1 broadhead that doesnt wind plane
My arrows are tuned and dont require 'steerage' from the rear.
I don't get what you people are talking about with noise. Im 20, and I'm fairly sure my hearing is better than most of you guys, and I dont notice much of a diffrence between bare shafts and fletched ones. Much less 1" smaller feathers. All I ever hear is the bow and the thunk of hitting the target, and my bow is pretty quiet from what I've heard. Sure, ther is a diffrence, but barely noticable. I have small diameter carbons with 5" 4 fletch. Most people say its too much, but I get waay more than enough power at even 40 yards (wish I could shoot good enough at that distance though). They accually fly and penetrate the target further than my gold tips that are 2 inches shorter, and have 4" parabolics.
Also, my arrows stabalise almost immedieatly, not more than 10 feet from the bow. If your not a professional bowyer and can't make a perfect arrow that didnt need feathers, then why not put a little extra fletch on there. Id rather have too much all of the time than too little just once.
Elictric blues, if you have a shed or something you can stand in, or a corner of a building you can stand behind that will put you down range near your target but at the same time keep you perfectly out of harms way. I think you will be shocked at the amount of noise your going to hear as your arrow SCREAMS by on the way to the target. If you have ever been to an air show or a nascar race you have heard the same effect just on a louder scale. Never the less, give it a try with a buddy, and you will hear what all the fuss is about. BE CAREFUL FOLLOWING MY NOT SO GOOD IDEA!!!!!
I use 5.5" Nanners cause I think they look cool :saywhat: !!! I also dont plan on shooting over 15 yds, its real thick around here during bow season, and I dont stay in the same spot for long. Besides that I hunt refuges and its illegal to cut shooting lanes.
You should hear a feather vs plastic vane!!Wow what a difference. Still, Man I love those feathers!!!-Greg
Stabilization coming out of Archers Paradox.
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Trad Rag | com
Stick & String or Cap & Ball | Giveaways
Longbow: ACS-CX 58#@28. Arrow: GT5575 Traditional, 100gr. Brass insert, 125 gr. Magnus 2-blade: 530 gr. total.
I was just down shooting 4's & 5's. What I saw was the difference in speed and trajectory was not even perceptible. Nor was the noise from where I stood. The 1/10 inch difference in profile was not a factor in shelf clearance with my equipment and a 3.5% loss in kinetic energy is negligible. So for me, it seems 5" is the way to go even though they stabilize only slightly sooner.
Funny thing, sometimes when I go to my range there is a doe or 3 down there. If I'm not acting sneaky I can usually get a half dozen shots in before they wander off. From 30 feet away!
I've tried 2, 3, 4, and 5" feathers. I've found I got the best stabilization from four 4" shield cut feathers. I got the second best stabilization from four 3" parabolic feathers, and found I had the least noise with that setup until I put a broadhead on.
Once I did that, it was a wash. So as of now I've got a few of each ready to go.
5 inch shield cut helical. They stabilize faster, yes I too bare shaft tune but hunting conditions are never as perfect as target conditions, the imparted spin starts more quickly and they don't look like those damn plastic vanes! In heavy brush or small game arrows I'll sometimes use 5.5 inch shield cuts, they stabilize even faster and what do I care if they are slower at 20 yards when I can only see 10 and I'm shooting 5?
There were ACTUAL, very well designed scientific tests done on all on this and printed in Bowhunter magazines years ago. It wasn't done by somebody making calculations or what someone thought should be happening. They set up bowshooting machines, to eliminate that variation and shot lots of bows and lots of different arrow and feather combinations and what they found was that EVERYTIME, EVERYTIME the bigger or more feathers or helical, vs straight or angled got out to past 40 yards FASTER than the smaller less, feathers and that it was near to 50 yards where the smaller feathers, straight, angled actually passed the bigger or helical feathers.
