While I have killed a bunch of deer with what would be considered "short" bows.....like 56 and 58 inch Shrews, over the last few years I have drifted towards longer limbs.
My current favorite Shrew is actually 60", as is my Black Widow recurve. My Northern Mist Ramers are 62,64, 66 inches.
2 years ago I bought a super short Shrew Scout, and shot it enough, but didn't love it. To describe the experience, it wasn't comfortable to shoot for a long time. I was actually going to sell it, but decided to shoot it a bit one more time.
I took my Waldrop PacSeat to my backyard range, sat in the chair is if I were ground hunting, and holy smokes....I really shot it well.
So yesterday I knew I was going to ground hunt.My son was duck hunting on a lake nearby, and I was going to hunt the swamp adjacent. We have hunted this swamp plenty. And while there is lots of dry ground, it is the absolute thickest area we hunt. Horrible with multi floral rose and Russian olive.
I took my PacSeat and this little Scout, snuck in, and had a great morning. No deer cooperated, but I really did notice a difference in manipulating this tiny bow in the thick stuff, both while walking and sitting. My route OUT of the swamp was a path I had never taken (path as described by ONX, there was no path) and 50inches really made a difference.
So here is my thinking...I think....This tiny bow is NOT a choice for one bow does all. My 60 inch bows are kinda that sweetspot. But because it has the exact same grip as my 60 inch Shrew, I am able to shoot it well, and it REALLY works for tight spaces. I will be messing with this idea for the rest of the year.....the ground is so much more convenient than a tree.
Interesting! Like you I've been around long enough to know some short bows have a reputation for shooting much better than others due to design. The Shrew is certainly no exception. Many have stated they find the longer bows just as good to hunt with from ground or tree and that's great but for those that lean towards shorter builds, it's good to know there are those engineered to behave at longer draws.
Great post Roger give some good insight on using short bows,
Quote from: Possum Head on November 09, 2025, 10:07:17 AMInteresting! Like you I've been around long enough to know some short bows have a reputation for shooting much better than others due to design. The Shrew is certainly no exception. Many have stated they find the longer bows just as good to hunt with from ground or tree and that's great but for those that lean towards shorter builds, it's good to know there are those engineered to behave at longer draws.
I am one of those guys that have stated "longer bows are no problem" and I still believe that. I have used 66 inch longbows out of a tree with no issues. And I do believe that you can make it work.
I think that for ME, this ultra short Scout is working out to be a specialized tool. And from release to target impact, there is not a compromise. I think it has a LOT to do with form, and how my form must be "smaller" while sitting. Because when I take this same bow out to 30 yards, standing....it doesn't feel right.
60" is my sweet spot as well, but have been hunting a 66" Moosejaw Razorback lately. It all depends on the flavor of the day.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Good post, Roger. Short bows have a place in some special situations. If you shoot it well, keeping it for those situations makes a lot of sense.
I hear ya Roy! Shrews, MOABS, and Cenaurs... 58 to 60 inches dominate my kills by FAR.
Those lengths are much better when you hunt in their bedroom rather than at the mall.
I also have never found short bows of RD design to be hard to shoot as the wives tales claim. :readit:
I've had a bunch of short bows, but currently I am trying to master the ASL. I hunted some places this fall with prickly ash and that multi floral crap and I for sure won't forget my clippers next time.
My all time favorite short bow was a 56" Shrew Classic Hunter-shoulda kept that one.
I do have a couple of 58" bows that will work if I go back to a shorter bow for a specific task. A Black Widow PFT and a Tall Tines.
In looking at the photo the PFT grip reminds of the CH a bit.
Yup, count me in as a short bow fan these days since all of my shooting is done from a seated position because of health issues. I totally agree that some short bows are better shooters for me than others and also agree that shooting while seated is much different than the same while standing. Think one is more solid than the other meaning while standing your body has to balance itself whereas while seated it can relax more, especially with a backrest, which I have to use at all times. My current bow is a 54" longbow and my 60" Thunderhorn TD is hanging on the rack getting jealous. :bigsmyl:
Roger, what are the specs on your Shrew Scout? My idle curiosity may get me into trouble....again. :biglaugh:
Jason
Quote from: STICKBENDER98 on November 20, 2025, 12:25:38 PMRoger, what are the specs on your Shrew Scout? My idle curiosity may get me into trouble....again. :biglaugh:
Jason
It pulls 50# at 28".....only a 50 inch bow. Very short. I like it quite a bit, but it is definitley not the bow for a guys who just hunts with "one bow". :biglaugh:
I really like short bows. A lot. And since my bows main purpose is for hunting, it just makes sense. That being said, if my short bows didn't shoot as accurately as my long bows, it wouldn't make any sense. But they do. My longest is a 64" Whip, and I compare the accuracy of all my other bows to it. The rest of my bows are between 52" and 58". I'm of average height at 5'11" with an average draw length of 28ΒΌ", so bows this short obviously won't work for everyone, but for me it's a no brainer. In hunting situations, if I can get the same job done with a shorter, more maneuverable bow, why on earth would I choose a longer one?
