Like many folks I'm sure, I get excited about broadheads. After all, aside from placing the shot appropriately, the broadhead makes it happen ..... and how well it does so can depend on many factors. It's been many years now I feel since the single bevel became really hot on the scene, with now tons of outfits producing them. I would like to know your true honest take on this subject .... especially if you have experience with taking game with BOTH single bevel and the good ole double bevel heads. Did you start with double and transition to single for the long haul? Did you start with single but then try a 3 or 4 blade and that's your poison now? Did you start with say a good ole Zwickey Delta that worked for you, but then tried a single bevel that also worked, but then went back to the Zwickey for some reason? Maybe a sharpening method as a factor?
Really curious to see just how much preference comes into play with this, or even sheer coincidence being the deciding factor. Example being, you started hunting with the stick bow just a few years ago and you went straight to single bevel and have taken game with them and because of that, you only use single bevels because they did the job and brought you good luck. Does a single bevel REALY outperform the same 2 blade in traditional double bevel? Many of the new single bevels are being made with thick steel too, compared to the same layout as an older double bevel thinner steel but just ground to a single bevel format. What's your take on this matter, all things considered and we are assuming the shot has hit it's mark (placement) :campfire:
:campfire:
I realize there is a lot going on in my first post or may even be confusing as to what I'm trying to get at. Put more simply I guess, with regard to performance on game animals, is single bevel really an advancement or step up when put in the vitals? All other things being equal ..... same animal, same size, distance, shooting conditions ..... just one head compared to the other with hole cut and blood trail .....
Never tried any of the single bevel heads. I started bow hunting with wood arrows, and old Bear Razor heads.
Even used them with my compound for a few years. When I got back into this "traditional" bowhunting thing, I used wood arrows and Zwickey Eskimos. Why? Because they fly EXACTLY like my 125gr field points.
I have always carried a Judo point arrow in my quiver for the last 20 years. A Judo point weighs 135grs and a few years ago I switched to 135gr 2 blade Zwickey Deltas and guess what??
They fly EXACTLY like my Judos.... :thumbsup:
Dead is dead ! I have used many broadheads over my 60 plus years of bowhunting and if they are sharp and hit in the vitals they pretty much all work. I think flight is more important that configuration, so it's important to shoot a broadhead that works for your set up .... ALWAYS shoot and practice with your broadheads before hunting with them.
I have killed critters with two blades, three blades, two blades with bleeders, single bevel, double bevel ... on and on. Some blades I stopped using because I'm sharpening challenged and single bevel was in that mix ! My best elk I shot with an old Bear razor head with bleeders, complete pass through at 25 yards. My only moose a small bull with a two blade zwicky delta at ten yards, complete pass through and i never found the arrow as it sailed off into a canyon. My only real broadhead disaster was a three blade cheap ass Satelite that plained out of my bow and hit the biggest elk i have ever shot at... right in the shoulder at ten yards. :scared: :scared: My lesson learned about shooting your broadheads BEFORE hunting.
Currently I'm shooting two blade 150 grn stingers with bleeders out of a Caribow LB @ 49# . My last critter killed was an antelope at 15 yards and was a complete pass through with my arrow going another 27 yards uphill.
Keep'm sharp and be sure they fly straight. So many choices and so little time :goldtooth:
Never tried a single bevel, though I've read a bit about them. I've shot zwickey delta 2 blades for probably 50yrs now. I've found no reason to change.
I'm also a broadhead junkie...I've 'played around' with so many heads and seriously I probably have between 200 to 300 broadheads of various styles and blade configurations. That said, I have never used or even own a single bevel head. I have a great friend who thinks there isn't a better head on the planet than the single bevel two blade design. He watches the Fairy fellow quite bit on you tube. He has had some success with them and likes the twisted holes they provide. That said, he struggles with getting them sharp.
I'm blessed to live in a state that has incredibly long seasons, higher deer limits than you can reach, and a pretty good deer density. When you combine that with 50 years of bowhunting, you have likely killed over 200 pigs and deer... plus whatever else you have hunted in your lifetime. I've never had strayed too far from the two blade Zwickey Eskimo during that time...and when I do, its usually with a Magnus Stinger or Bear Razorhead. Same broadhead design, just different manufacturers. The performance of these heads when RAZOR sharp far exceeds my expectations. There is no need for me to go the single bevel route.
