Nice looking terrain! ;)
Man, I need to suck up some more, and come see ya!!!!!!!lol....Looks like some kinda fun there!!!!!
Sure do Brad. Lots of work till Sept. then lots of fun.
Can't wait to see the pictures this fall!!!
WOW! looks like a great place to spend some times in the woods Jesse
Jesse -- no disrespect intended, as I may be ignorant of your local ethics and laws ... but is salting legal in ID? And how far did you pack in this 50-pound salt block? And how did you built that elegant stand ... without a ladder? I think hunting should be mostly ... hunting. d
Dave, No disrespect taken. The lick is going to be gone by hunting season and I will NOT put another one out. It is a good waterhole/wallow that they use all the time and I do it to help them out. I only had to pack the salt lick about a mile. As far as the stand I did not build it an old man did years ago and I was showed by him where it was. I don't know what you mean by you think hunting should be mostly...hunting. Are you implying that the stand is not hunting or the lick or both?
I hope that salt block is not in Idaho. Our laws here don't allow it, and for good reason.
The hunting here is fair and square, you and your bow against the animal. Nothing else allowed.
You'll learn to like it. This is the way hunting is best enjoyed------wild, natural, and free.
The law reads that it is unlawful to HUNT any game animal by means of baiting with grain, salt of any form, liquid or solid. Yes I know the law and like I said the lick will be gone come hunting season and I will NOT put another one out nor hunt over it if it were still there. I already like hunting wild, natural and free game.
....yes, but the mineral block will have gone into the soil, and animals will continue to eat the dirt to get the mineral...
Not trying to be argumentative, but if the right (or wrong, depending on your position) game warden finds your "lick", he may take issue....
$.02
Well I guess I will just have to stay away from the area now and I wont shoot a deer on my property that is crossing it to go to my neighbors to eat the hay and lick the salt blocks on his property.
Jesse, my post was NOT an indictment of your ethics; just trying to save you a citation...
Different parts of the country have different methods, and I'm pretty open-minded. But your local law enforcement has specific rules.
If your neighbor has cattle, and puts out salt and hay for them, that is his primary reason for doing so...and if deer or other game come to partake, so be it. But it was NOT put out primarily as a game attractant.
However, I guarantee you that the salt in that block will create a lick that will be there for YEARS...in fact, it will probably do more to draw game AFTER it's leached into the soil...in five years, there will be a hole the size of a pickup bed where that block sits now, and just as deep...
The wildlife in your area do not NEED that salt, they've been getting by for a long time without it. And true, if you get lots of traffic and some good rains, the block MAY not be there in two months....although I'll bet it is....
If someone sees a salt block next to a wallow, with a stand next to it, and reports to the game authorities, my guess is you'll have a visitor in a uniform before the season is over...
Like I say, I'm not trying to bounce you about your ethics, just trying to save you some grief.
good luck
:archer:
Jesse -- Our collective point is, legal or not, this is not the kind of hunting we like to see celebrated on this site. I think Rik summed it up nicely in his second and third statements. Although we can't all always live up to our own "best hunting" ethics, that's what we want, and need, to celebrate. The harder the better. The less certain, the more challenging, the more woodsmanship sill required, the more we have to learn about our prey and its habitats, and thus the greater the satisfaction when we do succeed. Best luck, dave
I allready said that I will or would not hunt over the salt. But I will sit over a water hole or wallow. So anybody who sits in a tree stand over a food plot and shoots a deer should not celebrate it on this site and I wont post pics. of an elk if I shoot it sitting over a water hole. I am done with this.
So I guess, legal or not, we'd better quit seeing dead bear pics with a bait barrel in the background????? And heck no, don't "celebrate" it either???!!!
I've shared a hunting camp with Jesse...NOBODY hunts harder, you can bet on it!
I too have shared a camp with Jesse and will again as I am the fellow Trad Ganger he is hosting. He is an upstanding fellow trad hunter, his woodsmanship and hunting skills are top notch, tracking ability better than most others, and his willingness to hunt hard and long will leave most others gasping for air. I look forward to sharing camp with him again this September.
I have shared a camp or 2 with Jesse also (I am his dad)and it sounds like fireman 3311 and Rick Wiltshire know him very well. I have hunted with quite a few people and none come close to Jesse as a hunting partner or as a friend for that matter.He always is willing to go the extra mile and he always wants to help the other guy. I could not be more proud of him as a hunter and a son.
