I've been dealing with some horrible tendinitis (I think) in my bow arm elbow for the last couple of weeks. Pretty sure it's from recently getting back into weight lifting. I just got a new PMA and have been wanting to get it tuned. Shooting today went from mildly uncomfortable at full draw to hardly being able to hold at full draw at all. Anybody with this issue noticed a difference in going to a lower wrist grip? Planning to make a doctors appointment Monday. I've had surgery on both shoulders, so I'm sure it's all related.
it might be what they call tennis elbow.
Don't know about a PMA but a few years back I went from really heavy Hills to an SAii to add some mass to my overall bow trying to solve what they referred to as "Golfers Elbow"
If I remember right it was a difference of what side of the elbow, inner or outer... mine was inner.
I had assumed mine was from shooting those 100lb+ ASL bows, that had relatively no mass so all the energy was landing in my hand. Took about 5yrs off from that went down to a 65# widow, and a couple of ILF rigs with a bit more mass, settled into two Hurst bows for the better part of the last 3 years... and just now coming back to a 50/60# Hill in the last couple weeks. Definitely miss ASL bows
If you're hitting up the doc, they will have some deliberately tests and things. I did a lot of "Nerve Glides" kinda like stretches for your nerves that you aren't suppose to hold. And they had me do some weird rubber twisting negative thing that seemed to help a little bit, with like a 1" diameter foam rubber thing. It's been a total of 8yrs trying to deal with it. that pains gone now but my hand falls asleep a lot and they said they are talking about rerouting my ulnar nerve at my elbow... long run im. It sure if that's a cause or effect. And haven't decided if I want someone cutting into me for something so trivial
Good luck with your docs. Hopefully they are more user friendly than some of mine
I don't think grip is going to significantly influence your elbow issue. On a few occasions, I have dealt with this kind of issue over the many years I've been at this. Some of the times it was brought on by resistance training (weights) as you are dealing with now. Other times, repetitive motion of many sorts can bring on this aggravation or inflammation...... this is actually referred to as "repetitive motion injury". Year before last, I had just purchased a new log splitter, a big mother .....and of course, was itching to fire it up and see what it was capable of. I split a lot of wood and fast. Well, taking the split pieces off the carriage and flinging them into the pile a few hundred times, I didn't feel it immediately .....but the next day, holy moly ..... could hardly bend my left elbow. That took at least 3 weeks to get back to 100% or enough to say shoot my bows.
There is no fast way to remedy what you are dealing with providing it is a "tennis elbow", tendonitis (could actually be BICEPT tendonitis! Research into this!) ..... it's going to take time and laying up on that arm. In certain cases, I found that once the inflammation showed signs of improving noticeably, I began VERY LIGHT resistance training once again, but with bands. I'm talking very light here! This to keep things moving and to provide the tendons with a little resistance stretching under very mild load, with hopes of actually speeding the full recovery. That is something you could try. I had very good luck. Also, I use natural anti inflammatory supplements when trying to heal this up...... a product called Zyflamend (look into that).
Circle back to your original question, I don't believe grip change / grip posture is going to make any difference. You need to heal it up and THEN get back at it!
Tennis elbow is caused by an accumulation of microtears, not a single traumatic injury. Tennis elbow would likely be caused by shooting a bow with a lot of hand shock, which Black Widows are not known to have. What you are describing sounds more like a traumatic injury than tennis elbow. While it is possible to treat tennis elbow successfully on your own, which I've done myself, a traumatic injury is best treated by a doctor or physical therapist. So it's good that you're going to have a doctor take a look at it, because treatment for tennis elbow is different than treatment for a traumatic injury.
Grips are very important. Once I had a Morrison Shawnee, a beautiful bow, that I bought used. My elbow started to hurt within a month of starting to shoot it. I'm sure it was the grip, although that grip evidently worked well for hundreds of other people. Same thing could happen with a BW grip. That's why they make 5 different BW grips now. One size does not fit all. So if nothing else works, it might be the drip. Unlikely, but possible. I haven't had any elbow problems since I stopped using the Shawnee.
