Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Gary Logsdon on August 23, 2008, 11:42:00 AM
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I realize this is preaching to the choir here guys, but thought I'd let you know what I just posted over on the Bowsite and the ***********. It may get interesting . . . here's what I wrote:
"Archery is seeing how far you can get away from a target and still hit the bullseye; BOWHUNTING, is seeing how close you can get to an animal and not miss!"
IMHO, bowhunting should be a contest between the hunter and the animal he pursues, not a contest between the animal and the hunter's equipment. I guess that's why I frown upon 90% of the hyped up "Hunting" shows being broadcast and favor the few that make the animal and location the real stars rather than the featured hunter or their equipment. Food for thought.
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I like your thinking Gary....
The other nite at the Archery shop there was some program on and the guy was useing a rifle and he shot at a bedded Javie, way out there and missed and then he started shootin at them while they were on the Run....
Sometimes I wonder why they show stuff like that....
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I'm with you Gary although I know from experience that many others do not feel the same way. I understand that certain folks can regularly make bow shots at 40+ yds but I am not one of them. I am usually pretty deadly from 30yds in but what I really like is when I can shoot them at under 15yds. Last year I killed several deer under 15yds including one I shot at 3yds after a 2 hour stalk. That is what it is all about to me. I'm not saying everyone needs to feel the same way but I guarante once you are able to get that close and close the deal you will want to try to do it more and more often.
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Yep, I like to see their eyelashes and be so close that I think they can hear my heart beating. My comments are really about the mental approach of bowhunting versus shooting at paper or even 3D targets. I've been in camp with too many guys over the years (that shot a variety of equipment)who thought they were superior bowhunters because of their shooting "skills". They rarely backed it up in the field, in fact I had hunters with more conservative shooting mindsets consistedly out doing them on game animals. How do I know? Where are my stats"? I guided bear hunters for 14 years and had to evaluate each shot made and then decide how to track their animals . . . I have EXPERIENCE crawling through the tangles and muck folowing their bloodtrails.
By the way, I'm already getting trashed over on the ***********. HA!
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Gary, you are right on target! For me it's getting real close. That is most of the fun anyway. I've been stalking and still hunting deer for eight years with my tradbow and haven't put one down yet. My buddies kid me about not keeping score at 3D. I can't cause I'll never shoot from the stake. Gotta be in the brush or twisted around in a deadfall, whatever. Had plenty of "almosts" that keep me at it. Gotta Love This Stuff.
Sounds to me you darn know what you are talking about! That's respected in my book.
... mike ...
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Well... According to my wife, bowhunting is one of only two things I ever think about. :rolleyes:
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You like icecream too, Molson?
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Molson
My wife and two daughters think the same thing about me. At my older daughters soccer practice the other day, my younger daughter and myself walked by a tower used by the high school football coaches to get a better view of his players, as we walked by I said, "That would make a great deer stand", my daughter said, "Ugh, that is all you ever think about". I laughed really hard.
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Gary..I depends on what the meaning of IS is.
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It
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Gary, I like that thought process. Never thought about it much, just accepted that was what it is for me. The TV shows want you to get all caught up in the gear etc. because they are really infomercials, not hunting shows. I can't even think about shooting as far as some of those people do.
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Me TOO! Well said Bro.
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You got my vote! I relate it to fly fishing. There may be an easier way but what is that worth. We have come to make things harder trying to make them easier. Ever been in a store when the computer broke down? Ever went to Auto Zone and the part number didn't come up in the computer? Life would be better if we left it simpler. I'll do it the "hard way" which I feel is the easy way.
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I agree with you guys, that is why i got into Trad archery.have a great day.
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It's nice to get to blow off some steam over this sometimes.
The other day at an archery shop I saw a book titled, "Tuning Your Bowhunting Shooting System".
Me? I prefer bowhunting with a bow.
