I recently received some arrows from a professional arrowsmith. I've been shooting feathers for 25 years and never had this particular problem before.
These arrows (like all my others) were ordered with three 5" feathers, left wing, helical twist. I'm right-handed, shooting the same recurve for ten years.
Here's the problem: when the arrow is on the string, looking from the shooters perspective, there is one feather up (paralell with string) and two feathers down.
All I've ever seen, or shot, is cock feather out and two hens against the riser. With broadheads (wensels) they fly poorly.
The arrowsmith says he's confused. I e-mailed him, talked on the phone, and faxed diagrams. He calls it cock feather out, but it nails the shelf and , I believe, causes erratic arrow flight.
Opinions?
Thanks, Paul
Doesn't sound right to me.
If they're 3 fletch @ 120 you can adjust nocks to cock feather out. If they're glue on's, sounds like nocks where put on wrong. Either way ( glue on's or tunable nocks) it should be an easy fix.
almost sounds like he fletched them up for an elevated rest on a compound, something like one of those drop-a-ways. I've seen some of the local compound shooters do that.
some shoot the cock feather up position as it may help with fletching clearance problems. you have to use an ultra thin shelf rest material that will fit between the two hen feathers that are pointed down at the 4 and 8 oclock positions. and you have to leave the corner of your shelf free of any rest material for feather clearance
i shoot with my cock feathers up and my arrows with magnus two blade actually fly better then with cock feather out
I should have mentioned that these are wood arrows with glue-on index nocks.
The nock is aligned correctly with the grain of the shaft.
This guy makes lots of arrows, but acts like he's never heard of this problem.
sounds like he wasn't paying attention to what he was doing.....
He fletched them for a compound that is how my arrows for my compound are.
I shoot mine cock feather up. I shoot off the shelf. The hen feather slides through the corner of the shelf between the bearhair rest and the side plate. Works good for me.
Sounds like he may have used the wrong knock reciever,ie,the TM knock reciever in the Bitz supposedly places the cock feather down,but could easily be rotated 180 degrees,placing it in the 'up' position.Don't know that's what happened in this case,but seems posible at least.Does the guy normally fletch for compounders?I'd be curious to know what ya find out.
Just dip (hold) the nock in a pan of boiling water, that will soften the glue, and twist them to wherever
you need them to be.
I've shot cock feather up also and liked it...but now I shoot 4 fletch.
I'll ask the obvious...how do they shoot?
Sounds like they were fletched with a TM Hunter nock reciever (older compound rest where the cock vane went down).
I would NOT move the nocks, because they are wood arrows--nocks need to be properly aligned with the grain.
Still, if arrow flight is bad, it would seem there may be another problem? I can shoot cock feather out, cock feather in, 3-fletch, 4-fletch, bare shaft (not with b-heads), or with parts of some fletchings missing and as long as I do my part my arrows fly fine.
Chad
This guy is strictly traditional, and for many years.
With just a field point, they usually fly pretty good. Every now and then, I see it porpoise (kick up) right after leaving the bow.
With broadheads (wensel), they fly tail high and right big time.
I believe having two feathers hitting the rest might require a higher nock point.
No, the arrowsmith says thats how he always fletches.
Paul:
That is how I also fletch my arrows commercially, I suspect the problem lies somewhere else. check to see if the point but also more importantly the nock in on straight! Not aligned with grain but straight with the axis of the shaft.
There will be very little feather contact with the shelf regardless of the orientation. When your fingers come off the string, the string is pushed to the left and the energy transfered to the arrow caused it the arrow to bow, pushing the fletching away from the riser, with very little contact.
In fact that is how Black Widow suggests the fletching be oriented with there bows.
Bob
Like others have said he more than likely used a the TM style nock reciever. I do believe this is how Black Widow fletches all of there arrows. I think you have more of a tuning problem than a arrow fletching problem.
Same same here, I think its more a tuning problem. I fletch this way also, cock feather up as per Blck Widow and have never had a problem....with the right set up.
Maybe its a spine problem?
AK.
Hi Bob,
Yes the nock is on straight, and the alignment looks good. I recently saw the slow-motion video of an arrow being released, and I understand what you're saying about paradox. But I have noticed some wear on the outside of my rug rest.
My other arrows with cock feather out fly beautifully. With a higher nock-point, these probably will too. I just don't see any reason to force another feather to hit the shelf. At least it appears that it is hitting the shelf.
I've been shooting this Silvertip for ten years, so I know how to play with it.
Why not just fletch it the way I want it, so I don't have to tune my bow for just these dozen arrows. All my other arrows are darts.