I have had a bad elbow for years, I cant straighten my arm and I cant shoot a pistol grip only low wrist locators dont give me pain . I also stay away from asl no matter what others say all D bows have some shock . Ive gotten cortisone shots in my elbow and they completely take away the pain sometimes for as much as 5 years .
Thanks for the input everyone. Early on I thought it was more related to my tricep, as I had tennis elbow in my string arm and my bow arm felt a little different (more in the center around the nerve). But after shooting yesterday, it's moved all the way through and now also hurts where my other one did (and occasionally still does). Elbow pain in my string arm didn't affect my ability to shoot nearly as much as my bow arm.
I might see if Black Widow will let me demo a different riser just to see how it feels. I'm ready for this to be fixed though...
I used to have severe elbow pain. It never hurt when I shot my bows, no matter how the grip was configured.
But every once in awhile when the pain came it was intense! I didn't want to bend my arm at all.
I went to a physical therapist and she started asking questions I had never thought of.
One was how often do you hold your cell phone in your left hand for extended periods of time? A lot I said, especially since I retired.
I changed that pattern, by switching hands or resting the phone on the table or on the arm of a chair when using it.
It may sound stupid, but I can't tell you the last time I had pain in my elbow.
I had a Black Widow PCH about 15 years ago that I sold due to it causing me tennis elbow to the point I couldn't stand it. Got rid of it and never had a problem again.
I've been going through my own elbow pain for the past 3 weeks. I think rather than tendinitis I have some sort of muscle tear. I don't remember a specific incident but I think it was from a concrete block job I had to complete at work. Now the pain in my left elbow(bow arm) is significant. Tasks like carrying a jug of water or opening a jar of pickles with my left arm are quite painful. Hoping the break over the Christmas holiday will be adequate rest. I think I'll back off shooting my hunting weight bows until this is sorted out. At 39 I feel to young for this!!
Quote from: JamieR on December 24, 2025, 10:33:46 AMI've been going through my own elbow pain for the past 3 weeks. I think rather than tendinitis I have some sort of muscle tear. I don't remember a specific incident but I think it was from a concrete block job I had to complete at work. Now the pain in my left elbow(bow arm) is significant. Tasks like carrying a jug of water or opening a jar of pickles with my left arm are quite painful. Hoping the break over the Christmas holiday will be adequate rest. I think I'll back off shooting my hunting weight bows until this is sorted out. At 39 I feel to young for this!!
My torn labrum and bicep tendons would often hurt all the way down into my forearm. That's part of what leads me to believe these elbow issues are more caused by my shoulders than anything else. Right now, the only thing that seems to help is laying off completely. Which is hard to do. Rehab exercises haven't done much other than make my other elbow flare up. Tried to make an appointment the other day, but seems everybody is out of the office for the holidays.
Tendonitis is hard to get rid of.
I just got a new Widow. An exotic wood, PSR, 49lb@30". Named "Bossman" (For my retirement!). I tried to describe the grip I wanted to the folks at BW. But I must not have done it right. My grips are high wrist with the thumb groove side cut lower than the forefinger.
I sent it back to have the grip modified and It's now perfect! And I think that grip method is easy on the bow arm elbow.
The bow and the grip look really nice and points and shoots like it supposed to.
I'll try to get a photo of the Bossman Grip posted for you.
Quote from: Tedd on December 24, 2025, 02:26:45 PMTendonitis is hard to get rid of.
I just got a new Widow. An exotic wood, PSR, 49lb@30". Named "Bossman" (For my retirement!). I tried to describe the grip I wanted to the folks at BW. But I must not have done it right. My grips are high wrist with the thumb groove side cut lower than the forefinger.
I sent it back to have the grip modified and It's now perfect! And I think that grip method is easy on the bow arm elbow.
The bow and the grip look really nice and points and shoots like it supposed to.
I'll try to get a photo of the Bossman Grip posted for you.
Interesting. I'd like to see it. So you essentially are forcing yourself to keep your knuckles at a 45 degree angle and you elbow rotated away from the bow?
Yes,
Like you would point your finger at something, arm straight and pretty much locked, reduced strain on the elbow tendons.
