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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: George D. Stout on June 04, 2008, 05:24:00 PM

Title: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: George D. Stout on June 04, 2008, 05:24:00 PM
Well you all know I'm a hard-headed, don't like change kinda' guy when it comes to archery; however, I just ordered a couple TS-1 strings  and want to hear from other Hill shooters who have tried it.
I had used it on a Samick Hawkeye and it worked fabulously on that bow, so I'm thinking it should be friendly with the Big-5 as well. The tips are plenty beefy with elk antler overlays and the inserted fiberglass on the tip.

Talk to me Hill and Hill-Style shooters.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: killinstuff on June 04, 2008, 06:36:00 PM
That's what Jack Harrison recommends for my HHC and HSS. An endless loop string I might add. Zero stretch in the string as far as I can tell. Where are you getting your new ones George? I don't want to pay $22.50 per string again.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: George D. Stout on June 04, 2008, 06:47:00 PM
I PM'd you killinstuff.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: Nate Steen . on June 04, 2008, 07:53:00 PM
George,  PM me.

Nate
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: Ontario Longbow on June 04, 2008, 08:38:00 PM
George I put a Jenkin's TS-1 on my Wesley and everything improved, I'll put a TS-1 on my next Hill as well,,OL
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: Stone Knife on June 04, 2008, 09:11:00 PM
OK call me dumb but what is a TS-1 string, and do they need to be padded? Not trying to steal your thread George   :pray:
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: stabow on June 04, 2008, 09:19:00 PM
What is the difference between TS 1 and D97 I'm not familiar with TS 1.....stabow
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: LBR on June 04, 2008, 10:38:00 PM
It's TS Plus now--basically Brownell's answer to BCY's Formula 8125.  100% Dyneema, small diameter.  8125 is 92% Dyneema, Dynaflight '97 is 100% Dyneema (larger diameter though).

I have a spool, but haven't had time to tinker with it.  I've heard two things over and over about it--one, it's usually very quiet;  two, it has a lot of initial stretch/creep.

Chad
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: SpankyNeal on June 04, 2008, 10:54:00 PM
George, answered ya "over there" so I won't repeat, but my observations have been the opposite of what Chad stated regarding initial stretch. I have gotten more initial stretch out of my 12 strand D-97's than I have my 14 strand TS+. Could be because of the number of strands but the finished strings appear to have the same overall diameter. Both have been very quiet on my Hills with whiskers, and I don't see any real performance difference between the two. Stoneknife, I like 3 bundle strings with the loops padded with 6 extra strands.
As always, your results may vary!  :thumbsup:  

Regards....Ken
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: brackshooter on June 04, 2008, 11:22:00 PM
I have a ts-1 and a d-97 string for my hill, and cant tell any difference between the two.  For me, they were both big improvements over my dacron string.  Both seem a bit faster, about as quiet, and less handshock.

Guy I bought mine from isnt a sponser, but made one heck of a string with padded loops for $12.00!!
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: JRY309 on June 04, 2008, 11:51:00 PM
I like to use D97 for mine,a 12 strand D97 is strong enough for up to a 100 lb. bow.I make all my strings the same 12 strands with .024 Halo and pad the loops with an extra 3 strands per bundle.I shoot the same string on my bows from 50# to 83#,I have the same nock fit with this combo.I don't know about TS-1 but the D97 is alot quieter then Brownell old Fast flight.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: SlowBowinMO on June 05, 2008, 09:40:00 AM
I have experienced much more creep/stretch with TS+ over D-97 like Chad mentioned.  TS+ makes a really good string, but on my bow at least it is a little louder than D-97, but much quieter than FF and FF+.

Performance and shooting characteristics are identical to D-97 as far as I can tell.  I would expect either to work very well on a Hill, or any modern longbow for that matter.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: HATCHCHASER on June 05, 2008, 01:49:00 PM
I as well have had much more initial stretch with ts plus.  I have been sticking to good ole df-97.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: SteveL on June 05, 2008, 02:51:00 PM
TS-1, DF97 FF, etc is all I use on my hills. Makes 'em a touch faster, lessens any hand buzz and reduces forearm slap. No downside to using non stretchy stuff that I can see.

But note that Mr. Ekins says non-stretch material will reduce the life of the bow. But won't declare by how much. My purely anecdotal evidence suggests you'll only get 250,000 shots as opposed to 350,000 shots by using TS-1 etc.   :)
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: SpankyNeal on June 05, 2008, 03:27:00 PM
It seems everyone get's more initial stretch with TS+ except me. I swear I had to twist up the TS more when I first put the strings on. Could be these TS+ strings were pre-stretched more than the D97's. Don't know for sure but I will align my opinion with those with more experience with them. Can't go wrong with either IMO.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: LBR on June 05, 2008, 05:04:00 PM
Spanky, there can be variations in one spool of string material to the next--could be your string was made from a better spool, or whoever made your TS string pre-stretched it and the Dyna string wasn't pre-stretched.  That can make a big difference.