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Gary...You pretty much summed up my feelings about bowhunting. I was reading a magazine the other day and the author relating a story of how one of the outdoor tv show gurus had added 20 yards to his effective range by shaving over 100 grains off his arrow weight. He said "I never used to shoot beyond 40 yards. Now I'm comfortable out to 60." I can't figure out where these fools come from. I mean, if that's as close as you can get, use a gun!! That's what brought me back to traditional bowhunting...it sharpens your skills and instincts...I don't feel handicapped with a recurve or longbow in my hand...I just know I will have to use my ability to be able to get close.
David
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Why yes Gregg I do! I always get the Banana Split with whipped cream and....... :D
Ok... Back on topic. I believe Uncle Gene and Uncle Barry have a great discussion on this very subject in their excellent video, "Spirit of the Bow". Any of you who haven't seen this masterpiece or those who feel there's not much good coming from hunting videos should check it out.
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I just made a long bow for a friend of mine. When he asked me to make the bow, he said he would only shoot it to just mess around and use his compound to hunt with. Well guess what, we went out shooting hay bales in his uncles field the other day and he fell head over hills in love with tradtional archery. I bet by the end of deer season he will be hunting with his long bow. I have taken many, many deer with gun, but never had the satisfaction and pure joy that I did when I missed my first deer with tradition tackle, yes I did say miss. The buck was a very large 10 pointer that I had seen the day before. The first arrow hit a limb and the buck took 3 steps backward and the next arrow hit a limb. I never remember feeling that excited while deer hunting.
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i walked into one of the archery shops over here its about 20 miles from my place. any way i walk in the door and on the shelf is a book and it reads how to tune your compound. so i say to the shop owner do ya have any books on trad gear. and he said what the hell is that!!! i said you dont know what a longbow is ? he said aint those the funny things with a single string and a bent bit of wood? i quickly said those are real bows not things ya need to take atool box with ya to tune it every time ya miss the target. man ya should have seen his face it was somthing like this. (http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh305/jeffburg/hair-1.gif) with that i said thanks very much for the entertaiment and walk out. bowhunting is not having to carry a tool box in to the woods. :biglaugh:
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Man, it's a lot friendlier over here than on the Bowsite and ***********. Ha, I posted the same topic over there I'm beginning to get trashed . . .
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yeah I'm glad I found this place. i didn't join many hunting sites after reading alot of the things posted and how people react.
Not only is trad gang pretty easy going with good moderation. It's also not mod'd to the point that you get emails like "Hello, some people find the word Pygmy offensive so you should really..."
But I agree with your topic. Too many rube goldberg machines out there. So much technology to make a string launch a stick. They've put an awful lot of technology into a supposedly "primitive" weapon and it defeats the purpose of it being a bow. If you're going to use that much technology use a gun.
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Do you remember any event that was easy to overcome? You just don't enjoy it as much when it comes easy...I like challenges in life: marriage (to an Italian/Irish wife), children, honest work, fly fishing and trad bow hunting. You may grow gray hairs quicker but you learn patience and wisdom at a faster pace too. Just me and my $.018
Quinn
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i'm using a borrowed recurve at the moment till my newbie gets here. yesterday i was out pig hunting, i nocked an arrow for a stalk and saw that the flipper rest arm had broken off. i cursed and said to myself, i cant wait till i'm shooting off the shelf again. no mechanical letdowns! any way i shot off my knuckle and got the boar. compounds (arrow flinging machines), no thanks! the challenge of bowhunting is getting as close as you can, then two paces closer. there is way more skill envolved in doing this. bump a coumpound and instantly you have doubts about where the next shot will go. you could drop a trad bow ten times, pick it up and know it will shoot as well as you can. thats confidence building.
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Regarless of the subject; you will rarely change someone's mind through debate unless they are seeking the truth to begin with.
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You mean "what exactly is bowhunting to you"? Otherwise, it is hunting with a bow.
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Bowhunting is what happens when I stick a deer and lean my bow against a tree to follow the blood trail....
sux when you spend more time looking for your bow than you did lookin for the deer!!!
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I saw the post at Bowsite and also read the article posted that Judd Cooney wrote.Judd is totally correct w/ his thoughts on some traditional archers.I've been to enough shoots and shared camps w/ trad. archers IMO that need to dedicate more time w/ their equiptment.This crap of hiding ones inability to shoot their equiptment accurately behind the challenge to get closer needs to stop!
I know some compound shooters I have the utmost respect for because I know the time they put into their equiptment and yes they are very effecient w/ their bows at very long ranges.It makes no difference what one choices to hunt w/ but makes a big difference in how dedicated one is to shooting thier equiptment.2 cents
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Originally posted by Steve B.:
Regarless of the subject; you will rarely change someone's mind through debate unless they are seeking the truth to begin with.
I like that! If most of us would just stick to the facts without clouding issues up with emotions...it would be alot easier to see and accept the simple truth.
Fact is...Bowhunting is simply hunting with a bow...whether the bowhunter is taking 5yrds. shots or shots of 50yrds. or more.
A bow and arrow is generally accepted as a close range weapon when compared to a gun...so the equipment itself puts limitations on the hunter.
Some hunters are drawn to the bow and arrow because it forces them to get closer...while others like the longer seasons, time of year, the tradition...you name it...it can be a number of different things.
Fact is...what it means for one person doesn't necessarily mean the same for the next...but we should take time to acknowledge that...while accepting the fact...that bowhunting is basically just hunting with a bow and arrow.
Ray ;)
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This Quote's how I feel about bowhunting!
Found this on stickbow..
("Bowhunting is, or should be, a pure competition. Not between the man and the game he seeks, nor between the man and a fellow hunter, but between the man and himself. Between him and his personal limitations, both physical and mental." -- Doug Borland )
:thumbsup:
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tip of the hat Gary.
For thousands and thousands of years bowhunting was not only a way to get meat; but it was something that if you wanted to do: it had requirements.
My dictionary says the applicable part of 'conquer' is to be victorious; to win. It also says 'to overcome or surmount by physical, mental, or moral force.
I know that when I shoot I have to overcome physical; mental; and moral forces.
Perhaps that is why terms like 'sin' and 'evil' ( which are archery terms) felt at home in the bible.
Now with traditional equipment; I try to overcome the physical part of bowhunting; the mental part of bowhuting - and very much the moral part of bowhunting.
To some winning is everything; and with bowhunting- it is not overcoming the physical; mental and moral part of bowhunting; it is more: overcoming them... in the easiest way possible to reach their goal.
Anything that makes the taking of game with an arrow easier... is the thing you should seek.
I think we are all seeing where this leads us with compound or traditional bowhunting.
When I see a person shoot a deer bigger than any the average bowhunter will ever in their life shoot; and say " I shot this buck because it is a management buck" : is losing sight of what a simple treasure bowhunting can be.
I think there are those that seek to be closer to their inner good; and closer to that which is called 'God': in their hunting with any bow.
I do think though that the relationship with nature is closer- with bows that have a history: older than our average life span.
I do not seek to conquer bowhunting; I seek to have it conquer me; because that which keeps me from being a good bowhunter; and a good person: are one and the same.
Bowhunting is a relationship with nature- through the use of a simple tool; that is of itself: a thing that does not interfere with a person- being part of nature.
Traditional bowhunting is a part of mans relationship with nature for thousands of years.
The fact we honor Ishi - the last wild Indian- proves that relationship: is still alive and here...
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You guys go ahead and have at it:^) I've got to pack for a 3+ week DIY trip to Colorado and won't be back in here until Oct. 1. The post was intended to get guys talking about ethics as it relates to hunting with a bow, personal philosphy, etc. . . a little slight of hand . . . and guys here picked up on that right away(Can't say the same about the fellows on the Bowsite and ***********) . . . heck, I even smoked ol Tink Nathan out of the woods over there.
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Good Job, Gary and Good Luck...
David
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bowhunting is starting a conversation and then leaving on a hunting trip.... :p
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Good one Brian!! That's IT!!!