(I had always used a mac and could easily post pics. I got a new windows laptop and don't know how to size pics. I gotta figure that out.)
The bow is out in my shop, I'll get it out and take some pics and try to post
Tedd
Attempting to post photos of bow grip
Merry Christmas!
Another vote for the low-wrist club. It might even be good to reevaluate your draw length/style. Meaning a low wrist + bent/turned-in elbow, would offer the most protection; and naturally shorten you up a bit.
I used to shoot Asbell style and found it easy to make the switch.
This is the BW PSR that has the grip the way I like it. It is a takedown, so it has the rubber grip on it. The palm swell is a bit taller than standard and the thumb groove is cut lower and angled.
It takes a lot to convince a bowyer to make it that way, it must go against standard thinking!
Big Jim made me a Mountain Monarch that has it cut the way I want it and I really like that one too.
This is the Big Jim.
Both bows are black and white ebony. The big Jim has a beaver tail wrap and horn overlay. The wood in both bows is phenomenal. The grips work good on both. I think this is about as exaggerated of grip as a bowyer is willing to put on a 50s style recurve.
How I hold the bow is probably not going to win a target match. But it kills deer pretty good.
Bassangler, mine is the opposite of that. A very high wrist. Almost no one holds a bow this way, so probably there is more accuracy in the heel down grip. I have tried it all, and the high grip is a more direct point for me. I keep shots under 20, and usually under 10.
Tedd
Trying to size these larger
with the heel down, it promotes a stable arm position with less stress on the elbow. That's all. Not for everyone, but more similar to compound, and Olympic shooters. I shoot it instinctively, with an elevated rest and don't feel I lose anything with it not being on my hand. Maybe better because for split, it's as close to my eye as I can get it.
I have a black widow pl 66" 50@28 td that I'm picking up at ETAR 2026. Right now I've got the standard grip ordered but I believe I'll switch it to the Myles grip. It sounds like a nice low grip with a flat spot on the back rather than rounded.
Of all the recurve grips I prefer the Jenkins grip
Quote from: JamieR on December 25, 2025, 02:48:27 PMI have a black widow pl 66" 50@28 td that I'm picking up at ETAR 2026. Right now I've got the standard grip ordered but I believe I'll switch it to the Myles grip. It sounds like a nice low grip with a flat spot on the back rather than rounded.
Of all the recurve grips I prefer the Jenkins grip
Many labor and sports injuries here as well. I got into ergonomics during work as a PTA, and led me to the low grip. It's one of the reasons I am playing with the ILF's. I'm using an R-Core 'Master' on my metal riser; and ground a flat on my other wood riser. Definitely figuring this all out before I'd take another stab at buying custom. It seems a-lot more bowyers are offering compound style grips more than I remember from a few years ago.
Thanks for the pics Tedd. One of the things I've never liked about most longbows is the grip. I prefer the feel of a higher wrist. But I also think a lower wrist grip would promote a lower bow shoulder and stable platform. Right now, I'd do whichever doesn't hurt my elbow and just get used to it.
As far as grip vs pain from an injury a guy would just need to try different ones to see what works for his specific situation.
Now as to high vs low grip. LOTS of target bows from the 60s-70s were high wrist grip. Some very high. I'd say that back in NFAA field archery glory days high wrist was the norm. The very low grip recurves you see guys using today seem to stem from recent compound converts to "trad" archery setting up recurves for what they were used to in their compound bows.
Up till just a few years ago medium or high wrist grips on recurve bows were typical. Some of us still use them! :goldtooth:
R
Arctic hunter, how is your elbow now? Like most of us, laying off shooting really isn't an option. I have been working on a pole bldg for my wife. Everything is sore including elbows. I shot a few today and nothing felt good!
Ryan, "Glory days"! I want that. Let's bring em back!
Tedd
It's a little better. Just a dull ache that occasionally gets worse if I try to do something with it like lock my elbow out or do a push up movement. But I haven't done anything since I posted this except a few rehab exercises. Still waiting to get in to see the doctor. Hopefully, a shot and a PT will be able to get it healed up. Might try to shoot soon just to see how it feels.