I've used Zwickey Eskimo, Delta, and Single Bevel. Sometimes more than one type will be in my hunting quiver at the same time. I find they all work for me. Deer and turkey don't seem to notice the difference. I do find sharpening the single bevel a little more easy for me.
Am sure that there will be a lot of knowledge sharing with this post. In my opinion, a sharp broadhead, shot from a 55# bow through the vitals, will harvest any North American. This is my belief, and was stated I believe from Saxton Pope and either Hill/Bear. No matter what broadhead you choose, never compromise arrow flight, getting the arrow where you aim, with straight penetration is first. When I say this, I am not talking about field points, how it flies with the broadhead you choose, got to shoot them. Once I have the arrow with broadhead of choice flying perfect, where I shoot, next I get them sharp. There are great many theory and belief's, which work. For me, I get my broadheads sharp enough to slice through "decent" size rubber bands (closes thing in my mind to arteries, note below. To me the choice of Double/Single bevel broadhead, has more to do with what the animal does as the arrow is in flight (step, turn, jump), which can effect what is in the path. There are plenty others here who have harvested more animals than me with broadheads. I, have proven to myself, that more animals have dropped within sight with the above with either a wide (1 1/2") double bevel or single bevel, than any other factor beside flight/sharpness. I personally do believe in the tried and true 10/12 grains of arrow weight to poundage of bow used. Other words, the heaviest arrow with perfect flight to where I shoot is always better. The first time I heard about heavy arrows, was from Monty Browning talk about it, then read Dr. Ashby study, do I believe it, yep. Now, I proved it to myself with my own "test" and proved out, then that fall made huge difference in harvest. The one struggle I had was after shooting a medium arrow for long time, had the flight engrained in. So, I had to dedicate training myself for the flight arc (hence called archery). This is just my opinion, all that I do/use has to do with effectively and ethically harvesting the animal quickly, all the above doesn't matter without two foremost factors- 1. perfect flight, 2. Ethics, taking a shot not confident in, nothing will fix that but time invested on range/stumping.
Note: Here is huge money maker idea for someone. In todays age, why is it that there is not a device/test that can mimic the pushing sharpness of a broadhead on real vitals? Surely, Veterinarians, Doctors, engineers can create a substance or calculate a medium for cutting real arteries/veins on animals.
Double bevels, from 1 1/8" up to 2" wide have worked excellent for me on numerous critters.
Three blades have performed excellent...hunting with 1 ¼" VPA this season
Single bevels have performed yet, consistently leave me poor blood trails....
If you make a shoulder hit, you will be in trouble with any of the BH's unless your arrow has a single bevel BH and your arrow wt is in the six hundred fifty grain range or above...took four deer last season w/a six hundred fifty five gn arrow last season...all but one, were weak blood trails yet, all deer were recovered... have used a similar set up during two other previous seasons with very similar results...
Have observed a single bevel as only a disadvantage when not shooting a 650 gn range arrow or above and not encountering heavy bone... a single bevel BH is not my choice for the game I pursue.
I've shot through the flat part of the shoulder blade on deer with a 56-57# recurve using double bevels and single bevels with 565-600gr arrow. Broke the offside humerus in half on a huge bodied buck with a 200gr cutthroat. I was on the single bevel bandwagon for a while because of Ashby and the hype around them.
I quit using them because of the lack of blood. They do penetrate well, but that really hasn't been an issue for me. Probably stick with 3 blade (or at least wider two blade) double bevels from here on out.
Quote from: elkken on August 22, 2025, 11:46:31 PMDead is dead ! I have used many broadheads over my 60 plus years of bowhunting and if they are sharp and hit in the vitals they pretty much all work. I think flight is more important that configuration, so it's important to shoot a broadhead that works for your set up .... ALWAYS shoot and practice with your broadheads before hunting with them.
I have killed critters with two blades, three blades, two blades with bleeders, single bevel, double bevel ... on and on. Some blades I stopped using because I'm sharpening challenged and single bevel was in that mix ! My best elk I shot with an old Bear razor head with bleeders, complete pass through at 25 yards. My only moose a small bull with a two blade zwicky delta at ten yards, complete pass through and i never found the arrow as it sailed off into a canyon. My only real broadhead disaster was a three blade cheap ass Satelite that plained out of my bow and hit the biggest elk i have ever shot at... right in the shoulder at ten yards. :scared: :scared: My lesson learned about shooting your broadheads BEFORE hunting.