I have a longer draw, 29.5" so shorter bows don't sit well with me. 64" is my comfort zone with a few 62" and one or two 60" working for me. That said, I have recently acquired a 58" Slick Stick and LOVE it! How it doesn't stack is beyond me but it's very smooth, forgiving and fast! Made me a believer for sure!
I am committed to this set up, but there are times when the 58" bows would be handy.
Onski, it sounds like you haven't tried many bows at sixty inches. You're missing the whole design revelation. The late Ron KaClaur would debunk you in two seconds. I also debunk you. You have either shot and poorly designed bows at sixty inches, or you haven't tried enough bows, while the other.
I'm glad you admit you have found one.But there are many others that would fit.You also. Old wives' tales are just that, wives tales, don't believe all of them.
Quote from: MnFn on November 21, 2025, 10:37:34 AMI am committed to this set up, but there are times when the 58" bows would be handy.
That is a worthy setup! :notworthy:
Quote from: Roger Norris on November 20, 2025, 03:00:24 PMQuote from: STICKBENDER98 on November 20, 2025, 12:25:38 PMRoger, what are the specs on your Shrew Scout? My idle curiosity may get me into trouble....again. :biglaugh:
Jason
It pulls 50# at 28".....only a 50 inch bow. Very short. I like it quite a bit, but it is definitley not the bow for a guys who just hunts with "one bow". :biglaugh:
I remember Ron talking about his 52" Classic Hunter. He said its not a field archery bow, its not target bow and its probably not the bow you'll want to shoot all day. It IS a compact hunting bow for close quarters at hunting ranges!
Quote from: Roger Norris on November 09, 2025, 09:43:46 AMWhile I have killed a bunch of deer with what would be considered "short" bows.....like 56 and 58 inch Shrews, over the last few years I have drifted towards longer limbs.
My current favorite Shrew is actually 60", as is my Black Widow recurve. My Northern Mist Ramers are 62,64, 66 inches.
2 years ago I bought a super short Shrew Scout, and shot it enough, but didn't love it. To describe the experience, it wasn't comfortable to shoot for a long time. I was actually going to sell it, but decided to shoot it a bit one more time.
I took my Waldrop PacSeat to my backyard range, sat in the chair is if I were ground hunting, and holy smokes....I really shot it well.
So yesterday I knew I was going to ground hunt.My son was duck hunting on a lake nearby, and I was going to hunt the swamp adjacent. We have hunted this swamp plenty. And while there is lots of dry ground, it is the absolute thickest area we hunt. Horrible with multi floral rose and Russian olive.
I took my PacSeat and this little Scout, snuck in, and had a great morning. No deer cooperated, but I really did notice a difference in manipulating this tiny bow in the thick stuff, both while walking and sitting. My route OUT of the swamp was a path I had never taken (path as described by ONX, there was no path) and 50inches really made a difference.
So here is my thinking...I think....This tiny bow is NOT a choice for one bow does all. My 60 inch bows are kinda that sweetspot. But because it has the exact same grip as my 60 inch Shrew, I am able to shoot it well, and it REALLY works for tight spaces. I will be messing with this idea for the rest of the year.....the ground is so much more convenient than a tree.
Great post Roger.
I noticed in your picture that your strap on quiver is on the ground. I've thought about doing this as well as I don't like bow quivers on my bows anymore. I currently use an over the shoulder quiver but am looking to transport my arrows with more ease on the way to my setup. How do you like doing that?
Quote from: frassettor on November 25, 2025, 02:46:13 PMQuote from: Roger Norris on November 09, 2025, 09:43:46 AMWhile I have killed a bunch of deer with what would be considered "short" bows.....like 56 and 58 inch Shrews, over the last few years I have drifted towards longer limbs.
My current favorite Shrew is actually 60", as is my Black Widow recurve. My Northern Mist Ramers are 62,64, 66 inches.
2 years ago I bought a super short Shrew Scout, and shot it enough, but didn't love it. To describe the experience, it wasn't comfortable to shoot for a long time. I was actually going to sell it, but decided to shoot it a bit one more time.
