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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Dutchman on June 13, 2008, 12:02:00 PM

Title: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Dutchman on June 13, 2008, 12:02:00 PM
What's your personal standard that you use to measure your own shooting?

Some days, I do well to hit the bag at all. Other days, I'm pretty much "on" as far as my limited definition of "on" goes.

So, what does "good" shooting look like when you're released 4-6 arrows at the target?
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Leo L. on June 13, 2008, 12:18:00 PM
generally about 3-4" @ 20 yds.  Yet to be completed.  But I can tell when I've released a good arrow because it does exactly what I wanted it to do.  Mimicking that 4-6 times, another story.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: swampbuck on June 13, 2008, 12:23:00 PM
If I'm looking for an accurate measurement of my current average I shoot the 300 round.It's 60 arrows that ALL count from 20 yrds for a possible 300.

Thats alot of arrows for some folks perhaps a half round is better for those.

It can be repeated anywhere in the world and is a standard by which you can compare yourself with yourself or other's if thats what you wish to do.

I shoot 230's on bad days 260's on good days and my best half is 139

Oh yea I pay attention to that all important first shot too but working on making 60 in a row count helps me to anchor that #1 shot
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on June 13, 2008, 12:54:00 PM
Another reason I only shoot one arrow. You can feel when you make a good shot. Standing in one spot shooting arrow after arrow may help with your form, I won't necessarily even concede that, but in hunting situations, it doesn't matter if you can robin hood ten arrows in a row if the 1st one isn't in the right place.

Even if I'm not "dead on", I can tell if I'm shooting well.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Lytic on June 13, 2008, 01:01:00 PM
Will someone post or link the scoring procedure for the 300 round. I used to do it back when I was a kid but I've since forgot just what each ring is worth and how many arrows you shoot at a time, and so on. I tried a search but couldn't find it.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on June 13, 2008, 01:51:00 PM
Lytic,

An NFAA 300 round is shot indoors at 20 yards on the 40cm blue face. Scoring is X, 5 (outter white), 4, 3, 2, 1. Ends are 5 arrows each. Four ends to a game, three games to a round. A perfect score is 300 60x.

If memory serves, archers are allowed 5 minutes to complete an end, and after 6 ends the target position is changed from top to bottom, or bottom to top (double line tournament only). It's been a long time since I shot in an NFAA tournament, so the second paragraph may not be 100% accurate.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: BLACK WOLF on June 13, 2008, 02:12:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dutchman:
So, what does "good" shooting look like when you're released 4-6 arrows at the target?
For me...I'm more concerned with how each of those shots felt. Don't get me wrong...I'm still concerned about where they are in the target...but I want every shot to feel perfectly executed...whether I'm shooting standing up, on my knees, using a reverse cant, on my back, etc. etc.

I know if the shot felt perfectly executed...it's going to be very close to the bullseye.

I personally struggle with target panic so when I can control my TP 100% of the time I rarely miss...but when it rears it's ugly head...it drives me nuts!

Ray  ;)
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: JDice on June 13, 2008, 02:14:00 PM
Given we are talking about hunting, I believe Biggie's approach is the way to go. Accordingly, I think defining success when hunting is fairly easy - complete success is a recovered one-shot kill, complete failure is defined as hit, unrecovered animal, with a miss defined as a "do-over".

Defining my success when target shooting (or stump shooting) is more difficult - am I shooting my 35# 72" Tamerlane with "soda straw" target arrows at 20 yards indoors or my 60# 60" Super Diablo with 650 grain hunting arrows at 20 yards outdoors? Bottom line to me - each time I shoot I want to enjoy the experience and become more accomplished. I do have to say that there are times that becoming more accomplished means learning from my mistakes.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: rastaman on June 13, 2008, 02:24:00 PM
i'm with Biggie....my standard is that 1st shot from whatever distance i choose at my 3-d target, i want it in the kill zone.  If it isn't, i try to visualize what kind of trailing job that's going to be!
That works for me.
Randy
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Missouri Sherpa on June 13, 2008, 02:29:00 PM
I too can feel a good shot when it leaves my fingers.  I think a good group is 4-5 arrows where the holes can be covered by my hand, at whatever range I am shooting at.  My personal standard for good shooting?  A double lung/heart shot on the game of the moment is what I strive for and usually get.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: swampbuck on June 13, 2008, 02:30:00 PM
Want to improve your hunting accuracy.....pick a REAL spot not just the center of the kill zone.

