I'm a nerd. I can't help it, I like to tweak and break things that have no business being broken.
In my researching and looking, I've found bows like the Dalaa and the Titan. I believe the Dalaa is not ILF, but the Titan is. Both are aluminum risers with full adjustments. Both are 17 or 19", so by my figuring a 56-62" bow depending on the limbs, right? When I look at the target recurve risers, they're all 23-25". Why the huge jump in size?
So then I start looking at the ILF limbs, which offer a huge selection of materials, modulous, etc. I think I'm reading myself into craziness.
Maybe I should just stick with wood for a bit.
I've got a Dalaa and a DAS hunter on the way. They are awesome bows. are they Trad?? I say yes, just as traditional as the fibergass that's in the limbs of almost all custom bows out there, just as trad as carbon arrows. Do I care if someone thinks it's trad or not?? NO! I love shooting my metal risers, and I'm gonna keep
'em, even if they don't meet someone's requirements of being "trad". :cool:
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j50/atlatlzoom/Dalaa.jpg)
:help:
I shoot a titan riser with a bunch of diffrent limbs, I shoot better then ever. Is it trad of course! Metal risers have been around longer then me lol
This topic never gets anywhere other than hurt feelings every time it comes up. They may be trad and maybe not, just how you want to look at it. Metal risers have been around before the advent of training wheels, that just fact. Shoot whatever flips your switch!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Not only are they "trad" but they are as simple or as complicated as you want them to be.
They needn't be any more complicated than any other t/d riser out there.
Lenny
They're welcome in my camp, are traditional, but if I won one I would sell it without even bothering to shoot it. I just love the beauty of natural wood and craftsmanship which are an important part of "traditional archery" for me! I don't doubt for a minute that they are fine shooters. To each his own.
There is someone out there that has a signature line, "as trad as I wanna' be". That pretty much sums it up. Everyone is as trad, or primitive as the case may be, as they feel led. You can tell anyone anything, but people generally do what they have made up their mind to do. As such, to each his own. Dalaa, ILF, DAS are all as trad as you need them to be.
Shoot straight, follow the rules, be ethical and it should be good to go!
Good Hunting,
Charlie
One could argue that anything other than a self bow and a string is not trad, but that would eliminate most of us from this website. I don't have an ILF bow yet, but ask me again in six months. Bob Morrison makes ILF bows and is currently shooting one as his main bow. I don't think anyone is going to accuse Bob of not being trad -- at least not to his face!! :-) The bows you are suggesting are very nice and do not have wheels, cams, or multiple cables attached. They are trad in my book. Not that I have anything against hunting and shooting weapons that are not trad, like compounds, crossbows, rifles, pistols, shotguns, etc. When it comes to archery though, I like the simplicity of a recurve or longbow. Like Fred Eichler says on Masters of the Barebow Vol. 2, we should not hunt with trad bows because they are more challenging, we should hunt with them because in many situations they are more efficient (as compared to compounds). I agree with him. By the way, although Fred is a very accomplished trad archer and has taken every species of animal in North America with a trad bow, he also shoots compounds in some situations. Those of us who are outdoorsmen and love the shooting sports should always support our brothers and sisters who share our interests, regardless of the weapons they choose. I also prefer flyfishing, but I have bait casting and spinning gear too. So-called "purists" in any pursuit are usually among the best, but they really need to avoid becoming elitist. I have found the people on TradGang to be among the best and most supportive people out there, as evidenced by the comments in this thread. Way to go TradGang!
Allan
What is trad???
good question pseman!!!!! That one none of us has an answer for.
I really appreciate the responses. I certainly don't want to start any fights or arguments as to whether a non traditional recurve or metal riser is a "traditional" item. I was interested to see how people viewed the risers, and the overwhelming response seems quite positive.
Like I said, I'm a tinkerer. I look at the level of adjustability on the DAS and the Titan and the gears just start turning. Then I look at bows like the Widows and the Dryads, Bob Lees, and Morrisons and fall into the romance of the older times.
I really like the analogy to the fly fishing. I own a top of the line carbon Orvis, and an old Eagle bamboo rod, not to mention a few in between.
I love all of them, and use them when I can. I think I'll move that idea to my "traditional" bows.
Last week I received my first ILF bow from Tradtech - A Pinnacle 2 with some deflex reflex wood core limbs .Have shot most of the last 10 months with a one piece static recurve . The previous 14 years I have been immersed with Primitive/natural bows and arrows
Which traditional equipment has given me the greatest satisfaction and sence of acheivment out hunting or on the 3d range in my over 30 years in archery - Primitive .
