Disclaimer: I am new to shooting recurves.
I shot a few recurve bows a couple of weeks ago. Some were in the $500 range and some in the $200 range. To be honest, besides the grips and poundages of them, I couldnt really tell the differences when shooting them. So I wanted to ask all you traditional experts, what separates good bows from bad ones? Is it speed? Hand shock? wood quality?
Thanks
axehind
Yes!
Don't forget purdiness!
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z267/horatio1226/bows/v-archer007.jpg)
Not to be a wiseguy, but it is all of the things you list, though speed may be less important.
Honestly, a lot of it is mental. If you think it's a better bow because you paid more for it, you might shoot more often and consequently shoot better.
My old Black Bear is quiet and shoots with little or no shock. It's not as fast as my custom bows and it's ugly as dirt, but it still puts arrows on target pretty well.
Often better quality bows stack less than cheaper ones (stacking is pulling harder as one nears full draw). If you draw 28" or less, most bows won't stack badly unless they are exceptionally short. I had a 52" Herters that stacked like crazy for the last 2-3" of draw, but it still shot well. It, like most shorter bows, also had a fair amount of finger pinch. That has more to do with the length than the price though.
If you are shopping for a first trad bow, I'd look for a used bow first. You can get higher quality for the dollar and if you find you like the traditional way of life (it's more than equipment) you can always buy a new one later. The only bows in my signature that I bought new are the Herter's (bought in 1974) and the Kanati (bought in January 2008). The others I bought used and have no regrets.
Some of the used ones didn't suit me once I had them, so others now own them. I got my money back out of them and had fun shooting them for a while. Unless you have a bow as long as I had my old Herter's, I doubt you will do that with a new bow, no matter how high quality it is.
Hope this helps.
Axehind,
It's all a very personal thing. Last year I had 6 bows, two of them high end (+1K) and the rest less than $200. I held on to the lower end bows for sentimental reasons, but sold the rest to finance a new baby. Prior to thinning the herd I would occasionally bring the whole fleet out to shoot just for fun. I could tell a substantial difference in the speed and smoothness between the higher end bows and the less expensive. For me it was alot of fun to just shoot one arrow through each and experience the differences in feel among the bows. That's really the best way for me IMHO to tell the difference between certain bows. The whole journey of archery will likely take you through different bows as you develop your own personal preferences. The best advice I can give is to shoot what you like within the price range you can afford, buy used bows, and save your cash over time for bows that may be in higher price brackets and try them out. Most importantly, have fun while you're shooting. That's what it's all about for me. Tge
QuoteOriginally posted by axehind:
So I wanted to ask all you traditional experts, what separates good bows from bad ones? Is it speed? Hand shock? wood quality?
Thanks
axehind [/QB]
Just remember that just because a bow has no hand shock, or doesnt stack, or is ultra fast does not mean it is a cheap or inexpensive bow. All bows are created equal until proven otherwise. And that proof is ONLY in the eye of the beholder. No one can provide reasons of superiority that everyone is going to agree with.
Should a high priced bow be beautiful with no hand shock or stacking? Absolutely. Can a less pricey bow be the same? Absolutely
I know most traditional archers dont care much about arrow speed. But I do. I have a compound too but there is something about a recurve that draws me. It is so quiet, smooth and it feels so powerful when shooting. The arrow speed is the only thing I dislike about them. I dont need or expect 300fps. But I would be happy with 220fps. I guess I'll just have to shop around. It would be cool if they had a speed range.
axehind
I hope that you've got a loooong draw length!
LOL
I know I am dreaming for 220....
Hell, 200 would be great. My Draw Length is is 30".
I have an older slightly reflex/deflex longbow that I bought relly cheap a couple of years ago. I shoot this really well and it is very smooth with no handshock. I have gone thru several high end longbows (bought used) and I keep going back to my cheap one, that by the way is a no name, meaning I don't have a clue who built it. I think you will find that the more you shoot and imerse yourself in the traditional way certain aspects of shooting (ie: speed) will no longer matter. Enjoy the experience and have fun. Shoot whatever you shoot the best and don't worry about how much the bow costs. Personaly I think the price of custom bows these days is out of control IMO.
on this subject I enjoy shooting my $120 english longbow just as much as I enjoy shooting my montana (i know its an an "expensive" bow in the grand scheme but the point still stands)
QuoteJust remember that just because a bow has no hand shock, or doesnt stack, or is ultra fast does not mean it is a cheap or inexpensive bow. All bows are created equal until proven otherwise. And that proof is ONLY in the eye of the beholder. No one can provide reasons of superiority that everyone is going to agree with.
Should a high priced bow be beautiful with no hand shock or stacking? Absolutely. Can a less pricey bow be the same? Absolutely
:thumbsup:
That pretty well says it all. My personal experience has been some "cheap" bows shoot as well or better than any bow I've shot--and some cheap bows I've owned were junk. The same could be said of the more expensive bows I've owned and shot.