Currently I'm shooting two blade 150 grn stingers with bleeders out of a Caribow LB @ 49# . My last critter killed was an antelope at 15 yards and was a complete pass through with my arrow going another 27 yards uphill.
Keep'm sharp and be sure they fly straight. So many choices and so little time
:archer2:
I have shot critters with single bevel, double bevel and 3 blade. I'll leave the 3 blade outa this (they are just dandy, 3 blade woodsman and VPA, a favorite) and focus on the 2 blades ..... Delta, Ace and Grizzly single bevel. Yes, dead is dead, once you get there. All 3 of these heads worked just fine. I shot 2 hogs in FL on a hunt with some friends, with the Grizzlys. Pass throughs both. Accurate heads. But blood trails nothing extra to speak of. Sharpening was kind of a pain to be honest, and I'm usually decent at putting an edge on something. Ended up using the KME sharpening system to get them where I wanted them. After those 2 hogs, I never took them back into the woods. Never really even thought about them to be honest, they are dust collecting in a box somewhere.
Ace standard head, nothing crazy about the head at a glance but it worked fantastic ..... good blood trails, very accurate and you can get them super sharp without any special contraptions ..... just a file and a smidge of patience. Delta, same deal. I want to say the ACE was a bit easier to sharpen than the Delta (setting the bevel angle on the tri lam tip), but the delta has a wider cut which I feel is better. I don't see why I would ever look toward a single bevel head again, as I don't think it has anything to offer above and beyond the standard double bevels I have used.
Like many here, I shot Zwikee Eskimo's for neatly 40 years. Also tried a few of the lesser known heads experminting. I bought some Cut Throut single bevel to try in Africa. I shot them for a couple months before the trip and was impressed with them. I also tossed in my old Zwikee heads, just in case. While in Africa (Namibia) I shot 6 animals with the Cut Throat's and everyone was a complete pass through and excellent blood trails. Would the Zwikee done as well? I'm sure it would, but it was an excellent chance to try out the single broadheads. I did take a shot at a guinee bird, and hit a solid rock with the Cut Throat, upon inspection, there was no damage, not even a nick on the tip. In that situation, I know there would have been so damage and possiblity a bent tip on the Zwikee.
As mentioned, both heads have performed well for me. If I had to make a choice, I might lean towards the single bevel Cutthroat for performance. The other factor, being cost - I would stick with the Zwikee.
I switched to single bevel permanently. My experience might be helpful or might be irrelevant considering my draw weight and arrow.
I hunt with a 70# hybrid longbow and my arrows are about 620gr.
The first animal I took was a mature doe. I shot through both shoulders,breaking the near should in half. The second animal was a large 9point buck. Perfect shot double lung and heart.... however, the deer did not react. He walked a few paces and dropped, kicked for a second. When I examined vitals I could not believe the damage. It looked like they had been slashed with a large knife, even the exit wound was abnormal for the size of the head. Additionally I was a chef for most of my adult life and no patience for a dull blade, I find the single bevel sharpens to a much better edge.
Quote from: chefrvitale on August 25, 2025, 11:05:47 PMI switched to single bevel permanently. My experience might be helpful or might be irrelevant considering my draw weight and arrow.
I hunt with a 70# hybrid longbow and my arrows are about 620gr.
The first animal I took was a mature doe. I shot through both shoulders,breaking the near should in half. The second animal was a large 9point buck. Perfect shot double lung and heart.... however, the deer did not react. He walked a few paces and dropped, kicked for a second. When I examined vitals I could not believe the damage. It looked like they had been slashed with a large knife, even the exit wound was abnormal for the size of the head. Additionally I was a chef for most of my adult life and no patience for a dull blade, I find the single bevel sharpens to a much better edge.
This is great info and perspective , Thanks!!! :archer2:
As I said before, I have never used a single bevel head.
But,from a sharpening standpoint, I would think that a single bevel head would be much easier to sharpen??
There have been many single bevel edged tools throughout history. An adz,a scye, a sickle, and lawn mower blades, to name a few...