I like fat wrinkle's    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: eagle24 on June 13, 2008, 02:34:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Another reason I only shoot one arrow. You can feel when you make a good shot. Standing in one spot shooting arrow after arrow may help with your form, I won't necessarily even concede that, but in hunting situations, it doesn't matter if you can robin hood ten arrows in a row if the 1st one isn't in the right place.

Even if I'm not "dead on", I can tell if I'm shooting well.
Me too.  I like to walk around the yard with one arrow and shoot a 3-d deer target.  I take my time and tell myself "this is my shot opportunity at that buck of a lifetime".  I find that anytime I practice with only one arrow, I will shoot better and my concentration is better.  If I go out and shoot with a quiver full, I struggle to stay focused on every shot.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Quill Flinger on June 13, 2008, 03:05:00 PM
For me, there's "shooting", & then there's "hunting".

   Shooting, I start practice cold out about 30 yds or so, (same for hunting practice). Before injury, I considered 9 out of 10 (90%) in a 6" wire circle acceptable for that range. (1st arrow meaning everything). I also fling quills just for the fun of it, stump & leaf shooting, aerials, without thinking about the nuances of form etc.

   Hunting, it's 1 arrow rounds for practice. In the field, it's just basic honesty. I ask myself 1st, can I make this shot with a least a 90% certainty of success? I do NOT take bad shoots. A clear unobstructive view, full broadside, or maybe slightly 1/4ing away, animal's head turned away so I cannot see it's eye(s). Only then do I release. I don't get to take many shots, but I do get to hunt lots so over a season I get a few in.

    2 longest shots I've ever attempted were 27 & 23 yds. 95% of my shots are taken at 18 yds or less. We all set our own standards & limitations for ourselves. My personal respect & love for the critters I hunt dictate my standards. But I'm lucky, I can get close to most critters, I learned to stalk long before I ever learned to kill. Shooting is just 1 part of the hunting package.

   I do not bash people that have different standards, & I don't mean to bash here. But I did cringe when reading another thread about penetration & saw a pic of a deer arrowed with a head on chest shot. I simply cannot make that shot with enough certainty. That is my choice. He made a fine shot & made the kill. That was his choice, fair enough.

   Another example was the evening of the last day of elk hunting, clear full view of a broadside 6 point bull @ 40 yds. Never entered my mind to even nock an arrow. A successful stalk was unlikely, but that is the route I took, (I did have faith in my stalking ability though, always do...LOL). I cannot shoot out to 40 yds. with a 90% certainty, my limitations & I stick to 'em for hunting.

   Good shooting hunting is more about making good decisions than it is about the shot itself, for me.

As for the question, "So, what does "good" shooting look like when you're released 4-6 arrows at the target?". It looks a lot like "confidence" that I can take to the woods.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: swampbuck on June 13, 2008, 03:33:00 PM
For me, there's "shooting", & then there's "hunting".

Me too thats why I like stickbows better it force's by it's very nature to make the hunt last longer."hunting is getting ones self into position where a choice to or not to shoot  is made.

After that it's shooting.....

nice to see that 6" standard which is far better than the paper plate crap ooops sorry 9" groups so commonly talked of because of the kill zone size.

More than good enuff allows room for error and Mr Murphy loves bowhunters
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Legolas on June 13, 2008, 04:02:00 PM
I was in the ZONE one day and shot 4 broadheads into the target at 17 yds and could take my index finger to thumb and encircle the group around the shafts.  I felt Holy and enlightened. .

If I could do that every time with trad gear I would be enlightened...