Skinny shafts, 2 inch feathers, 3 fletch, forward pinstripe airfoil and a heavy front end out of a 52lb longbow makes for an extremely quiet, fast, and stable arrow flight.
i now shoot very low profile 4" feathers. i find that if i get my arrows tuned properly i don't need 5" or 5.5" feathers on the back of them. i find they stabilize as efficiently if i make a poor release, defiantly are quieter and a bit quicker than the high profile 5" feathers i used to use.
noise - have someone shoot at a target near you..you'll hear those big profile 5 1/2's coming a long way off..and they'll sound like a HUEY helicopter.
Rick,
I'm pretty sure I read that article myself.
One other thing I didnt mention as a reason to shoot smaller fletchings is I like them bright, but the big big feathers on my bowquiver sure make a big HIGH PROFILE in the woods blob of bright color moving around...especially when you raise your bow up, or move it as you walk.
I just like to reduce that as much aspossible.
Lastly, the wind. I hunted several years in a row for goats and mulies in Wyoming. I've never seen the wind like I saw out there. You'd shoot an arrow and danged if it wouldnt end up 8 feet off to one side, with the wind pushing it. I tried some lower profile fletching and it really helped vs the big feathers. Something else to consider in your choice.
we all like what we like....kind of like guys with over/under shotguns vs side by side, and we know why we like it..but if one thing was perfect everybody would use that...isnt it nice that we can all get to where we want to go using different methods of getting there????
Rick, You believe everything thing you read?..Lots of prim rose paths in print. I can see where they could "see" those results...With poorly tuned equipment....O.L.
I shoot great big broadheads. I like great big feathers to control them.I also think they look cool :goldtooth:
(http://www.buffsblackwidow.com/images/222.JPG)
O.L. I can't argue with you on this one. I do perfer my feathers 5 3/4 inch med/high profile. I get them that way because I burn them in. I also use crowns that are a min. of 11 inches long.
I am into traditional bows not just for the shooting, but for the way they look, same with the arrows. I have some old BEAR and BEN PEARSON arrows that have 11 1/4 inch crowns, and high profile six inch parabolic feathers, pretty typical of the time.
I hate to see seven inch crowns, and small feathers on traditional hunting arrows. The only thing more offensive to me is traditional arrows with mechanical heads, yuck! I am not saying that small feather won't work, and I understand that some people do it because they can get two feathers out of one full length feather. I guess it's just something related to my age. I am 53 pushing 54, been shooting since I was 10 or 11 in Michigan, Fred Bear country. It was the way it was done, and I just ain't ready to fix something that isn't broken.
Just like the way they look, and with my Widows, they do the job just fine.
Oh! by the way, with my burner I can trim them down to the point that they are very silent in flight.
Scott
"Killy, 4.5"? I don't think I've seen any - you must be burnin' em, yes?"
You betcher fur! The smoke detector gets turned of regularly, for the broiler, and for the feather burner. :D
Killdeer :archer: It's GOOD to be the woman! :D
5.75" 'nanners 'cause I stink, and need as much help as I can. Day by day it gets better though.....
Actually I don't BELIEVE anything I read, especially on the internet, but I worked in an R&D engineering facility and testing lab for years and I can tell when someone details their testing procedures whether they knew what they were doing or not and whether to believe their results or not. I am much more likely to believe numbers when they come from bows that are TUNED and from machines and accurate chronographs at 45 yards than when they come from assumptions and calculators. My bows and arrows are as well tuned as anyones and I can shoot them at 30 yards with no feathers perfectly well, but still sloppy releases happen and paradox is there even with the best tuned bow in the world.
I use 5" feathers because I find them a bit more forgiving in correcting arrow flight problems caused by minor form errors and my sloppy release. Never really noticed enough difference in trajectory at the distances I shoot to see much benefit of switching to smaller fletching.
Rick, I know what you and they were trying to say but if we're compareing resumes, much of my background is aviation with aerodynamics with lots of testing involved also. The red flag goes up when folks draw conclusions that go against what little I know...
Just because they were using a machine doesn't mean their tuning was as good as it should/could have been.