As others have proposed, I think you have a tuning/spine problem. In my opinion, if an arrow is spined properly, it won't make any difference the way the feathers are turned.
Have you spined these woods against your others and gotten the exact same spine? Have you measured the diameter against your others to make sure they are the same?
I absolutely agree it's a tuning issue. Having two feathers hit the shelf will (probably) cause me to go to a higher nock point. I've shoot a 1/2" nock point for 10 years.
One of these feathers is dragging the outside of my rug rest and causing wear.
These are 23/64 85-90 and they're all within tolerance according to my dial indicator.
Part of the problem here is that I shoot a 31.5" arrow and 85-90 spine.
The arrowsmith says he uses Bitzenburger jigs.
I have never been able to tell any difference with flight no matter how many feathers are hitting the shelf, as long as the arrow was spined properly. I shoot 4/90 fletch and can rotate my arrows in any fashion with no visible difference whatsover. Could do the same with 3 fletch too.
Now, if the feather is dragging the shelf, that's a different problem. Is there a sharp leading edge on that feather? If so, that seems pretty easy to fix with a drop of glue and or gentle application of sandpaper. If not, usually it's not a feather wearing the rest, but an overspined arrow that's the cause.
So the spines are exactly the same between the old and the new? Nock tension is the same on both? Same heads, feathers size etc.? Exactly the same save for fletching alignment? If so you truly do have an unheard of problem...send the bow to me and I'll dispose of it for you ;)
I would call and talk with him about it.
I've talked to him about it, faxed diagrams, and sent e-mails. I'm just on here because I had never seen an arrow fletched that way, and wondered if anyone else had.
Apparently that's just the way he fletches arrows. I spoke with him a few minutes ago, and he uses MAXIMUM
JC, the only variable is the fletching. All other factors are the same.
Thanks, everybody for trying to help. I appreciate it.
Oop! I posted before I finished!
Anyway, he puts the MAXIMUM helical that his Bitz jig will allow. Thats why the rear of the feather is aligned with the index, but the front of the feather is much lower.
I think I'm just used to seeing much less helical!
Does that make sense?
Im curious but when you say the arrow rest is showing wear is it right in the last part of the rest the beginning part or the whole length of the rest? I use bitzenburger and fletch LW full helical with the maximum twist I can get too. That puts the quills base centered on the shaft for and aft.If you cut down the amoutn of helical it will end (or start off center ) My 2 hen feathers ride the riser so only one hen is hitting the shelf but it is a feather and so theres give .The cock rides out left of the riser (right hand shooter). Im thinking if your arrow rest is getting hit in the beginning of the rest (toward the string) it could be your nocking point is too low and so you twist the string up.You might want to check that brace hwight anyway,maybe it changed. If its the back part of the shelf then it may be too high.
Its probably the shaft that's causing the wear on the outer part of your rest. The fletching orientation you're describing is exactly how I shoot mine, although in my opinion fletching orientation doesn't make any difference.
David
I e-mailed Kelly Peterson, and he says there's nothing wrong with using the maximum helical on the bitz.
The problem, he says, is that the index of the nock should be aligned with the MIDDLE of the cock feather, not the REAR of the cock feather.
That way you get cock feather 90 degrees to riser.
CV, I'll have to check later.
You can twist the nocks or just refletch the arrows if you don't like the way they are done.My guess however is they are probably stiffer than you need is the reason you are having problems.If it was me I would just try a heavier point on a couple of them before I worried about it too much.Might fix the problem and give you a better shooting arrow than just moving the feathers around.jmo
The arrowsmith maintained that it was too difficult to adjust his Bitz jigs to fletch them the way I wanted.
So he's shipping the shafts and feathers, and I'm going to buy a jig and learn how to fletch.
Is a Bitzenburger really that hard to adjust for cock feather out? I always heard that was the best jig available.
If you can drive a pushbike you can adjust a Bitz as well. If you order your Fletcher make sure you order the right Receiver as well. For Right-helical the Receiver should be marked with an 'R'.
To adjust you just have to open the two Hex-Screws on top of the Knobs so you can shift the position of the Magnet. Put the clamp on the Magnet and a shaft into the Fletcher for a dry-run first. Adjust the position to your liking and refasten the screws. It took me abt. 5 minutes back in 2002 and never had to readjust it so far.
PS.: IT IS THE BEST FLETCHER AVAIABLE!
The cock feather out is the standard setting on a Bitzenburger. You have to mess with it to get it to do anything else.
It's possible that he forgot to rotate the nock holder before he started yours causing the cock feather to be out of alignment. My 2 cents