Paul
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Shawn Leonard on June 13, 2008, 04:30:00 PM
I like to walk out and pick a spot on my bedded buck target at 20 yards and hit with a couple inches of it. One shot and one shot only, I may pick an eye and ear or a spot on he rump. I can do that 90% of the time so I am ready to hunt. Punching paper i may have a different method but for hunting that is how I practice. I may do that 8 or 10 different times throughout a day. I agree with Biggie that is why I really only worry about the first arrows, if I shoot more than one it would give my mind time to adjust and that is not how it works when hunting, well maybe sometimes!  :bigsmyl:  Shawn
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: gregg dudley on June 13, 2008, 05:16:00 PM
I like the one arrow practice routine, but I don't take myself too seriously on the first arrow because I usually launch it as soon as I round tht corner of my house and the targets are about 80 yards away.  Looking for the first arrow is good excercise and casuses me to take the next 30 shots from five to ten yards.  Then I go inside and have a cold drink while watching hunting shows on tv.

Seriously, I do generally use one arrow when shooting for practice by myself and I try to make each arrow count.  I expect to be inside the kill zone on every shot inside 30 yards and within a few inches of my actual focus spot.  

Reality is that I almost always do that inside 15, usually do it inside 20 and am more inconsistent than I would like to be when I stretch out to 30.  Confidence is important though and like Kingstaken says, I think it is important to "know" you can make the shot.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: pseman on June 13, 2008, 07:18:00 PM
A shot in the kill zone everytime is good enough for me. If I had my wish, I would shoot ping-pong sized groups from 80 yards but right now I am happy with a killing shot everytime from whatever distance. When hunting, I don't care if the shot is in the heart, lungs, or both, they all result in a quick, clean kill. Don't get me wrong, I always want to hit exactly where I am looking, but as long as I keep it in the kill zone, I will accomplish my overall goal.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: stmpthmpr on June 13, 2008, 09:41:00 PM
Great thread!! Im happy to see so many's focus on the first shot.

I happen to be an alcoholic (twenty five years sober thanks to the good Lord!) and the only thing in my human weakness that I can do of my own volition to stay sober is to not take that first drink. The first is the only one that matters. After that its all down hill.

I feel the same as many here that the first arrow too, is the only one that matters. Im a bowhunter and I have yet to get a second shot on an animal after missing with the first. AND, no two shots I have ever taken were exactly the same.

It only goes to reason that in practice, I would not shoot more than one arrow at any given range or angle.

Good shooting for me is walking through the woods sober, hitting whatever I shoot at within the limits of my effective range, outside of which I will not take a shot at game.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Hattrick on June 13, 2008, 10:01:00 PM
Its when ur in the zone-if u ever been there then u no what is.

My summer routine is 3 arrows at different distances
an pre hunt only 1 arrow

   :archer:   Biggie sums it up-only the 1st counts
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Plug on June 13, 2008, 10:07:00 PM
After supper my son and I will go out in the yard and woods next to the house with 1 rubber blunted arrow apiece, a softball and a pocket full of quarters.

We take turns throwing the ball any distance.  25 cent "skins" with both missing or both hitting being halves and carrying forward.

Walking back to the house at dusk with 2 pockets full of quarters is quite definitive.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: tyee on June 14, 2008, 02:30:00 AM
4inch group at 20 6 inches at 30 8 inches@40 I like to average a kill on the 3d courses with the average shot about at 35 yards
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: ozy clint on June 14, 2008, 03:44:00 AM
plug, that sounds like the best fun!
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: ethan on June 14, 2008, 06:14:00 AM
I look at it as two different kinds of practice.  If I am working on form I carry a quiver full of arrows, but most of my practice involves one arrow.  Either roving with a judo or different angles/distances at a 3D.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Dutchman on June 14, 2008, 08:16:00 AM
Good answers, all. I see many things in these replies that I want to try.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: John3 on June 14, 2008, 09:04:00 AM
Great thread...

I'm a traditional bowhunter so that is how I practice. Kneeling, sitting flat on the ground, stand, around crouched under brush ect.. One arrow at a time, everytime.  LOL
My "first" arrow is the only one that matters at my home range or in the woods. I will shoot rounds of four arrows; one at a time.. This may take five minutes or more. It is not uncommon that I can shoot a group of 5" at 20 yards. I've always said that I do not need to be good enough to shoot an asprin out of the air, just good enough to KNOW that my arrow will hit where I'm looking on game.