The old story about the school teacher dropping a worm into a glass of whiskey and the worm dies. She asks the class what they could conclude from that? Little boy stands up and says "drink enough whiskey and you won't get worms!"
Testing requires changing only 1 factor at a time to draw conclusions from.
I know for a fact the arrow with the least drag will be faster at any point in the trajectory. Does the arrow with 4" feathers have less drag then the identical one with 5" feathers?? You bet it does..The ONLY way they could have seen the results they did was if the arrows were coming out of the bow sideways...Poor tuning....Now the arrow with the best stability will have the least drag until they both stablize. That would be the one with 5" fletch. So they had 2 variables going on, fletching size and stability that clouded the conclusions.
We need fletching to correct for our mistakes and for when it gets bumped around in flight. The "faster" an arrow stabilizes, the less energy it'll bleed off in the process of corecting itself, carrying more down range. Many/most do that with fletching size, the bigger, the more stable. The other way to do it is with FOC. The farther forward the balance point is the more stable it'll be. 2 arrows with say 5" fletch, one 10% foc and the other 20%, the 20% will shoot flatter then the 10% if disturbed. An arrow with 4" or fletch can be just as stable or more so as another with 5" if it's FOC is further forward. So just because fletching is bigger doesn't mean it's more "stable". Again, 2 variables instead of 1 as good testing dictates
They should have concluded that with poor tuning 5" fletch will stabilize faster then 4" which I think we'd all agree with. But the 5" isn't going to be faster or flatter at any range without some disturbance in arrow flight to start with or enroute....O.L.
Dang O.L., now ya got me wanting to strip off my big'uns for the little'uns. After all I did switch to Fast Flight to gain a little speed, now ya got me really thinking!LOL.
I really appreciate all your tuning info. Finally got my bare shafts hitting with my fletched ones. So the journey continues..... :thumbsup: :campfire:
Naw...Don't do that unless you intend on shooting 40 yards! :) Next week I'll be trying to shoot a 40# bow about 800! :) ....O.L.
Yeah but can you hit anything that far out OL other than the ground? :biglaugh:
It will not matter if he hits it or not.Too far to see anyway. :bigsmyl:
Stand out there and see! :) ...Whether I miss or hit, you'd never see it coming! :) It's bad when I have to use GPS and zip codes to measure the distances....O.L.
lol
Just my ignorance, but has anyone seen or done testing that showed how much and in what manner deer react to the sound of fletching whistling in the wind compared to the thump of the release?
pdk25, There used to be some good video of deer ducking the shot but don't know where to find it. Compared to the bows noise, I doubt fletching noise is any significance. A walking deer, assuming it continues to walk, moves 8-14" at 20 yards before our arrows arrive. I can tie a string to a milk jug, stand off to the side, and no one can hit that jug just on my poor reflexes, compounds can't hit it at 25. So beyond about 15 yards, if they want to move we're going to miss or wound....O.L.
Mr. Adcock, I agree deer can move on the shot. I just wondered if anyone had done any testing to try to separate noise from the arrow and noise from the bow. I suspect that noise from the fletching isn't likely to have nearly the reaction from deer that bowstring noise does, but would like to know if any evidence is out there. I can't remember what video I saw it on, but I think Denny Sturgis Jr. was hunting in africa and shot some animals. I was amazed how much those animals moved during the shot. If my memory serves me correctly, the one animal had it's head and shoulders facing almost 180 degrees from their original position by the time the arrow got there. I know he was using a pretty heavy bow and it wasn't a long shot, but that animal sure was fast.
QuoteOriginally posted by O.L. Adcock:
Stand out there and see! :) ...Whether I miss or hit, you'd never see it coming! :) It's bad when I have to use GPS and zip codes to measure the distances....O.L.
Too funny but seems to what it is coming to. Especially so if we don't preseve our hunting grounds.
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Trad Rag | com
Stick & String or Cap & Ball | Giveaways
Longbow: ACS-CX 58#@28. Arrow: GT5575 Traditional, 100gr. Brass insert, 125 gr. Magnus 2-blade: 530 gr. total.