Strange... I see plenty of people here post pics and hunts that involve bait, food plots (bait), feeders (bait), bait barrels. I guess we all better spot and stalk bears from now on, now that would be some thing to celebrate. :readit: I wouldn't bash any one with out knowing the whole story, or situation. Good hunting to all.
You have friends/hunting partners that attest to your hard hunting abilities I dont know you, Good for you. Hunting over a natural wallow or even a water tank in some areas no problem. Stands are a personel choice I like ground blinds. You may want to rethink this situation. In your state what you are doing with the salt block is illegal and unethical.
As those who know Jesse have said he is a hunter in every sense of the word.
I would celebrate any animal he takes, because I know he worked his butt off for it.
Its really simply a question of whether what he's doing is legal or not. Whether its right or not is a completely different discussion. Nobody's casting doubts on anyone's hunting abilities.
I can tell you that that salt block will be in the soil for many years to come.
I wasn't trying to hurt his feelings, just trying to save him from a VERY EXPENSIVE fine from the Idaho Fish and Game Department.
Their rules are highly restrictive, and if they get their nose on a scent, they will dot every "i" and cross every "t."
It's best to just steer clear of anything that might interest them. Their tolerance level is just about zero for things like this. They have a tough job to do, and they do it extremely well.
Just take our suggestions as good advice from well meaning fellow hunters.
Well I was not going to post on this thread any more. But after read a few posts on that what I was doing was illegal I thought that I would state once again that I AM NOT GOING TO HUNT OVER THE SALT BLOCK. So I guess that it is not illegal what I am doing. Thanks for the comments, compliments and advice. Happy hunting.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dave2old:
Jesse -- Our collective point is, legal or not, this is not the kind of hunting we like to see celebrated on this site.
This is your opinion Dave, I'd like to know who you mean by "we".
QuoteOriginally posted by Jack Skinner:
In your state what you are doing with the salt block is illegal and unethical.
Illegal yes, unethical however, is a matter of opinion, and I for one see nothing wrong with using a salt lick(if legal where you are hunting). It's already been said, but it is no different to me than baiting for bears...
Jesse take it with a grain of salt. Some guys get a little carried away on here with that kind of stuff (depending on the animal)I've asked the game and fish the same ? and always get diffrent answers? That being said i know a few guys that do the same thing in ID for picture's. I tried vanilla and got the same responce on another sight. lol I can use cow in heat hunting but get hammered for useing vanilla for pictures lol. Shoot me a PM i'd like to see the pics if you wouldn't mind
I am one of the "We" Dave is talking about. With all due respect, if it is illegal, than it becomes unethical to me. If it isn't illegal, have at it. I personally don't care for baiting eithier, but it is legal in certain places so I respect it. Food for thought...
It is educational for me to read the differing opinions on the subject. One hunter's personal ethics is a touchy subject. I am happy we do it with class here at Tradgang.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dave2old:
Jesse -- Our collective point is, legal or not, this is not the kind of hunting we like to see celebrated on this site.
And, what IS "this kind of hunting"? Seems to me this was some off-season photography!
I am NOT one of the "we". The reason Im not is because I do not make judgements on other peoples ethics unless it is a clear case of unethical/illegal behavior with intent.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jack Skinner:
In your state what you are doing with the salt block is illegal and unethical.
Is it illegal in Idaho? I would be interested in being shown where exactly in the Idaho regs it addresses the use of salt licks for photography.
__________________________________________
I scoured the regs and could not come up with regs on the feeding of game. This is an oversight by the Department. Other states have both baiting rules AND feeding of game(non-hunting) rules. Without the latter, it is left a grey area.
A curious thing to me is Idaho's definition of "hunting". After reading the baiting rules and this definition, I have my own opinion of what the INTENT of the laws are and for ME, it is a pretty dark shade of grey. But, they are not near clear enough. These types of grey areas in the regs need to be addressed and made crystal clear to the public. The consequences to the individual who unintentionally breaks the rules and to hunting in general are too costly.
If it were clearly illegal, then I would agree that it is unethical. But when the laws are unclear, it is up to the individual to decide for themselves the legality and ethicality.