Which traditional equipment have I come to appreciate in the last year as more accurate and user friendly - Ilf and the like .
The RER Arroyo I bought last october and this ILF bow are an absolute joy to shoot - I am acheiving far superior accuracy and consistency shot to shot than I have acheived with my selfbows shooting the same arrows .
As for defining Traditional - simple - handing down knowledge from one generation to another . This may be prevailing belief or accepted knowledge . This means that Tradition is not static but changes as each generation adds its advances in knowledge .
In traditional archery's case the use of modern materials and idea's are challenging peoples accepted veiws on what was / is to be traditional for the next generation which can be hard to accept when your comfortable in your veiws .
Regards Jacko
Wihill
I've sold all my bows except my ILF bows.I have 2 Dalaa's,a 17" and a 21".I have a DAS Elite target bow and Warf.
The adjustibility you mention is more so that someone can fit a bow and set of limbs to their draw length and hunting situation requirements than anything else.After that you have a small range that will help you tune borderline arrows.
The biggest selling point for me is the ability to get great limbs at good prices without waiting 6 months on a custom bowyer.
Adjustability does have it's advantages.I once owned a very expensive custom that I couldn't shoot very well.After I sold it I found out it was tillered backwards from other bows.With my ILF bows I can adjust tillet to suit me and I've played with tiller enough to know that for me it does make a difference.
As for being traditional,that's for each person to decide ON THEIR OWN.
Well I have a titan,gamemaster and two Das bows.I also shoot wood and selfbows.I notice no difference in how "trad" I feel when I set one down and pick up another.I say we are ok with the whole trad thing. :bigsmyl:
If there are no training wheels on it, it is trad.
ChuckC
Yes. It's just another way of attaching limbs to a bow.
I miss with metal risers just as well as I miss with wood. "Trad" ain't in the riser it's in your blood.
Traditional just means no compounds.
...
After some reflection I think trad is more of a mindset than an equipment choice to a degree. Trad means something different to everyone on this forum. My personal definition of trad bows/bowhunting is my HH Wesley Special with a back quiver full of arrows but thats just me. Like someone said before shoot whatever flips your switch. Just don't shoot a wheelie and tell me your a trad bowhunter. Gota draw the line somewhere.
You guys need to thank the wheelbow guys or you would have no trad stuff.Untill they were invented everything was just archery without all the different definitions of everything. :)
Again, thanks all for the insight and the thoughts.
I've been on the fence between picking up a metal riser or a wood takedown, and the information in this thread certainly isn't making it any easier.
That's a good thing.
I may just have to pick up one of each..
I certainly enjoy shooting my tradbows, they're quickly becoming my favorites. I can't cheat them, it's not like my compounds where I can pick it up, pull the release to my anchor, set the pin and the arrow will usually be within an inch of the pin. I have to work with the 'curve, and practice daily - something I look forward to when I get home from work. :)
Speaking of which, I think I'm going to go out now..
:archer:
Here's what I posted on another site concerning the term "traditional"....
For those of us that cut our "archery teeth" in the 50's and 60's BC (before compounds) the word did not exist....it was bows (a stick with a string) and arrows (wood, aluminum. fiberglass and steel) in those days. And mostly we worried about becoming better shots so when someone came up with a "gadget" or new way of aiming it was all OK unless it didn't work. All the term really means and its only real significance is to differentiate between "stickbow" shooters and compound shooters...that's all it will ever mean to those of us who know the whole story and actually lived thru it. All the stuff that gets thrown in the discussion is not much different that all the stuff that compound shooters put on their bows. In other words, those who would really like "traditional" to be "traditional" (i.e. simple) make it more complicated (less simple) by throwing out inane and meaningless rhetoric about what they think it should mean. So let's keep it simple...just do away with the concept and simply understand that archers have options, all the way from "primitive" tackle to modern tackle (i.e. compounds) remembering all the time it is not the weapon that makes the hunter ethical or a sportsman...it's really a question of one's character....that my friends ( the character thing) is the traditional thing that separates the good guys from the "other" guys.
Check with the organization that is holding the Trad event the rules vary.
Love my gamemaster-one of the few best shooting tradbows I have ever shot and I've shot a lot of them. Would prefer to shoot wood, but the GM2 outperforms and outshoots most of my wood curves.