I like 5" shield feathers four-fletched...perhaps it's a crutch for less-than-perfect for tuning, but it's a setup that I've had much success with. Besides, I love the way they look, both in the quiver and with that twirling ball of color headed right toward the boiler room...
I recently shot a 3-D course with a compound-shooting brother who used those tiny mini-vanes. It was NO FUN whatsoever watching (or should I say trying to watch) his arrows fly. And friends, that is a big part of why I love archery: watching those arrows fly downrange. More than not, he'd shoot and then we'd both say, "Where'd you/I hit?" What's the fun in that? And it's downright rotten when it happens when hunting.
Give me a slow trad bow with lots of bright fletch and I'm a happy camper.
It is kind of funny, we call ourselves "Traditional Archers/Hunters", yet will go to the extents of wind tunnel testing to gain that fraction of an edge..... Dang we are an interesting case study. :knothead:
I use 4-4" feathers,3-5 1/2" feathers 3-5" feathers. Out of my longbows 4-4" seem to fly the best. My Hybrid Longbow likes 3 5 1/2" feathers for some strange reason.My Horne's Traditionalist doesn't really seem to care; shoots anything I knock out of it well.
Another questiong while we're on the subject of feathers: Are you likely to get better arrow clearance by using traditional parabolic-shaped fletching rather than high-profile shield?
Yep Bob, Back when what we are doing was state of the art and "modern", there was a lot of things we did based on common knowledge (or lack of it) and I have no doubt I have missed and or wounded lots of animals because of it. The good thing about our sport, we can make it as simple or as complex as we like, some enjoy playing with the details.....O.L.
Tom, I don't think "shape" has much to do with it. Height would of course. Many have these bows that are 3/16" or more cut past center...those require arrow spines much higher then they should be. Tuning them that close to center makes them less forgiving to our errors making bow contact more of a problem. We're better off to build the side plate out so we have 1 arrow diameter at the tip left of center (rt handed), then find and tune arrows for that....O.L.
Well, I just came in from the shop where I'd been experimenting a little with fletching. I've been shooting three 5" right wing shields for quiet a while but decided to try the 5,5" high back shields.
First I did a 2 fletch (that being my user name and all) to see how that would fly. Then I did a 4 fletch at 90 degrees with alternate feathers of 5" and 5.5 inch shields. Then I did a 4 fletch at 90 degrees with all 5.5 inch high back shields.
After shooting them about 10 shots each I saw the following:
The 2 fletch 5.5" was not nearly as accurate at 15 yards. It seemed to take longer to correct, slow to rotate,and it seem to drift.
The 5 and 5.5" combination 4 fletch and the all 5.5" 4 fletched arrows shot the same. They shot accurately but seemed slower - even at 15 yards. They were also louder then my normal 3 fletch 5" arrows.
Conclussion: Time to stop fooling around with 4 fletch 5.5" feathers. It's more fletching then is needed.
Now, how about 4 fletch 4" feathers? That'll be another day
2fletch, Yep, tried that 2 fletch once upon a time when I forgot my basic aerodynamics. 2 fletch opposing each other only stabilizes in 1 direction. An arrow can either pitch, yaw, or a combination of both and 2 feathers just won't cut it of any size. I guess if you wrapped them completely around they would be those are called fluflu's! :) .......O.L.
QuoteOriginally posted by O.L. Adcock:
Tom, I don't think "shape" has much to do with it. Height would of course. Many have these bows that are 3/16" or more cut past center...those require arrow spines much higher then they should be. Tuning them that close to center makes them less forgiving to our errors making bow contact more of a problem. We're better off to build the side plate out so we have 1 arrow diameter at the tip left of center (rt handed), then find and tune arrows for that....O.L.
Oh heck, O.L.....I think you're gonna have to 'splain the "why" about this issue....
If I read you correctly, you're saying that a bow not cut to center is more forgiving of errors? I'm lost....again...