In all instances where laws are not crystal clear, its a good idea to speak directly to enforcement officers and get their opinions. When it comes right down to it, no matter if the laws are fuzzy, ignorance is seldom a defense in the eyes of the courts.
When it comes to ethics, I feel it a good practice to share what our own personal ethics are and leave it to others to connect the dots. If our intent is to help others and encourage ethics in hunting, it is counter-productive to come across in a "holier than thou", judgemental manner. And it is SO easy to come off that way when one only has words on a page to go by. Its also easy to forget that behind the screen names are real people.
To keep anyone from getting an expensive citation due to misinformation, here's a direct quote from Page 63 of the 2008 Idaho Regulations:
"It is unlawful to:
• Hunt any game animal by means of baiting with grain, salt in any form, liquid or solid, or any other substance – including nonagricultural water as an attractant, but not liquid scents – to constitute an attraction or enticement, with the exception of applicable rules for the black bear
baiting permit."
"Salt in any form" includes salt washed into the ground from a salt block placed earlier in the year.
It's always easier to stay on the right side of the law--------and a lot less expensive.
Forget the salt, call the bulls in and have them scream in your face. It's a L-O-T more fun that way! Especially when they scream so hard they nearly blow your hat off. Now THAT's fun!
I might of missed it but I didn't think he was planning on hunting just useing it for pictures?
gehrke, I don't think his intention was to hunt the salt block per se....it was set next to a really nice wallow, which had a nice permanent stand next to it. in his words "I put the salt out to help them out, it will be gone by the time the season rolls around". I really don't think the salt was put out with the intent of attracting game, I think it was a "treat" for the animals that he really loves...however, some of us felt that (A) a game warden might see it differently (B) that even if the block was gone, the salt would remain in the soil...
QuoteOriginally posted by T. Downing:
I am one of the "We" Dave is talking about. With all due respect, if it is illegal, than it becomes unethical to me. If it isn't illegal, have at it.
We must have different opinions of what "ethical" means. I usually associate the term ethics with some kind of a sense of morals. This doesn't always coincide with what is "legal". For example, it is illegal to bait bears in my state. That doesn't mean I consider it unethical by any means, I just don't do it because it's illegal.
If all of a sudden it became legal to kill as many elk as you wanted to, then just leave them to rot, it doesn't make it any more "ethical" in my eyes...
Thats what I thought just making sure, with all the baiting is bad coming up (drives me nuts)
"If all of a sudden it became legal to kill as many elk as you wanted to, then just leave them to rot, it doesn't make it any more "ethical" in my eyes..."
Very Good Point. After reading my post again, I thought extensively about ethics and there are laws in place that ethically and morally do not make sense. I stand corrected, it did not feel right when I wrote it, lacked depth. That said, ethics and morals play a major part of my life particulary when it comes to God, family, wildlife, and traditional bowhunting. Ethically speaking, you will never find me puting out a salt lick out in the forest for any reason and the last place I will ever hunt bear is over bait. Just an ethical/moral thing with me. T
after weeding through this political/ethical mess im just going to say it WAS a nice picture and good luck this year
to each his own, and more unfortunately, to preach his own
QuoteOriginally posted by WidowEater:
after weeding through this political/ethical mess im just going to say it WAS a nice picture and good luck this year
to each his own, and more unfortunately, to preach his own
Very well put!
It's a blessing and even sometimes a curse to have a place like this where we can all gather to discuss things we are very passionate about. As long as we can all try not to judge others for our differing opinions/practices related to hunting, this place should remain a very enjoyable place to visit.
Happy hunting and good luck!
I'm probably just "piling on" here but the last few months was turkey season for most. I must say I was shocked by the number of folks with a pile of corn out in front of their blind. Next to their bow lay a dead bird. Legal? Probably... Ethical?...well...I'll leave that one alone.
My biggest thrill of turkey hunting is calling in the birds, in the middle of shotgun season, on public land, and making a good shot and a quick kill. The birds have no other reason to come close enough to me other than to check things out. Funny thing, they don't even look disappointed that I don't have a pile of corn out for them.
I didn't think about questioning the ethics or hunting style of those folks...nor did I think I was on a higher level than them...just didn't agree and thus I didn't hijack their post. They were happy and good for them.
