Circumstances:
1. Elk hunting with one other hunter.
2. Temperatures will range between 15 degrees in the morning to 40 degrees at mid-day.
3. I anticipate no rain but moderate probability of snow.
4. Not more than two miles from truck, which cannot reach hunting area.
5. Terrain is comparable with Missouri's Ozarks.
6. Physical condition of hunters is below average -- that is, late 50s to early 60s and moderately arthritic.
***
What goes into the [collective] packs for both hunters to field dress and reduce elk to move to truck?
Good sharp knives, knife sharpener, perhaps a small folding game saw, game bags, rope. You could add a bottle of water and some munchies for the energy you will need.
Don't look at it as work. It's the pay off to a successful hunt! ;)
Don't carry any bone out!! You can bone the animal and cool it before you pack it up. Keep your packs reasonable and make one extra trip. With our Bison Gear day packs we can convert to a back pack and carry one load out when we go for our BIG packs. That helps too.
Good luck!!
Mike
Yeah skip the saw and save yourself plenty of work & time.One handy item for elk hunting is a 6'X9' tarp.You can use that to roll the critter onto or tuck it under him or her while skinning.It really helps keep things clean.Now do not gut your critter.Start by skinning one half then roll the beast over and skin the other side.Now you got yourself a not gutted...but skinned out elk on a 6X9 blue tarp.You can remove the front shoulders by removing the bone and all,and then debone it.Then cut down the base of the neck to the rump and along the rib cage.This will give you your two back straps and front shoulders done and ready for packing.When you removed the back straps you have now exposed the hip socket.You can remove the bone at the socket and you will have the hind quarters off the elk and ready for de-boneing.I usely do not remove the hide legs at all,but leave them at the hip socket and cut around and down along the bone.Now you got all the meat off except for the neck meat and between the ribs plus the sir-tender-loin.The neck meat is worth cutting off and packing out,as for between the ribs thats your call.Not alot of meat there...but...and the tenders can be had be takeing a good sharp knife and cut thru 2-3 ribs at the back bone.Then slip you knife into the body cavitey and cut the tenders out........then the work starts.....bowdoc
Like wingnut said don't take any bone with you. I always pack a fishing fillet knife with me, it makes boning out the elk a lot quicker and more efficient. A couple of good meat sacks to put the loose meat into. Some rope so that if you do not get it all the first day you can tie the rest up in a tree to keep it away from predators/scavangers. I can usually get the whole animal out in 5 trips by my self. Big ones will need an extra if you are taking the whole head out. I would not recommend 5 or less for anyone not in pretty good shape and used to packing a heavy load. Make sure you stay very well hydrated and don't work it to hard. There is no elk out there worth a heart attack.
I haven't killed an elk - all of the following is from deer experience and my research for my first elk hunt.
The meat from an elk will weigh about 40% of the elk's live weight. Plan accordingly.
Based on field butchering deer and the terrain - the comments about not carrying bone off the mountain make a lot of sense.
Consider using a gutless approach to field butchering the elk - it should be less work and quicker. I know this is true for deer. Here is a link showing how: http://home.att.net/~sajackson/guttless1.html
I would also bone it out.I do that with deer actually and only do one side at a time useing the inside of the hide as my clean table.I don't gut them either starting on the belly side skin up beyond half way and work one side.After that side is finished flop the hide back over and flip it.Repeat the process on the 2nd side.
If need be a couple trips shooting the shi? with your bud maybe easier than an over loaded single trip
If you can get the truck reasonably close, two guys can drag half an elk on a big doubled poly tarp if the ground is grassy, bone and all. We did that with my last bull. Carried the head and hide in one trip, and dragged the two halves on the next two trips. We finished the boning and butchering in camp, with good light and tables to work on.
That tanned elk hide is my favorite trophy.
I like the advice from Bowdoc. That's pretty much what we did last year on Whip's bull. The front quarters come off pretty easily and one guy can manage them. The rear quarters are pretty heavy, and if you're on steep ground like we were, can be pretty dangerous for one guy to move. Didn't think about leaving them on and taking the meat right off. Good idea...
If it was downhill to the truck, and snow on the ground, there's no way you'd get me to put an elk on my back. I'd drag one every chance I got. With a friend in steep terrain, I've dragged out 6 or 7. If the terrain is flat enough to use a game cart, I'd bone as others have described and use a game cart. There's no EASY way, just some less painful.