Tom, there is a difference between "centershot" and "cut to center" but folks incorrectly interchange the two. Center cut is when you line up the string down the center of the limbs the sight window is even with the string. "Centershot is when you nock an arrow and line the string down the center it cuts the arrow in half down the middle. This is on topic cause depending on how much the arrow bends will determine if the fletching clears or not. The closer to centershot you get, the less the arrow will bend and the more likely you'll get fletching contact or the tail of the arrow contact with a less then perfect release. The best starting point for tuning is the arrow 1 diameter at the tip left of center when sighting the string down the middle...
Ever hear anyone say "the closer to centershot the wider spine range you can shoot"? That's true only from the standpoint that cut "past center" gives you more options to build out the side plate, which few people ever do. So they wind up shooting a 70# arrow from a 50# bow. That configuration isn't as forgiving to our errors as it would be adjusted to shoot a 50-55# out of the same bow nor would you have as much fletching clearance....O.L.
Maybe just tune the arrows correctly, and then use any fletch you want to.
Not everyone has enough money to go through 100 arrows a month testing and making new ones. I wanted the first batch to work so I didnt have to spend more. (im a college student) I'd rather go a litle slower than not hit the target. I barely notice the difference though, I fletched one of mine with 3 instead of 4. And there was a difference, but not enough to offset the bad arrow flight.
And I dont trust anyone I know to shoot an arrow at me. I'll have to let the deer decide if my arrow is too loud. I seem to think it wont be. The biggest thing I have found is new feathers versus old, half worn feathers.
QuoteOriginally posted by BobW:
It is kind of funny, we call ourselves "Traditional Archers/Hunters", yet will go to the extents of wind tunnel testing to gain that fraction of an edge..... Dang we are an interesting case study. :knothead:
I'm having tons o fun and I fletch to please me have yet to see any evidence that using 4 vs 5 inch or shape has any real world difference. Guys you don't honestly believe a few feet faster or the shape of your fletchings is going to make any difference to the critter on the business end of a arrow do you? Next you'll be debating the thermodynamic advantages of all one color fletching, after all variance in color means variance in temp and therefore micro warping of the shaft. :bigsmyl:
Hi Mr. Adcock,
I don't quite understand why a bow that is centershot would be less forgiving and more likely to contact the riser than otherwise. I have no doubt that you have researched the issue, and I don't want to tie up your time explaining something over and over. Is there any reference or simple explanation for this. I can understand if you are using arrows that are significantly too stiff, but I would think you would have this problem if not centershot as well.
pdk25...If you take any given 50# bow and set the side plate 1/4" from centershot, then tune arrows to it...They would be in the 50# spine range for example. Same bow, now remove the side plate material so the bow is centershot or close to it. It's now going to need much higher spine, say in the 60-65" range....Which arrow will bend/clear the riser better? If a bow is cut past center by adjusting the side plate thickness you can tune in a wide range of arrow spines. The closer to center, the higher the spine needed........O.L.
Electric blues, "Not everyone has enough money to go through 100 arrows a month testing and making new ones. I wanted the first batch to work so I didnt have to spend more."
I agree 100%, a person that knows how to tune only needs 1 set of matched arrow...The fletching has nothing to do with how well your bow is tuned, it can be used to cover up and hide tuning errors however....O.L.
Once again. O.L., you've done an excellent job of explaining things. Thanks.
OL is right if you takethe time to tune you bow with arrow point weight and then when you think you have it in the bag get a broadheads the right weight and they shoot the same place as field points it is a truly a good feeling how many of us have the ultimate arrow only to find it do not fly well with broadheads probably why so many of us own so many broadheads of diffrent weights But how sweet when it comes together and they fly right away so for me 5" feathers shield cut who cares if they are a little slower at 39yards but as O.L. states the flething will cover mistakes in Bow tune and poor releases :thumbsup:
Where can I buy 5.5" highback shield cut, barred feathers?
i like the shelf cut just to center or just before center. THis usuall means i can shoot arrows in the range of my draw weight.
I use 5 and 5.5s.
Never had a problem killing game, and I always have great arrow flight no matter the weather or my shooting position.