Chad
I'm shooting a Bob Lee " Hunter " 56 in.
43# @ 29" draw and it shoots a arrow at 189 fps.
And out of all the years that I've been hunting I've never heard a deer complain about a slow arrow. ! If you want to call 189 fps slow !
The arrow wt. that I used for that bow is 435 gr
take a look at speed versus/kinetic energy. Maybe you change your mind. But then again it's not about speed or kinetic energy
It's about "The Entire Journey"
Even when I was shooting compounds, I never worried about speed, it's a marketing gimmick,
It's always been about accuracy and shot placement. It was only natural to dump the compound, shoot the recurve, and quit sweating the small stuff, concentrate on becoming an extension to your equipment, and you forget about the speed, if it has the energy behind it of 150 - 175 fps or more you get a pass through a 20 yd. if you're arrow is 10 to 12 gr per bow lb.
Do yourself a favor put a recurve her along well in your hand, and just relax, breath naturally and easy and you be OK without your wheels.
But if you need those wheels to convince you of speed, that's OK too. Most traditional bow is our more accurate than their owners will ever be !
Carl
If you are like most people on this site, then you will have the opportunity to try both. When I first started, I could not bring myself to spend more than a couple hundred dollars for a bow. Then it was $300, then $500, and so on. I can tell the difference in some of the bows that I have shot, but it doesn't seem to be related to how much they cost. My Quinn Stallion will shoot right up there with my Morrison and I could buy 4 of them for the same price. My advice, determine how much money you want to spend and go shopping. Unless you go "bargain basement" you can find a good bow at most any price range. But beware, it probably won't be the last bow you buy.LOL
I think Mark's signature line says it all
" it doesn't matter how or what you shoot, as long as you hit your target" "
When I trained people in photography through my studio I would tell them basically the same thing,
" it's not the equipment you have, it's how you use what you have"
Having said that, if you get a pretty decent bow for $200 or $300, through the tuning process you can eliminate most of your problems, noise, hand shock. I just picked up a whisperstik, which is a really decent bow and it was a decent price.
Look on the classifieds put yourself an add on there, that you want to buy, and your price range and your style (recurve, longbow) you'll have plenty of guys that will make your offers, and I've traded about six or seven different bows on this web site, and every one of the gentlemen that I worked with were good folks.
Carl
Axehind,
My experience is that it doesn't matter what it costs, as long as it shoots well for you. High price does not always ensure high quality. I have never bought a new bow. All mine are either hand-me-downs from my Dad and uncle, or used ones I have bought or traded for.
Besides the bows that I enjoy making myself, I have a Howatt Hunter recurve that I shoot the most often. With a 525 grain arrow (and a REALLY clean release) I can get speeds between 205 and 210. During the summers our local bow shop has an indoor video hunt tournament leauge that I shoot in with my buddies. On each shot it gives you the arrow speed. Now, this is a fairly light arrow, but I think that is pretty fast for a recurve bow regardless of price. The bow is 55# @ 28" and I have a 31" draw.
I say all this just to make the point that, I bought this bow used for $200.00 (and the guy through in a new fastflight string, a Selway moose rawhide slide on quiver and a nice bowsock). You can find good bows inexpensivly everywhere. Bowshops, garage sales, pawn shops. Get a little reading and study under your belt so you know what to look for, and hunt out those bargins.
I attend Oklahoma's selfbow jamboree in March. I kept looking at this grungy old bow with a crappy curtian pull string and rotted spinnerbait skirts for silencers. I kept going back to it, and finally picked it up. It was a mess. The finish was bubbled and scratched and the handle was wound on electrical tape. The limbs looked like they had been painted with house paint. I asked the guy what he wanted for it. I think I got it for 30 or 40 bucks. I sanded it off and cleaned it up based on a lot of the advise from guys on this website. It is now a beautiful little 40# bow my girlfriend shoots, and turkey hunted with this spring (turned out to be a Shakespear Wonderbow). 40 bucks and some time and effort.
I think the hunt for a great bow at a price I can afford is just as much fun as hunting the game i shoot with them when i find them. Prowl the flea markets and pawn shops. Check out online resources for the going rate to get an idea of market price.
What it really comes down to is what you get the most enjoyment out of. If ya want a super fast space age material bow, save your pennies and get yourself one. If your wanting to spend less, figure out what is important to you and hunt it down. This is yet another situation where the journy can be as fun, as the final destination.