As a guy whose had 3 back surgeries and whose knees aren't the greatest, I'd recommend trying to keep heavy loads off you back in mountainous country, where a slip can wreck you for life.
Of course, only IMHO.
Dean
Dean's post reminded me- once my guide and his "cowboy" helper rode a couple of spike bulls down the mountainside like sleds, down a steep open meadow and hanging on to the horns. Cheap thrills!
To offer a dissenting view, if just 2 miles from a road, skin and quarter with just a knife, most knives should be able to do this without sharpening. Bone out the front shoulders but leave bone in the hind quarters, much easier to rope onto a pack frame and hang in camp to get a rind on it in cool temps. 2 guys could carry out an elk in 2-3 trips at the most. You would just need a knife, some paracord, game bags, water. A hiking staff is mighty handy once you have elk on your back.
If the hunters are not in good shape, and even if they are in good shape, my advice is they rent a couple of horses and let them do the work. Like mentioned above, it isn't worth a heart attack, or your partner missing his valuable hunting time. Where I live in Montana you can rent horses (4) and a wrangler to retrieve an elk for $300-400, depending on how far the elk is from the trailhead. They will trailer the horses to the trailhead, you lead them to your elk, the wrangler guts and quarters the elk, if you haven't done it yet (which I don't recommend), loads it on the packs horses, and then you and him ride to the trailhead. Meanwhile, your partner who hasn't got an elk gets to make good use of his limited hunting time and hunt elk instead spending a day or two working his butt off packing out your elk.
I like Walt's idea the best. Now I might just have to ship "Hoot" my Belgium/Quarter horse to Montana next fall :) Doc
I've always packed them, but as I get older, Walt's recommendation looks more and more appealing. I do it similar to what bowdoc does, except I do one side at a time. I.e., I skin one side and take off the front and rear legs, then the loins and neck meat. Then roll the beast over and do the same on the other side. Depending on the length of the pack, I will bone the front and rear quarters before packing out, or, if the pack isn't too far, leave them in tact and bone them back at camp. I cut and package my own meat at camp and take it to the nearest cold storage. 60 isn't that old. You can do it. Good luck.
Only hunt uphill.
I carried two pieces of bone out for five miles. One bone had 7 points and the other bone had 8 points. Antlers and cape was some of the hardest work.Hope you invested in a good packframe. I did right when I got home from that trip. I'll be ready for the next one.
Dave,
Depending on how steep the hill is, my old, creaking, popping, knees feel better when going up hill then when carrying a load down the hill.
Don't get me wrong, I have packed my share of game out from the back country, on my back, even though my horses were only an hour and half drive away. But, that was in my younger days and my body is now paying the price and breaking down from carrying those heavy loads.
Lot of good advise here. With the temps your anticipating there's no rush other than keeping critters off your meat.If horses are an option I'd go with them. We use a two wheeled game cart to pack out if the terrain allows it and horses aren't an option.(Wilderness areas don't allow wheeled vehicles) Two guys can haul more weight with the cart than on their back. Don't take anything you can't eat or don't want to mount.
Doc if your thinking on shipping "Hoot" out next year you ought to strap a couple of those deer you shoot this fall on him to see how he takes to it. Not sure if your ready for the Rodeo yet :bigsmyl:
If you can't pack the meat out with a friend to help.You may have to look for a smaller critter to hunt...I ai'nt going to Montana to rent a horse and there sure ai'nt no horse rental within several hundred miles of where we hunt and very limited access to them four wheeler deals.As mentioned above there really is no easy way to move a 450-1,000 pound critter.bowdoc
Bowdoc, Forget shipping "Hoot" to Montana, he is on a FedX truck to Seattle right now...enjoy :D Doc
Thanks Doc that will be great,I will put him to work in about 2 1/2 weeks packing my gear into the bush....ya da man.....bowdoc
What you need is a couple of 25 year old partners that can read a GPS. Just mark the spot and go get them. Hand them the GPS and say . . FETCH!!
Dang I wish it worked that way. LOL
Jason and I hope to have this problem in 5 weeks.
Mike
If your thinking pack frames, a good tip is when loaded up, rest up by backing up to a tree and leaning on it.
Its easier than shucking off the pack and then, after resting having to strap it back on and rise up again with the weight.
A couple of "walking staffs" cut from small saplings, will help shift some of the load from your ankles and knees to your arms and upper body.