I'll get around to tinkering with the TS material I have and will try to remember to post about it.  Right now I'm too far behind to think about it.

Chad
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: SpankyNeal on June 05, 2008, 10:46:00 PM
Thanks Chad, I look forward to reading your findings!

Spanky
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: Stone Knife on June 06, 2008, 05:17:00 AM
I asked Craig Ekins about using Non stretch, he said it would reduce the life of the bow by half.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: R H Clark on June 06, 2008, 06:05:00 AM
The question though is how long is the life of the bow? I mean you've got bows that are still shooting after 50 years.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: Stone Knife on June 06, 2008, 06:07:00 AM
That is it! how long do they have to last, my lifetime is good enough for me.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: George D. Stout on June 06, 2008, 08:38:00 AM
The answer I got from Craig differed.  He said low or non stretch strings would be harder on the bow...not just the tips...and could shorten the life of the bow.  He had no doubt his bows could shoot the low stretch, but I'm sure he was covering his keister on issues regarding breakage.  I can't blame him for that.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: LBR on June 06, 2008, 09:34:00 AM
I'm curious to know if anyone has actually done any tests, kept records, etc. of whether or not newer string materials affect the "life" of a bow.  I've heard of a few bowyers that have concerns, but no actual proof--just opinions.

I'm no bowyer, and don't pretend to be, but here's my simple take on it.  It's a proven fact that low-stretch materials reduce hand shock.  They do this by imparting more of the bow's energy into the arrow--therefore less resonates down the limbs to the riser (hand shock).  Since you have less vibration rattling the limbs at every shot, seems to me that if anything the low stretch materials would be easier on the bow in that respect.

I've broken a bow or three, and seen/heard of a bunch that broke or delaminated.  Most, if not all of the ones I know of had a dacron string on them.  I'm not blaming the string, but I have no doubt that if these same bows had been wearing a FF type string, the string would have been blamed in most if not all cases.

I don't shoot as much as some, but I can say my longbow has NEVER had a dacron string on it.  It's 66@30.5, and I've been shooting it a dozen years or so.  It's my #1 bow--I use it for tournaments, hunting, playing, etc.  No idea how many thousands of arrows I've shot from it, and it shoots as good today as the day I got it.  I've been shooting a Dynaflight string on my osage selfbow for going on my third year, and it's still going strong.  Some selfbows don't last three years period, especially with my draw length.  It doesn't see as much action as my longbow, but it does get shot quite a bit.

Rod Jenkins has shot more arrows in a month than most of us will shoot in a year.  He uses low-stretch materials on his bows.  I'll try to remember to ask him how many years/how many arrows he has on his bows.

FWIW--the opinion of a non-bowyer, non-pro, hillbilly nobody from MS--if the bow AND STRING are properly made, you won't be hurting it one bit by using a FF type string material.

Chad
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: Chad Sivertsen on June 06, 2008, 12:04:00 PM
This is an interesting subject for sure. I think Chad's last sentence is correct, at least according to my limited experience. George, I don't think you will have any problems with the bow and it will likely be more quiet, smoother and probably a bit faster.

I use low stretch on all my bows including several selfbows and a couple of BBOs and have had 0 bow failures. Smooth and quiet, really like the stuff.
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: LBR on June 06, 2008, 12:43:00 PM
Talked to Rod a while ago, but didn't take notes so I can't accurately quote anything.  He did mention one bow a serious archer friend of his had--a Hoyt, I think--that was shot for years, several hours a day on average, that used FF and then 8125 for the string and shooting super light arrows--never had a problem with it.  Over the period of 5 or 6 years that bow had more arrows put through it than most would ever shoot in a couple of lifetimes.

Rod didn't know of any actual tests either.  He had a good idea--if someone really wanted to find out, they could take two identical bows, one with dacron and one with a FF type string, put them in a shooting machine, and see if one failed before the other.  Of course if the one with FF failed first, it would be the string's fault and if the dacron bow failed first it would be blamed on a flaw in the bow.......but it would be interesting all the same.

Maybe Rod will chime in later and give his experiences.

Chad
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: Pete W on June 06, 2008, 07:42:00 PM
I will side with Chad on the new string materials.
It is amusing that someone will say the bows life will be cut in half from using new string materials.  Did you ask him how long the half is?
How many of his bows have failed because of the string type?
and how many have failed using his choice of strings.

I will take a chance and use a string that gives less shock and vibrations. The bonus performance is just something I have to live with.

Pete
Title: Re: Hill Bows and TS-1
Post by: HATCHCHASER on June 06, 2008, 11:05:00 PM
Chad has forgot more than I will ever know about strings...I trust the man's opinion..and Pete has tested alot of bows and strings so I'll just side with them.  I will say that different bows like different strings so imho I try to keep an open mind.  Works for me.