OkKeith
Keith and PSEman kid of hit it on the head. It is really a personal thing. I have had $1000 bows that were quick but did not shoot well for me and I have had some $50 bows that were quick quiet and I shot great. I myself like quiet over quick but the bows I shoot now I get both. I get around 190 fps. with 9.5gpp. and draw 28.5"s. Remember accurate and quiet is the way to go, the animal ya shoot could care less how fast your bow is but may care how quiet it is, for me it all boils down to the bows grip, if it fits me well, I can shoot it well. Shawn
If you go to a traditional shoot,most venders will let you try their bows out.And sometimes you can get a good deal and advice.I`ve had a $700. bow,and didn`t like it that much.Bought some cheaper ones,and some of them are good shooters.In the $50. to$200.range.Like what was said earler,shop around and BEWARE-it`s hard to stop the erge to buy more bows.
Like they said, it's a very personal thing. Recently I got a beautiful Bear TD Supreme (yes, the expensive one). It shoots the same as my regular and old Bear TD. But it has that overall feeling that made me pay for the extra price.
A year ago, I had a nice Redwing Hunter that was 55# at 28" but I ended up selling for some stupid reason. I only shot it a few times as I wasnt into it back then. Thats hindsight for you.... Now I have a nice compound but I do miss how a recurve shoots. So quiet and smooth. Reminds me of my little 20# bow when I was little. I keep going back and forth on getting a recurve and ditching the compound. I suppose I could have both but I'm more the type too choose one or the other.
I've owned production bows bought used for $100 and then at the other end of the spectrum I ordered a custom bow from Bob Morrison that cost over $1300.00.. Is the money well spent? I would say yes; but the answer is to find a bow that "shoots where your looking". The money spent does equal perfomance, beauty, craftsmanship ect... All that matters is that your happy and accurate with your bow.
JDS III
Some really good advice,
Carl
Lately I have tried to sell a couple of old bows for very cheap prices and got no interest. Then you see that the "HOT BOW for this season" going at a very expensive price. People will pay big bucks to get an extra 5 fps or shoot the bow that has THE Name.
I think then of some self bows or bamboo backed osage bows I have shot- slow but deadly and the romance of it is worth more than some double carbon korean foam limb for two grand.
If I made my own bow and could be accurate with it at 15 yds it would be Priceless.
Paul
As others have said, go with what works best for you. My experience is that a higher price usually means better looks, but often does not have much correlation to how it shoots for you. Once you find what style of bow shoots best for you, accept it and embrace it. Unfortunately, the one that works best for you is not always what you think is the coolest bow out there. I think straight limbed "Hill style" bows are pretty cool, but I have to admit (after buying and and then later selling a couple) that they are not what works best for me.
Pseman tells a story much like my own. I am of a frugal nature and could not bring myself to spend much money on bows. I started out with a $100.00 Martin mountaineer. That bow was pulling nearly 70 pounds at my draw length and had plenty of thump. I was not wise to the finer points of tuning a bow at that time and the handshock from that bow would jar your teeth loose. I killed my first bear with it and moved on to more expensive bows because I didn't really enjoy shooting that stick. Over several months time I traded for a couple dozen different used bows and never spent more than $450.00 for a bow. That was for a used Super Shrew. I thought that was an awful lot of money but it was worth it to find a bow that I could shoot, a bow that was smooth drawing with no handshock, and looked good. When you find the right bow for yourself, you will be able to tell the difference. It might not be the most expensive bow but you will find one that you like.
I found my shooting really improved when I got the right bow. Maybe my shooting improved because I found a bow that I liked and I shot and practiced more. Or maybe the short shrew bow required me to concentrate on my form more to be able to shoot well. Maybe I just lucked on to a bow to fit my arrows and I seredipitously got better arrow flight than I was used to. For whatever reason I was able to achieve a level of accuracy that I had not known since I gave up my compound bow. I have never shot in a league or shot in a competition or course so I have no way to measure how much my shooting improved to have the right bow, but I can tell you that it made a huge difference for me.
If you are buying used bows and you don't like what you get, you can usually get your money back on the bow pretty quick. You can find out what you need pretty much for the cost of postage shipping a few bows back and forth.
Take 10 each of the lower end bows and top end bows spray them all black and put them in a pile. Have people start picking them up and shooting to see what they liked best and you would be real surprised at the ones that might be left in there hands when the black was washed off. :D
In a lot of cases you can spend 50 to $100 extra for every fps performance difference but mostly you buy pretty. A good bow is just that no matter the cost,looks or what name is written on it.Best will always depend on which hand is holding it. ;)
I have been blessed to have owned a lot of bows and I have quite a few very nice bows on my rack now. I picked up a very well used ash Fedora TD at the Baltimore shoot for $200 (Ugly Betty-and she came with a leather selway quiver!) and that is one fine shooting bow. I was dead on from the very first arrow shot from her (the very first 4 arrows grouped the size of my fist at 25 yards). Money has very little to do with how well you can shoot any one particular bow. You can't buy the ability to shoot instintivly well. That only comes from putting in the time behind the bow. I hope you find your own personal Ugly Betty one day. You'll know it when it happens.
Jerry
What Mr. James Wrenn said!!!RC