John III
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: jwingman on June 14, 2008, 09:38:00 AM
One of the reasons I like to shoot 3D is that it presents hunting situations. By that, I mean a different target at a different range with each shot. I think it is the best practice for real hunting and for working on my shooting. For me and most of the guys I see shooting traditional, a score of over 200 on a 30 target course seems to come from the better shooters. The winning score, depending on the course and the distances, will usually be from 210 to 230. I feel good any time I break 200. Thats my measure of shooting good.  - jwingman
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Daddy Bear on June 14, 2008, 09:54:00 AM
I practice w/ the same tackle I hunt with including broadhead. I generally cover a whole series of shooting positions that I may use in the field to negotiate obstacles and I generally cover a range of distances from near point blank out to just over 40yards. I have a round robin I developed to shoot on a 3D target that has a light 6" circle drawn on the spot I prefer to shoot through on a deer. I'll loose one arrow from each distance with the first shot being one of the longer shots such as 30 or 40yards. I'll mix the remainder of the shots by alternating between long and short shots to keep things fresh. I'll loose one arrow each at 10, 13, 15, 18, 20, 23, 25, 28, 30, 33, 35, 38, and 40yards. I'll shoot this round robin several times a week and when I keep all of my arrows inside the 6" circle at all of the distances on that single shot, I consider myself shooting well.

I'll shoot this round robin, work on my position shooting, shoot across a woods 3D course including movers, stump shoot, and shoot a few aerials. I'm fortunate to have the ability to do all this on my own property and can do so near daily. Here are some examples of the position shooting:

Reverse cant:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeJJTTtse1w  

Forward cant to adjust profile:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZSq2u4Srv0  

Forward cant compilation to overcome obstacles:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuSylOGnBjU  

later,
Daddy Bear
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: toddster on June 15, 2008, 10:58:00 AM
To me, I am hard on myself.  When I can pick a spot and shoot just one arrow at it and nail it everytime, that is it.  Needless to say, still have along way to go to do this.  To find that consistant form and aiming  to be able to step up to a stake, draw on an animal, or stump and nail it every time regardless of distance or condition or posistion.  To me that is the pinnacle I strive for, may not make it, but will be one hell of a journey to it.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Smallwood on June 15, 2008, 11:43:00 AM
40 yards 55# 58" super shrew deluxe
 (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/smallwood1972/100_4808.jpg)
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: James Wrenn on June 15, 2008, 12:50:00 PM
Well I guess I consider myself an average shot.I want to average 8s at 3ds and should be able to shoot a 240 on a 300 round in the yard with about any bow I pick up.Bringing home any animals I cut is my standard for hunting.I don't allways meet these things but am capable of it so when I fall short I know I was lacking that day.  :(
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: rybohunter on June 16, 2008, 06:59:00 PM
I have no idea how good I am. When I'm on I can't miss. When I'm not, its ugly. A few weeks back I felt like a machine. Lately I've struggled.
I used to shoot good & then fade. Now it's reversed. I have to get this worked out.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Smallwood on June 22, 2008, 09:36:00 AM
ttt
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Al Dean on June 22, 2008, 11:33:00 AM
A little game I play.  6 arrows.  Start at 15 yds.  If you hit in a 2" bull proceed to 20yds. If you hit within 2" of first arrow proceed to 25yds, then 30, 35, 40.  At any point you fail to hit within 2" of first arrow, start over with all 6 arrows.  On my best days I can make it to 40 yds.  On normal days, it is hard to get past 25 yds.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Hattrick on June 22, 2008, 12:21:00 PM
James,  
Bringing home any animals I cut is my standard for hunting.

I`m with u on that! In the beginning i thought i was fail proof for a couple years.. Then it happen.....  an at that exact time i started recording every lose an kill to this day on a beam in my shop as reminder for that standard.  So for it`s worked for me.
Title: Re: Personal standard that defines good shooting
Post by: Scott Gray on June 22, 2008, 05:34:00 PM
I practice with one arrow from 10 to 20 yards. If I keep all of the shots in the ten or twelve ring on my 3-D target then I am happy that day. Here lately I feel very happy about my shooting  :thumbsup: