Too good a thread to end ... let's talk more about Howard Hill longbows and their "clones"!
Parts One, Two, and Three are sticky topics at the PowWow board.
:coffee: :campfire: :coffee:
Quote from: LookMomNoSights on December 23, 2025, 07:19:11 PM:coffee: :campfire: :coffee:
Talk about timing, I ordered a Bivouac Hill Jack about 2 weeks ago! I posted on the 1st thread about my first Wesley Special in 2011.
My how time flies.
I ordered a Hill Jack just a few days ago. :archer2:
Yes time does fly, you will love the Hill Jac, going shoot one again at Kalamazoo and likely buy one
Let's see some pictures! :campfire:
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That's a mighty good looking group of bows Evan.
Shick
Room for just one more, I think. Left to right:
Northern Mist Ramer 55@27
Northern Mist Sprague 49@28
Liberty Classic 44@28
7 Lakes longbow I built from a blank.
7 Lakes longbow cont'd
7 Lakes longbow cont'd
A couple of Bivouac Union Jacks out for a rove
NM Classic TD
NM Classic 68" 45@28".
A couple of Bivouac bows. A Hill Jack on the left and a Union Jack on the right.
Quote from: Ben Maher on December 27, 2025, 05:02:00 AMA couple of Bivouac Union Jacks out for a rove
Great photo.
Minnesota morning, by the beaver pond.
Northern Mist Sprague.
My Sunset Hill waiting for an elk.
I dabbled in about every profile I could think of while I was building bows. I couldn't find a longbow I enjoyed shooting more than the H.Hill style. The first one I made was such (I don't know who has It, I saw a post that a kid needed a bow and gave it to him, it was light) and the last one I made was too. The last one I made for myself. The next to the last one Rob has it, after years of maintaining my website, I feel he earned it, he deserved more really. The only thing I wish I had tried, while my shop was still set up, would be a Hill style bow with a "ever so slight" backset. Not enough to increase had shock, just enough to allow for a thinner limb and give it a few more FFS. Anyhow, I like this thread, there's nothing like getting back to basics, Hill bows are about as basic as we can get.
I always wanted to try one of your Follower Extreme bows Mike. It looked like a fine bow. I have no doubt you could build a backset version that would be a shooter. If I had the time I'd like to try to build one myself. I've always been curious about building one with a riser in the center (not a traditional asl or a forward handle, but more of an English style). I think Allen Boice built one like that, but it didn't get a lot of attention. There are a few pictures of Howard Hill shooting one though.
40 years ago in Crested Butte Colorado with my 85 pound Big Five. I've still got a 1977 Hill Tembo in a much shoulder friendly weight and a Bivouac Union Jack.
Lookin' good Ray!
Shick
I've had the HH bug for two years now. Pretty certain it isn't curable. Northern Mist American. Hanging out hoping for a January whitetail.
I am really liking my 49@28 Northern Mist Sprague, but I bought it before I really understood what my true longbow drawlength was.
So I am actually shooting about 45-46 lbs with it. It has great cast and I am fully confident with it for deer hunting, but I felt I needed at least 50# for other hunting, so I am patiently waiting on another build.
One other thing I've accomplished is I am learning how to build my own strings. I've built four or five Flemish twist strings and am enjoying that.
Besides, they say patience is a virtue, right?
One week and KZoo. Will be up there all weekend, planning take a few bows to slim stable. Heard Steve Turray be up there be nice catch up. Anyone else going look forward meeting you. Bivouac will get a run
Quote from: toddster on January 24, 2026, 05:45:31 PMOne week and KZoo. Will be up there all weekend, planning take a few bows to slim stable. Heard Steve Turray be up there be nice catch up. Anyone else going look forward meeting you. Bivouac will get a run
Will Bivouac be there? I didn't see them on the vendor list.
I'm a firm believer in the shoot one bow quote from Howard Hill.
I've been shooting the same San Marco traditional everyday mostly since early 2020. Same arrow weight same broadheads, string ,glove etc.
My shooting has really improved and remained consistent. The arrow trajectory is ingrained forever at this point. I have shot another longbow a few times but they do not feel right at all. I pick up the SM and everything is right again.
The San Marco also works on squirrels
Great pics David; you and I have the 'right bow'; I just have to learn to let the others on the rack.
Shick
Just checking if we can still post on this thread.
New bow day! It is a beauty; Bivouac Hill Jack. 50@27 66", got a little string follow to it and it is smooth in drawing. I havnt even shot it yet.
The only thing I asked for was Bamboo limbs with Myrtle veneers, and told Jim to use his discretion on the riser. I was going to go with gray colored glass, but my other two ASL's are Northern Mists-a Sprague with brown glass and a Ramer with green glass so I thought why not splurge just a little.
Quote from: MnFn on February 01, 2026, 08:44:20 AMNew bow day! It is a beauty; Bivouac Hill Jack. 50@27 66", got a little string follow to it and it is smooth in drawing. I havnt even shot it yet.
The only thing I asked for was Bamboo limbs with Myrtle veneers, and told Jim to use his discretion on the riser. I was going to go with gray colored glass, but my other two ASL's are Northern Mists-a Sprague with brown glass and a Ramer with green glass so I thought why not splurge just a little.
Great looking bow- congrats!
Quote from: evgb127 on January 08, 2026, 09:02:22 PMI always wanted to try one of your Follower Extreme bows Mike. It looked like a fine bow. I have no doubt you could build a backset version that would be a shooter. If I had the time I'd like to try to build one myself. I've always been curious about building one with a riser in the center (not a traditional asl or a forward handle, but more of an English style). I think Allen Boice built one like that, but it didn't get a lot of attention. There are a few pictures of Howard Hill shooting one though.
Here is a photo of one of Allen Boices English model. I liked it a lot but the poundage was too light for me.
Seems I can't figure how to copy a photo. I have two Northern Mist bows that I got from Steve when I visited his shop in December 2019. The American is 68", black glass, all bamboo. The sprague is 66", yew veneers, maple core, and I think rosewood handle. Both are beautiful and are shooters. But I will never part with that sprague.
Quote from: S_Sharp on February 03, 2026, 04:15:31 PMSeems I can't figure how to copy a photo. I have two Northern Mist bows that I got from Steve when I visited his shop in December 2019. The American is 68", black glass, all bamboo. The sprague is 66", yew veneers, maple core, and I think rosewood handle. Both are beautiful and are shooters. But I will never part with that sprague.
Shawn, You don't copy and paste photos to display them - click on the message
Click or drag files here to attach them. at the bottom of the message box where you type your text. Then select the photo you want from the files/folders on your computer.
What is the weight on your American longbow?
Quote from: Burnsie on February 03, 2026, 04:34:20 PMQuote from: S_Sharp on February 03, 2026, 04:15:31 PMSeems I can't figure how to copy a photo. I have two Northern Mist bows that I got from Steve when I visited his shop in December 2019. The American is 68", black glass, all bamboo. The sprague is 66", yew veneers, maple core, and I think rosewood handle. Both are beautiful and are shooters. But I will never part with that sprague.
Shawn, You don't copy and paste photos to display them - click on the message Click or drag files here to attach them. at the bottom of the message box where you type your text. Then select the photo you want from the files/folders on your computer.
What is the weight on your American longbow?
The American is 51# @28". The Sprague is 52# @ 28". Thanks for helping with the photo.
Nice bows! I am enjoying my Bivouac, but it is up against strong competition with my Sprague49@28. Love that thing!
Quote from: MnFn on February 04, 2026, 02:34:19 PMNice bows! I am enjoying my Bivouac, but it is up against strong competition with my Sprague49@28. Love that thing!
Gary, what are the details on your Bivouac? Hill Jack, Union Jack, specs - any pics?
It is a HillJack, 66", 50@27". Bamboo limbs with Myrtle veneers. Very smooth drawing. I have only shot it a bit in my garage because of snow outside but it seems pretty quick.
My humble collection of ASL's. Thanks to anyone who has helped me acquire these beauties over the years. Only one was bought new from maker.
The American is the newest one. Got it last year but never set it up till today finally. So far so good. It's very smooth. I think I prefer it over the Shelton. At the end of the draw the American feels a lot better to me. The Shelton feels like it hits a wall. But could be its 68" and the Shelton is 66"
I've went down the ASL rabbit hole. I've accumulated these over the past year or two.
From left to right:
Louis Armbruster - Grevy Zebra
Howard Hill - Big 5
Bivouac - Hill Jack
Mahantango - Redtail
Mike Nelson - Dark Shadow
Northern Mist - Shelton
LB1.jpg
LB2.jpg
LB3.jpg
A few more pics.
The Armbruster and Howard Hill are heavy bows - all the others are 45-50 lbs.
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What's the specs and details on that NM Shelton Burnsie?! Good looking stick! :o
Quote from: DEggs917 on March 16, 2026, 01:02:06 AMWhat's the specs and details on that NM Shelton Burnsie?! Good looking stick! :o
Don,
The Shelton is 68", 50# @ 28". Bamboo lams, black glass back and belly, black diamondwood handle, black leather handle.
She's sleek and slender.
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Troy, what are your specs and thoughts on your Redtail?