Basically, sharpen the edge, knock the burr off, and your good to go!!? :dunno:
Cannot say,old regular Zwickey Delta has worked good for me for lots of years
Single bevels are great. Easy to keep sharp. I prefer 3 to 1 shape. Not sure how much it matters but I always match bevel to fletch... left wing=left bevel.
When shot placement is not perfect, the wider two-blade or three-blade broadheads have resulted in a higher percentage of filled tags in my experience with deer sized animals or smaller.
Whatever gives YOU confidence.
Here is my opinion based on a pretty good pile of traditional kills:
Single bevel - Excellent penetration. Easy to sharpen with a file. Terrible blood trails.
3 Blade - Good enough penetration. Great blood trails. Near impossible to get sharp enough to suit me.
Double bevel - Great penetration but sensitive to marginal tuning. Good Bloodtrail. Very easy to make scary sharp with just a file.
Sharpening, penetration, and DURABILITY are everything to me. Durability is based on the manufacturer, do your homework.....
1. Arrow tune/set up
2. Broadhead SHARP
3. Broadhead style
I feel like we're all beating around this bush lol.
Zwickey Delta 4 Blades since the 80s
I have also killed the random animal here and there with Sponsors heads from time to time. WIDE 2 blades and 3 blades.
My 2000 pound plus bison was killed with a Wensel Woodsman.
Never killed anything with a single bevel. See no need to try.
I find single bevel very easy to sharpen but not impressed by their blood trail. For wild boar my to go are the Simmons Tree Sharks.
Never tried the single bevel. I've always used either Zwickey Eskimo or deltas. They always shoot great. No need to fix it if it's not broken.
I never bought into it. Doubles for me for so many animals I had no reason to change. Most are too narrow for me.
All this broadhead talk got me thinking of the unbelievable broadhead collection at Western Recreation in Poncha Springs Colorado. This is 50 or so years of broadhead design in these cases. Goes to show there are really few new ideas anymore, but I don't recall any single bevels. It is a relatively new concept.
These are all in the archery range, not the showroom.
More pics
An aside, Id like to try a 200 grain Annihalator Katana.
Cool pics. Thats a pretty extensive collection.
All things being equal I think it's fair to say single bevels penetrate deeper and have a larger potential to breech through heavy bone on heavy game. Ashby has already covered that.
I shoot primarily deer, feral pigs, and black bear in the Midwest. All of these animals are medium sized game animals without heavy cover, heavy bone, or thick skin. I consistently get complete pass throughs on them all as the norm. I typically shoot Grizzly single bevels for deer and some 3-blade single bevels (I forget the brand...maybe VPA?) on bear and pig so the blades can cut more and bleed more for tracking. That said the only reason I chose single bevels for these uses is because it was an option with the head I was already buying anyway. I wouldn't hesitate to put a sharp double bevel though the boiler room on ANY of these species whatsoever.
In my experience I really just want the following and I feel very, very comfortable amongst almost all N American game:
1) excellent flight and a balanced head that spins true
2) SHARP points and good shot placement
3) heavy arrow build with some weight up front
4) arrow build that doesn't fail (many of the super light broadheads curl up if they graze bones)
A good sharp head through the vitals is all you need. I have had success with 3 blade (vpa) and single blade heads. I do tend to lean towards wide single bevel heads. A lot of people have a difficult time getting them sharp though. Light strokes until you get a burr. Once you have a burr established knick it down and they are usually ready to hunt.
So here is a question for the group....what would the PERFECT 2 blade double bevel head look like?
Also....are fixed bleeders like the Zwickey has a positive or negative?
Quote from: Roger Norris on November 11, 2025, 08:10:14 AMSo here is a question for the group....what would the PERFECT 2 blade double bevel head look like?
Also....are fixed bleeders like the Zwickey has a positive or negative?
The old/original German Kinetics Silver Flame - Crazy wicked sharp, and left massive blood trails. Come to think of it, I need to scrounge some of them out of my broadhead bin and give them another go. I too got on the single bevel bandwagon and have been using 150 grn Cutthroats the past few years. They are nice heads, but the Silver Flames I think are more lethal.
Zwickey yes, for 30 years, what's the problem?
In my experience the single bevel heads I use retain their edge longer and remain shaving sharp edge throughout the season.
I found that shot placement is a lot more critical with a single bevel, most of them are small and as said do not leave a blood trail sometimes not at all.