I took my Waldrop PacSeat to my backyard range, sat in the chair is if I were ground hunting, and holy smokes....I really shot it well.
So yesterday I knew I was going to ground hunt.My son was duck hunting on a lake nearby, and I was going to hunt the swamp adjacent. We have hunted this swamp plenty. And while there is lots of dry ground, it is the absolute thickest area we hunt. Horrible with multi floral rose and Russian olive.
I took my PacSeat and this little Scout, snuck in, and had a great morning. No deer cooperated, but I really did notice a difference in manipulating this tiny bow in the thick stuff, both while walking and sitting. My route OUT of the swamp was a path I had never taken (path as described by ONX, there was no path) and 50inches really made a difference.
So here is my thinking...I think....This tiny bow is NOT a choice for one bow does all. My 60 inch bows are kinda that sweetspot. But because it has the exact same grip as my 60 inch Shrew, I am able to shoot it well, and it REALLY works for tight spaces. I will be messing with this idea for the rest of the year.....the ground is so much more convenient than a tree.
Great post Roger.
I noticed in your picture that your strap on quiver is on the ground. I've thought about doing this as well as I don't like bow quivers on my bows anymore. I currently use an over the shoulder quiver but am looking to transport my arrows with more ease on the way to my setup. How do you like doing that?
I like it quite a bit. I also use a GFA side quiver extensively. Lately, however, I have been "minimizing". There is nothing handier or quieter than a bow quiver when sneaking through thick stuff. But i do not like the idea of the bright blob of my fletching moving with the bow when I am drawing on an animal. So I take it off. When ground hunting, I usually also pull a second arrow out, and set it in a quiet spot in caase I need an extra arrow.
Quote from: Roger Norris on November 26, 2025, 02:57:11 PMQuote from: frassettor on November 25, 2025, 02:46:13 PMQuote from: Roger Norris on November 09, 2025, 09:43:46 AMWhile I have killed a bunch of deer with what would be considered "short" bows.....like 56 and 58 inch Shrews, over the last few years I have drifted towards longer limbs.
My current favorite Shrew is actually 60", as is my Black Widow recurve. My Northern Mist Ramers are 62,64, 66 inches.
2 years ago I bought a super short Shrew Scout, and shot it enough, but didn't love it. To describe the experience, it wasn't comfortable to shoot for a long time. I was actually going to sell it, but decided to shoot it a bit one more time.
I took my Waldrop PacSeat to my backyard range, sat in the chair is if I were ground hunting, and holy smokes....I really shot it well.
So yesterday I knew I was going to ground hunt.My son was duck hunting on a lake nearby, and I was going to hunt the swamp adjacent. We have hunted this swamp plenty. And while there is lots of dry ground, it is the absolute thickest area we hunt. Horrible with multi floral rose and Russian olive.
I took my PacSeat and this little Scout, snuck in, and had a great morning. No deer cooperated, but I really did notice a difference in manipulating this tiny bow in the thick stuff, both while walking and sitting. My route OUT of the swamp was a path I had never taken (path as described by ONX, there was no path) and 50inches really made a difference.
So here is my thinking...I think....This tiny bow is NOT a choice for one bow does all. My 60 inch bows are kinda that sweetspot. But because it has the exact same grip as my 60 inch Shrew, I am able to shoot it well, and it REALLY works for tight spaces. I will be messing with this idea for the rest of the year.....the ground is so much more convenient than a tree.
Great post Roger.
I noticed in your picture that your strap on quiver is on the ground. I've thought about doing this as well as I don't like bow quivers on my bows anymore. I currently use an over the shoulder quiver but am looking to transport my arrows with more ease on the way to my setup. How do you like doing that?
I like it quite a bit. I also use a GFA side quiver extensively. Lately, however, I have been "minimizing". There is nothing handier or quieter than a bow quiver when sneaking through thick stuff. But i do not like the idea of the bright blob of my fletching moving with the bow when I am drawing on an animal. So I take it off. When ground hunting, I usually also pull a second arrow out, and set it in a quiet spot in caase I need an extra arrow.
I had noticed when using a backpack, my shoulder quiver is troublesome because it stays on my side, usually I like to swing it to the back when going through brush. Have you used yours with a backpack on? Also, I was looking quite a while ago purchasing the GFA side quiver, but I couldn't find one. Do they happen to know if they have any laying around that they would sell or if they are still producing them?