As a BOWHUNTER, every shot it not picture perfect.....so I account for that more so than anything else. And sure aint gonna use bordeline fletchings.
This argument of feather noise and weather or not it will spook game bears a striking resemblance to the wheeled bow's argument that faster arrows kill more deer. The absolute bottom line is a GOOD HUNTER kills more game and that's it!
The rustle of feathers isn't an unnatural sound in the woods I hunt. I don't think it matters that much and especially at close range...unless the deer is on point to begin with. Pat
Two major elements affecting the amount of fletching required are the level of arrow tuning and the degree of arrow FOC.
For over four and a half decades I used huge amounts of fletching - 6 1/2" three fletch or 5 or 5 1/2" four fletch. Today, using high amounts of EFOC (and now starting to experiment with Ultra-EFOC) and TINY amounts of fletching I get QUICKER paradox recovery and BETTER, MORE FORGIVING arrow flight (with broadheads of all types) than I EVER did with the massive amounts of fletching I was using previously.
I've only used the tiny-fletched hunting arrows (four by 2 1/2" A&A cut) on a limited number of animals so far (9), but my first impressions are that it does make a noticeable difference in animal-reaction to the sound of the shot. Though I'll not be able to do any more hunting for a while (until after I have my op and can recover) I have several friends, all experienced whitetail bowhunters, who are testing the A&A fletching on EFOC arrows for their whitetail setups this season. Testing will use both trad bows and compounds. It will be interesting to see if they note any animal reaction differences on the high strung whitetails.
Across what is now fifty years of big-game bowhunting I've taken a lot of game with arrows having large fletching, and until recently would have STEADFASTLY maintained that large amounts of fletching was the way to go; that its advantages in increased arrow stability out-weighted all other factors. Changing to EFOC allowed me to use the small fletching while maintaining the arrow flight qualities I feel a hunting arrow must have. After ACTUALLY USING the small fletching in some hunting I'm now becoming convinced that it does, indeed, offer some solid advantages in concealment, reduced animal reaction, downrange arrow terminal performance, and arrow flight - especially in windy conditions.
On many hunting shots it won't make any difference at all what your fletching is, but I'm fairly convinced that there are hunting situations and hunting shots in which the smaller fletching (on that properly tuned EFOC arrow) will likely make a marked difference in success/outcome. Until you have actually used them, or have actually seen them used on a properly tune EFOC hunting arrow, keep an open mind on small fletching on hunting arrows. They might surprise you as much as they did me!
Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow
Well... how can you argue with a guy who has "Dr." in front of his name. I guess its safe to say my comment is now invalid. :notworthy:
Well your kind of right. being a "good hunter" and shot is still paramount as Dr Ashbys record with long fetching will attest too.
"Bare Shaft" all you guys want.....
But you will NEVER get an arrow with small fletching to stabilize as fast and fly as straight as an arrow with large fletching.
I've seen hunters with EFOC and most of them would do better without it 8^). :knothead:
:bigsmyl: George shooting big feathers because you like to is a pretty good reason for doing it. :) Shooting them because someone thinks they are the only thing that works might not be the best reason.Trying things so you know first hand how and why things work is always the best. :D
James, you won't get too much of an argument from me; however, I have listened to Dr. E.F. Kenagy, Dr. Paul Klopsteg, Dr. Phil, Dr. Henry Shoenthal....even Dr. Seuss, and frankly I really don't care to hang around Doctors too much. They smell like rubbing alcohol. :help:
Dr. Seuss is ok. :biglaugh:
I shoot 5" shields because I have a drawer full of em.. I do like the 5.5" high backs though for looks.. But 5" seems to git er dun..
O.L. you always have my attention, and Dr. Ashby, I have learned much from you too! I shoot 5 3/4 inch feathers because they look good, are traditional.
Tuning my arrows has not been a problem for ten years, I have used the bare shaft method, and the Adcock method. I have used the extreme FOC long before I knew what you called it, because it worked.