Quote from: djohnson on March 16, 2026, 08:27:26 AMTroy, what are your specs and thoughts on your Redtail?
Darren,
I picked up the Redtail used a couple months ago in the middle of winter. I've honestly only taken a few close up shots into a bag target in the basement. It is a well built bow though, fit and finish is very nice.
Handle appears to be made from Bacote? 68", 46# @ 27", Cherry lams, Green glass back, caramel glass belly. I like it, hope to shoot it more soon.
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Quote from: Burnsie on March 16, 2026, 07:36:16 AMQuote from: DEggs917 on March 16, 2026, 01:02:06 AMWhat's the specs and details on that NM Shelton Burnsie?! Good looking stick! :o
Don,
The Shelton is 68", 50# @ 28". Bamboo lams, black glass back and belly, black diamondwood handle, black leather handle.
She's sleek and slender.
NM1.jpg
NM2.jpg
NM3.jpg
Thanks for the extra pics!! Love the bow sir! I have a NM Ramer and cannot believe how quiet and soft shooting it is! The Shelton is definitely on my wish list! Got a HH Redman a week ago and am really loving it with the standard hill grip! Curious how the Shelton would compare?!
Has anyone bought or shot a Legend Longbow? I just learned about them yesterday. The bowyers name is Shawn Romack - he is said to have learned his craft from Steve Turay of Northern Mist bows. From what I can see online, they are a nice looking ASL.
Son of a biscuit! I knew dang good and well not to read this thread. I don't own an ASL, but now must have one. Its a lord of the rings type deal... Looking for that one bow to rule them all. Turkey hunting will put me close to Bivouac Bow Co, and I will be driving literally right by the place on my way to visit my dad. I have a hanker'in to shoot a Union Jack and see if it fits. Now I gotta check my arrow stash! I think I have a dozen uncut cedars in the basement which is the perfect excuse to find a matching bow!
Flemish Twister,
There is a very, very nice Union Jack on the classifieds here right now, by a great guy. I thought about it but I just bought my HillJack a short while ago.
If you have not paid to get access to classifieds, this bow would make it very worthwhile to pay the modest fee for access to a very good deal.
Finally got my new Hill Jack outside. It seems to be a very nice performing bow. It was still pretty cold out s.o I only shot a dozen or so shots, but it is very shootable for me at 50@27".
I was shooting about 57# POC with 125 heads for total weight of 475 so 9.5 gpp.
I have some 60/65 that I want to try maybe with a little heavier head, just to see.
Anybody know off hand what carbon would equate to that 27" 57# woodie? I'd hate to break my good wood arrows while stumping.
No problems yet with 57# spined arrows - they seem to be performing well.
Come on spring! I love this stuff and can't wait to get warmer weather.
At Nate Steen's and Andy Man's suggestion I dropped my brace height on my Bivouac HillJack from 6 1/8" to 5 3/4". Hard to believe what difference it made. I may experiment a little more and go back up to 5 7/8" just to see what that does, but pretty happy with the way it is shooting right now.
Quote from: MnFn on April 14, 2026, 10:41:25 AMAt Nate Steen's and Andy Man's suggestion I dropped my brace height on my Bivouac HillJack from 6 1/8" to 5 3/4". Hard to believe what difference it made. I may experiment a little more and go back up to 5 7/8" just to see what that does, but pretty happy with the way it is shooting right now.
So it's shooting better with that low of a brace height? You getting any arm slap?
I shoot my Bivouac Hill and Union Jack at 6", sometimes dropping to 5/78". It seems to me that at least my bows like a lower brace height. Unless dressed in bulky clothes I would seldom wear an armguard. With a lower brace height I wear one all the time now.
Got out after the storms tonight for some shooting! HH Redman, 66" 45@28"! Loving the asl so far :goldtooth:
Took all three of my ASL's out today. Have not noticed any excessive slap. Yes they all seem to be shooting better at the lower brace heights.
Andy Man told me John Schulz said 5 5/8" to 5 7/8" on a 66" longbow. These are all 66" bows. Nate Steen seems to think lower is better at least on the bows I am shooting.
I've noticed the same thing. I have gone to 5 7/8" to 6" and found the bows like them better. I've also gone back to B50 and like the sound and feel better without any noticeable negative performance.
I'll have to twist up a B55 string and try it. I don't have any B50.
The biggest reason I use B50 over B55 is because I bought enough to outfit an archery business nearly 40 years ago. I'm finally running out of it.
I use B55 too. It is similar in many ways to B50 but except the strands are slightly thinner.
Ok, for sure I'll twist up a b55 now. Thanks Phil.
Burnsie, I love that Shelton you got. But so far I've stuck with 66" lately. It seems 66" fits my 27" draw pretty well, don't know if 68" would matter much.