Quote from: Terry Green on November 21, 2025, 11:01:10 AMOnski, it sounds like you haven't tried many bows at sixty inches. You're missing the whole design revelation. The late Ron KaClaur would debunk you in two seconds. I also debunk you. You have either shot and poorly designed bows at sixty inches, or you haven't tried enough bows, while the other.
I'm glad you admit you have found one.But there are many others that would fit.You also. Old wives' tales are just that, wives tales, don't believe all of them.
I admittedly do not keep up with bow designs. I'd like to hear more on the design revelation and some idea of what to look for. I'd love to shoot shorter bows than I'm currently shooting but I've always been told it was a bad idea and I've just stick with it.
Quote from: TaterHill Archer on November 28, 2025, 11:32:15 AMQuote from: Terry Green on November 21, 2025, 11:01:10 AMOnski, it sounds like you haven't tried many bows at sixty inches. You're missing the whole design revelation. The late Ron KaClaur would debunk you in two seconds. I also debunk you. You have either shot and poorly designed bows at sixty inches, or you haven't tried enough bows, while the other.
I'm glad you admit you have found one.But there are many others that would fit.You also. Old wives' tales are just that, wives tales, don't believe all of them.
I admittedly do not keep up with bow designs. I'd like to hear more on the design revelation and some idea of what to look for. I'd love to shoot shorter bows than I'm currently shooting but I've always been told it was a bad idea and I've just stick with it.
Don't let other people's opinions keep you from discovering the amazing innovations in bow design. If you're at all interested in shooting shorter bows, do yourself a favor and research bows like the Javaman Elkheart, Big Jim's Thunderchild, Toelke Pika, Shrew Classic Hunter, and the Centaur Longbow. All of these bows come in various lengths to accommodate longer than average draw lengths, while still qualifying as short bows. They are unequaled in hunting situations, and don't let anyone tell you that they aren't as accurate as longer bows ... it's simply not true.
I have spent the afternoon reading on reflex/deflex designs. I don't really know if my 13" VPA with longbow limbs is R/D or not. I am intrigued by the idea of going to shorter bows. I've been shooting a fixed crawl and it wasn't good on the 58" ILF setup, noise wise. but I could sacrifice a shorter point on distance to get it quieter. I guess I need to try one of these mows mentioned and see if I can shoot one. Which means, I'll probably get one and become addicted to it. :biglaugh:
Quote from: TaterHill Archer on November 28, 2025, 04:57:27 PMI have spent the afternoon reading on reflex/deflex designs. I don't really know if my 13" VPA with longbow limbs is R/D or not. I am intrigued by the idea of going to shorter bows. I've been shooting a fixed crawl and it wasn't good on the 58" ILF setup, noise wise. but I could sacrifice a shorter point on distance to get it quieter. I guess I need to try one of these mows mentioned and see if I can shoot one. Which means, I'll probably get one and become addicted to it. :biglaugh:
At the risk of sounding melodramatic, my choice in traditional bows changed irrevocably when I shot my first Javaman Elkheart. Prior to that I was shooting longbows from 64 to 68" long. Those are all gone now except for the 64" Toelke Whip, and replaced by bows from 52 to 58". I have seen the light.
As designs have improved, the short bow old wives tale becomes more and more just that. It's all in the design of the bow, riser to limb and how the limbs are pre stressed and how they bend when they are loading up. If your tips are coming back at you like crazy when you inch towards full draw, that steep finger pinch angle is going to rear it's ugly head.....something people have in the past complained about with short bows (finger pinch) Our bowyers who know how to build them have figured out how to make the shorter limbs bend in a way that keeps the string angle at full draw more like the string angle on the longer bows.
Eric, every thing you said makes sense. I have somewhat larger hands, described by my son as sausage-like fingers. I can honestly say finger pinch never has been a concern for me either.
I have owned two or three different Shrews, the best being a 56" Classic Hunter, but I have had a couple shorter also. No complaints about them.
As I stated above, I have gone down the ASL rabbit trail and am not likely to ever go back. I just plain enjoy it more. For me transitioning to short bows twenty or thirty years ago was easier than learning to shoot Hill style. It's supposed to be fun, so whatever a guy enjoys - go for it!
I was talking with Tim Cosgrove (who now owns Shrew) about this.He reminds me that for quite awhile, 54 inches was THE LENGTH for us at ShrewHaven. I have to dig around into my "bow inventory" :biglaugh: Apparantly Tim tells me that I have a 54 inch Osage that we dubbed the "Camp Bow" one year because we all had the same bow. It's funny that he know more ab9out my bows than I do :biglaugh:
I have jumped around on bow design, because it is fun. Oddly enough, I am heading back down the scale....these short bows are starting to appeal to me again.