It also aids balance in rough country.
In Australia, we dont have Elk, we have Sambar, which are a large deer, not quite as big as Elk.
A common method is to skin along the back bone and remove the fillets and place in a pillow case.
Gut the animal and take out the eye fillets, place in pillow case.
Remove the back legs with your knife, take your time and feel around the hip ball joint, and remove the bottom of the legs at the hock joint.
Leave the skin on to keep the meat clean.
remove the front legs, leaving the skin on and taking off the lower leg at the hock joints.
Each leg is one pack load. You have almost all the best cuts of meat, in neat and manageable loads.
If you take a bull, the only change is to cape him first, which means another two game bags for the front legs.
If you take the animal in the afternoon, there is a fair chance of running out of daylight.
Some game bags and rope, to haul what you cant manage before dark up into a tree out of reach of other animals could also be handy.
What bowdoc said but I use a small plastic drop cloth for painting. Its lite and rolled up tite and fits in my daypack. Also carry 4 of those Z shaped screw in hangers you get just about anywhere to hang quarters from trees with.
Hey!!!! don,t forget the ivory, as in teeth.
Sounds like every thing has been cover except marking tape. Take plenty of it, and don't spare it. We almost lost our elk last time on the mountain as the GPS died and the only thing I had to mark a trail was the tail of my shirt. We found him, it just took a few extra hours. I will never leave camp again with out 2 roles.
JW
Good point about the marking tape-just remember to remove it when you're through. I had to leave my first elk on the mountain, and if it hadn't been for the flagging I don't know if we would have found it the next day. Those aspen benches all look the same after a while.
Around here we bone em out if we don't have horses. Use the hide to keep the meat clean, carry a couple of frame back packs, canvas game bags [we made some]. Might take two guys two trips. Or if it is not too hilly make or buy a one wheeled game cart.
If you have two saddle horses you can make one trip. Open carcass up, cut in half at ribs. Split front quarters down the center of the back bone with an ax. DO NOT CUT THE HIDE. Repeat on hind quarters. Lay quarters over saddle inside out, hair to saddle. Where the saddle horn pokes the hide cut a slit just big enough for the horn to pass through. Tie the legs undetneath.
Just man up, my gramps is 77 years old and can pack pound for pound as me.
Just kidding, I packed 90% of the meat when I was hunting with my grandpa.
Steve
Where I live in western Montana I could hire horses or mules, also. We must hire them, however, before the season. This idea contains both additional expense and inherent risk of paying for what is not used. This is an expense that renders a successful hunt much less fulfilling. Perhaps when ten years have been added to ages.
***
In the past I have always hunted on ranches where a tractor was available to transport gutted carcass to the steer slaughter pen. We would then butcher from a gambrel and put the quarters into a cooler for about two weeks. Then, using professional equipment on the ranch, render the animal into steaks, chops, tenderloin, sausage, etc. Pretty painless and straightforward.
***
Just maneuvering such a large carcass to dress it seems, on the surface, to be a major undertaking. Yet no one mentions what tools or accouterments are needed to do this -- beyond knives and saws. Are mature elk not so large that one man can hold leg out of the way while the other uses the knife? We need not be concerned about turning the carcass, flipping it over, to dress it?
Into what do we put the meat for transport to truck? While I don't think there will be much of a fly problem, what prophylactic do we want to use?
What do we have around the pieces, on the truck bed, or both to keep body fluids from the truck? "Truck" might be pick-up, might be Landcruiser.
1 person can field dress out an elk with one knife, saw is nice to cut skull cap off to carry antlers. a small length of paracord is handy to hold a leg out of the way if gutting but not needed if doing the gutless method. Put the meat in game bags and place on branches on truck bed to keep any industrial fluids off meat. game bags will keep bugs off. if no truck bed, use plastic paint tarp to keep any blood off vehicle interior.
There ya go! Someone finally figured out what the saw I mentioned in the beginning is for. I've never been in on an elk pack were a small light weight packsaw wasn't handy for some task. After all the boning (which I do too) why then turn around and pack the complete skull?.
I don't use a tarp, that's what the hides for. There are many good ideas and personal preferences in this thread. :)
I agree with Orion, If your not in that great a shape, and elk never seem to expire on level ground, rolling one over can be almost as hard as getting him out of whatever patch of s*#t he crashed into when he fell. I know it is kind of heavy but a come-along or pulley system comes in handy. What I do is make a recovery pack with everything I need in it and leave it at camp or trailhead and after the shot I mark everything with ribbon and go get it. This keeps me from starting to track the animal too soon and possibly spooking it into going further than I want it to.