I just picked up a pre OE JD Berry Vixen. It has nice slender lines and looks like the same riser wood as my older Morning Star. Easy on the eyes and a great shooter. It has a good amount of backset and seems pretty quick for a lightweight bow.
Yes Burnsie, getting some wrist slap, but I had some before I guess too. I can live with it.
Nice bow Michael! Being a chronic trader, I have sold a few that I wish I had back. One was a JD Berry Morning Star, I think 46@26.
I enjoyed a few conversations with JD about shooting that bow, he gave me a few tips. Quite a guy he is. Come to think of it, I had one of his personal bows too. That was a really nice one but a little too light for at that time.
Been busy with shotgunning, making knives, bows, hanging w/ kids, and a new job. Stepped away for a bit and it's great to see this thread still rocking. Going to be throwing a few bows together in the coming weeks including a couple ASL. Oh and I need to chase turkeys. Shop is about to get dirty
Experimenting a bit today.
Lowered brace height on my Bivouac HillJack, started shooting one of my tabs, a relatively new string I made up and an arrow traded to me by Orion. A lot of fun! All I needed.
MnFn, what brace height have you settled on? My Hill and Union Jack shoot very well and vary quiet with a 6" brace. I mostly use B50 with no silencers but a D97 string is just as quiet.
The string on it is 14 strands of D97, brace height of a hair over 5 3/4". I didn't have much time to shoot today but my first shot was at 20 yards and it hit dead on.
Arrows were POC 57# cut to 27" with 125 grn heads. Four 4" fletching. I thought I would need heavier heads but they fly great.
I want to try thicker strings, including B55 but just havnt had time to twist a new string. (Plus the current string and serving fits the nocks really well.)
Based on my unscientific tests I think you'll be just fine with D97. I posted the following on the ***********. My bows are lighter weight than yours but I suspect the results would be similar.
After reading the ASL threads I shot two bows through a chronograph to compare Dynaflight 97 to B50. To cut to the chase... I've had the chronograph for several years just for curiosity and, after completing this exercise, it's going back in mothballs. The overall results indicate to me that there is not much to show that either type of string is vastly superior. It really comes down to what feels the best on the shot.
The bows are a Bivouac Union Jack (40#@28") and a Bivouac Hill Jack (38#)@28"). I draw 27". Both bows are braced at 6".
I shot the same three arrows from both bows with the different strings. I shot multiple six arrow groups then averaged the speeds. After reading other posts the results did not completely surprise me. It actually reinforced that ASLs, in particular these two ASLs, do not react as much to changes in strings or arrow weight as I've experienced with recurves. While the arrow speeds seemed very slow when compared to the recurves I've owned, I'm not unhappy given the low draw weight I'm forced to use now.
Some disclaimers - my chronograph is a Caldwell. Not a particularly expensive instrument and I noticed some readings that were pretty far out of line with the averages.
The lightest gpp arrow I used is a carbon arrow and the nock fit fairly snugly on the bowstrings which may have impacted the speed.
I used 16 strand strings for the Union Jack and 14 strand strings for the Hill Jack because that's what I had on hand. I'm not sure it actually makes any significant difference in speed. There are no silencers on any of the strings.
Bivouac Union Jack 40# - 16 strand B50 Arrow 1 - 9.7gpp - 147fps Arrow 2 -10.6gpp - 145 fps Arrow 3 - 11.8gpp - 142fps
Bivouac Union Jack 40# - 16 strand D97 Arrow 1 - 9.7gpp -149fps Arrow 2 - 10.6gpp -147 fps Arrow 3 - 11.8gpp -144fps.
Bivouac Hill Jack 38# - 14 strand B50 Arrow 1 - 10.2gpp - 145fps Arrow 2 - 11.1gpp - 144fps Arrow 3 - 12.4gpp - 141fps
Bivouac Hill Jack 38# - 14 strand D97 Arrow 1 - 10.2gpp - 147fps Arrow 2 - 11.1gpp - 144 fps Arrow 3 - 12.4gpp - 143fps
Ok. Thanks Phil for your findings. I may shoot thru a chronograph at a local store, just to see how my speeds compare to others.
I enjoy shooting ASL's so what I got is what I'll use,(well ok, I might have one more coming)- but it will be interesting to compare.
When I said I expect your results will be similar I meant the difference between B50 and D97. Your speeds should be significantly higher than mine with both strings.
Pete George Highlander and some tough stumps.
For anyone who is interested, here's a great video on how to string a Hill-style bow.
https://youtu.be/5dzXbELf2mc?feature=shared
So Burnsie
I have to ask, which one is your favorite?