Having shot competitively with compounds for several years, I have understood the advantages of using small fletching. When I went to the woods, it was always five inch feathers.
Most of my hunting consist of shots in the 15 to 25 yard range. I have taken game at 35 yards to 40 with my traditional gear. I have eliminated the noise problem, as much as possible by taking just a little off the height of my big feathers, with my burner.
I don't think my feathers are a handicap, and I regularly shoot my bare shafts at twenty to thirty yards grouping with the feathered shafts.
I agree, match your equipment, tune the son-of-a-gun to the point it is supposed to be, not just close enough. Shoot whatever length feather you want, but as stated above, do it for the right reason. There is no room for short cuts in bowhunting, modern or otherwise. I like big feathers, bright crowns of 11 1/2 inches, colorful crest, and heavy shafts 11 - 12 grains per pound, with a lot of FOC. It works, but may not be your way.
I learned this by listening, and making a bunch of mistakes along the way. Let my mistakes be a sign post, someething to be avoided.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
I use 5 and 5.5s.
Never had a problem killing game, and I always have great arrow flight no matter the weather or my shooting position.
As a BOWHUNTER, every shot it not picture perfect.....so I account for that more so than anything else. And sure aint gonna use bordeline fletchings.
That's pretty much my thought on it as well. With rare exceptions, I use 4 4" feathers set left helical. But in the instances when I 3-fletch arrows, I use 5" feather. I can't say I've ever had a problem shooting through game animals either.
On any well tuned hunting arrow, every net effect of using excessively large fletching - any amount ABOVE THAT REQUIRED TO GIVE STABILITY under ALL of YOUR personal shooting conditions - are detrimental. It creates additional drag on the arrow, reduces arrow speed, increases arrow trajectory and reduces arrow force. It increase the destabilizing effect when shooting in windy conditions, increasing the arrow's cross-wind drift, and increases the sound of the arrow in flight.
The plus factors to excess fletching are that you can get away with using arrows that are less than perfectly tuned to your bow and your arrows are easier to see in flight. For some, another plus may be the aesthetics.
More fletching area is REQUIRED on arrows of normal and high FOC if one is to achieve rapid recovery from paradox. However, even with massive fletching area, I've yet to see a normal or high FOC arrow that gives as fast a recovery from paradox as a well-tuned EFOC arrow is capable of, even when shot as a bare-shaft.
That said, virtually every choice we make in our hunting setups has both plus and minus factors; all of which we should be aware when making our choices. Using larger-than-required-for-stability fletching on your hunting arrows because you like to, or because you feel they look more traditional is a perfectly adequate reason to do so. There are also many negatives to the 70" straight end longbows I prefer to use; and some pluses - but I also have my aesthetic and emotional reasons for choosing them.
Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow
I love to tinker with arrows,and shoot woodies only. Hexpines to be exact. I shoot 4 4" RW helicals on mine, and get excellent arrow flight. A couple flks mentioned having a harder timseeing their arrows with smaller fletching.
One word fix- tracers!
I attach white tracer feathers to the aft end,with fletfh tape, and trime them to about the size of a quarter. You can see them plain as day, with now effect on arrow flight. I've used them of and on for years.
I may try shooting 3 4" just to experiment. I shoot big Zwickey Delta broadheads, so I don't want to go too small.
Lots of good ideas on this thread,makes me want to tinker a little bit.
Since some of us are admiting that we would like to try a feather outside the typical 5 inch length I would like to say that I've been wanting to try 4inch HIGH backed parabolic feathers but I can't find them for sale and I don't want to burn feathers so I'm stuck with the norm.
A question on the bare shaft tunning method. Should I be concerned how the nock flies or just weather or not they hit the same place as my fletched arrows. I can't find this answer in any of my reference books.
in short tune your arrows properly, give yourself enough fletch to get a happy medium between not being detrimental and minimizing the margin of error of wind, bad release, (you know, fog of war)
Dozer....just buy a 4" chopper and set it to cut higher on the back....they are adjustable a tad and you can make them a little more. Then just buy full length feathers.