The only bone I carry out is the ham, because it makes the meat easy to manage. I use the method of skinning half on the ground by cutting from tail to nape first and pulling the hide off toward the feet. Then I cut off the hams and shoulders, saw the lower legs off, and remove backstraps, etc.. The rest you just cut off in chunks and bag in cloth sacks.
We often pack meat to an accessible area and use a game cart the rest of the way.
I agree with the others. Carry no bones, bone it out. Take a sharp boning knife and bags to carry it. Never have to cut any bones or nothin, just take home the meat. You guys are all over this stuff!
Everyone has good input on this! Having hauled out elk on my back; in a one wheel cart ( I will not do that again) and on horse; mule; and donkey back- I can only add a couple notes and make a couple statements.
I think the tarp idea is a good one; but you will have to have it with you; and that makes a pack frame a good idea to have while your hunting. Even with horses at the trailhead; you will want to get the antlers and perhaps cape out first.
I had never heard of pulling the elk out on a tarp. Sounds good though.
I take those fold up emergency blankets that are like what they found at Roswell. They are the size of a pack of cigarettes - until you unfold them. They will never be that small again; but are good for laying meat on as you bone out the animal; and your more likely to have a couple in your pockets than a plastic tarp on your back ....especially after a few days hunt. Seems like you never get an elk when your totally prepared for it..but the tarp idea has merit. Both can be used for emergency lean/2s and that can be a lifesaver.
I would second the parachute cord idea. When you leave your elk that you cannot carry out; you will need to hang it up to let it cool; and dry. And cord is really handy when your trying to gut the elk out. You will not regret having it with you ( helps with the emergency shelter deal too).
One thing I have NOT seen mentioned is: WATER. Take water with you; and get a filter pump of somekind.
You can sweat yourself to death - REALLY !!!
Dehydration makes you weak; and your heart needs all the liquid you can drink when your hauling the elk out- however you do it !!!!
Remember that some states have laws which are enforced with glee; about leaving behind ANY meat. Idaho is one of them. The tenderloins are inside the elk along the backbone and rib cage; and rib cage meat is meat according to the law; as is neck meat.
With hay prices the way they are- you might find horses to rent easier than ever. Then again; people are shooting their horses: because they cannot FIND hay to buy- let alone pay the $200 plus a ton to buy it. You will need a pack saddle or a regular saddle with saddle panniers.
don't overload a horse; take two trips; and bring some 'vics vapo rub' - you smear it in the horses nose BEFORE you get it close to the elk.
You will need parachute cord or rope to tie the elk on the saddle; and keep checking it to make sure the saddle does not slide over to one side.
Making even loads on each side is a must.
If you haul out the antlers - cover the head of the elk with your friends shirt. If the pack animal looks back into the eyes of an elk - well you will find out the meaning of the word 'wreck' in packer terminolgy.
Also put the rack on the saddle with the nose end of the head towards the head of the horse; the rack will go through trees without getting hung up as easy. You can tie a branch across the antlers and let the branch sit on a jacket or something to pad it; so it won't wear a hole in the pack animal ( see wreck above).
I would get a halter with brass tabs- that fits behind the ears of the pack animal. That kind will tighten up and help you pull the pack animal; but don't use it as your only halter; as they fall off easy- and also have the tack dealer explain how they work. They can be like a rubics cube to figure out how to put on the horse. But they are worth it to have- especially with a horse that you are not familiar with.
Check all the leather on a saddle; and even go to a local saddle shop; and have them show you how to do simple repairs and explain how pack saddles; and saddles- sit on an animal.
And how to adjust the straps..
When you tie a load on; be prepared with the right knots to take it off - or have a sharp knife and courage. When a horse or mule or donkey or llama panicks - like when a load shifts... see reference to wreck above.
If a pack animal starts to get away from you - and there are ankle sized trees around; then walk around the tree with the rope- and use some Kentucky leverage on it. OR LET GO OF THE LEAD ROPE. Better to stay alive.
I am trying to say - if your not familiar with horses or other pack animals - you can get hurt.
I like the pack frame and take breaks- by leaning against a tree system.. better than any other than the pack animals I am used to...
Think your health first!!!