Good Luck, Jesse, could you post your pics again? I haven't seen any elk yet this year, need to get the fever going soon.
Brian
Jesse-
Don't let them get you down.
After having had the pleasure to share a camp with you, I can easily say that I can't think of any other more ethical, hardworking, and completely unselfish hunter that I have ever met.
I hope I get the chance to share a camp with you in the future.
I am really starting to believe that the "good old days" were the ones when everyone just minded their own business. Too many people have too much time on their hands.
Best regards,
Carl
Hey Jesse how about posting them pics of that wallow. I'm new to this elk thing and would like to see different pics.
As far as the rest of this stuff, well I don't believe this post was about ethics or laws, or even hogwash. So I won't comment. If someone makes their OWN post about such things, I will give my opinion. Thanks.
Mike
QuoteOriginally posted by leatherneck:
Hey Jesse how about posting them pics of that wallow. I'm new to this elk thing and would like to see different pics.
I second that. I came across this thread too late to see the original pictures, and would love to see them back up.
Here you guys go.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/jesseminish/Wallow5.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/jesseminish/Wallow1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/jesseminish/Wallow2.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/jesseminish/Wallow4.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/jesseminish/08hunting024.jpg)
Happy hunting.
Thats a big wallow.
It will be a lot smaller come September.
nice place, Jesse....good luck in September :thumbsup:
Hope to see pics of your success!
Kevin
Thanks Kevin. Will do on the pics. I never intended the thread to get out of hand and I hope to never have another like it. Thanks to those who have said such nice things about me it was heart felt. Happy hunting.
Jesse, thats pretty cool. You had to tease me with the elk pics didn't you? Hopefully I'll have my own in Sept. Heading to unit 71 for the first time.
Leatherneck, good luck on your hunt I will pm you some more pics. of elk in Idaho.
Dang Jesse,
If I didn't know that was Idaho, I could tell you the spot in Washington. I built a mega stand like that years ago for Connie and Jason. Heck Jason was only about 8 at the time.
Mike
Awesome pics Brother, thanks for sharing.
Jesse, great pics and a heck of a spot! Best of luck come this hunting season!
I'm just glad to get to see pics of elk, we have very few in MI and it's good just to see pics..
I can't really see where all the fuss came from those pictures but to you, Jesse, keep doing what you do and enjoy living in such a beautiful place. I'm fairly certain that from what I've read, you are not an "outlaw".
To those of you that were so quick to attack a fellow preseason scouter, don't worry, I'm sure he'll still support and defend your rights to scout or view nature however you see fit. This thread has somewhat sickened me.
Brian
I think this whole thread got out of control real fast....
I think there are some pieces missing as well that moderators removed...
I do have to agree with Rik, however, that a salt block, even one that has been removed, could very well be interpreted as "baiting" according to Idaho law...
Salt for elk is a bit like ice cream for us. Certainly we don't need it. We get plenty of calories and nutrients from other foods we eat. But we sure do like it, and if it's there, we rarely say no. Once the "addiction" to a mineral lick or salt block or a salt infused area has started....
as far as ethical I am divided.
Jesse, good on you for doing pre season scouting. Right there it says you are passionate about your sport and care about your time in the field...
Anyway, my point is this got way out of control way too fast. We all need to simmer down, we are all here for the same reason and all "out there" for the same reason as well. We can disagree with each other's methods, recurve vs. longbow, baiting (or conditioned in this case) vs. not.... but that doesn't mean we are attacking each other.
My .02
Mike
Apologize to everyone who thought I was attacking Jesse and what not. Not my intention. Just a difference in opinion, that is all. No disrespect intended to anybody. Had to make this clear. T
I think sometimes everyone is just a little too quick to judge... I am guilty of this myself... There are many things I read about on this site that I dont personally agree with, but I try not to hijack someone's thread just to preach to him/her MY ethics and MY opinions.
We all need to stick together for the benefit of the sport, not crucify each other over MINOR disagreements.
Jesse,
Thanks from a flat lander (miserably stuck here in the south but feeling the mountains calling) for posting your elk and wallow pictures!
Jesse, ditto what Chuck said. I wish I could get to Colorado before Sept. to do some scouting. Even though we know the area we are going to hunt, it would still be nice to get out there and do a little scouting. Good luck when season comes in. I think I'll go get out last years pics. :) BOB