I bought into the hype years ago and found out the hard way that single bevels were not for me. Apparently I'm not a good enough shot for them. I also found that they don't seem to penetrate bone any better than a double bevel.
I switched back to, and should have never switched from Snuffers. Idk how much more penetration a person needs when a snuffer is stuck in the ground after going through a deer. They leave huge blood trails and easy enough to sharpen with a file and stone. Large broadheads are definitely more forgiving on marginal shots. A little harder to tune, but in that case I just use bigger feathers. It is truly sad that snuffers are so hard to find, I wish I'd bought a lifetime supply when they were still being produced.
RogerI've had great success since the eighties.With the zwickey delta fixed bleeder deltas.
I passed through just about everything unless I hit the off.Shoulder or leg bone.
My dear recovery rate averages under thirty yards.Yet with pigs, it averages under forty. Those darn pigs are tough. :readit:
Buckeye, I have firsthand knowledge that someone is going to be making a snuffer type head very soon.
I'm a three blade fan with the bows I have and 600-700 grain arrows. Two blade has worked when I was shooting lighter weight arrows. Have some Abowyer heads but have not hunted them. Should do well with my bows and heavy arrows.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Quote from: Terry Green on November 12, 2025, 10:05:15 PMBuckeye, I have firsthand knowledge that someone is going to be making a snuffer type head very soon.
If that didn't get some of us Old guys excited. I hope it happens soon.
There is no "hype" with single bevel broadheads. Most negative comments come from arm chair experts who have never hunted with them. Easier to sharpen than most double bevels IMO. Good penetration. Good blood trails. I've killed plenty of critters with both double and single bevel heads.
Quote from: JohnV on November 14, 2025, 06:27:53 PMThere is no "hype" with single bevel broadheads. Most negative comments come from arm chair experts who have never hunted with them. Easier to sharpen than most double bevels IMO. Good penetration. Good blood trails. I've killed plenty of critters with both double and single bevel heads.
There is certainly hype surrounding them when guys say they leave as much blood on the ground as other broadheads. I think the size is the important factor that needs to be considered. But to compare them to a snuffer a delta a Simmons and say they leave just as good of blood trails is a complete false narrative.
I've seen with my own 2 eyes deer perfectly hit with single bevels through both lungs 2 holes that did not leave a blood trail other than specs. They bled more from their mouth than the 2 holes.
I hunt thick travel corridors,I need blood on the ground to find the deer I shoot. I'm not an Indian tracker, if i was I'd be comparable to the one in Joe Dirt selling fireworks. Single bevels did not do that for me.
I know some companies are producing single bevel heads that are fairly wide now, but why not just shoot deltas that are half the cost?
Just my 2 cents.
No issue with the bloodtrails i have followed using Abowyer Wapiti single bevels. Shoot what you want but dont try to tell me the single bevel bloodtrails that i have followed are non-existent!
Quote from: JohnV on November 15, 2025, 05:24:11 PMNo issue with the bloodtrails i have followed using Abowyer Wapiti single bevels. Shoot what you want but dont try to tell me the single bevel bloodtrails that i have followed are non-existent!
John, how wide are those wapiti heads?
Obviously, shoot what works for you.
My own father, my biggest hero to this day, shoots single bevels from his compound and I can't say I agree with it.
I've found that large diameter heads achieves better results, and most single bevel are not large diameter. I think the bevel thing is irrelevant and once again overhyped.
I'm sure experiences vary, but I wouldn't consider myself an arm chair expert, or any expert for that matter. Just giving my opinion to help others avoid the woes I've experienced first hand.
The Wapiti broadhead is 1 1/4" inches wide which is better than most single bevel broadheads I've seen. I had a pack of them about 10 years ago and found they were hard steel and took a lot of work to sharpen but once sharp they stayed that way. Since then I've gone back to my standard double bevel Zwickey heads. I do believe the width of a broadhead can really affect blood trails. I've always been partial to a wide 2 blade head. I get better trails than my friends who prefer the smaller 3 blade like woodsman or VPA
This subject has come up here a bazillion times. Here is THE answer...
If you have to have a single bevel to kill an animal, you have other major serious problems.
Quote from: JohnV on November 15, 2025, 05:24:11 PMNo issue with the bloodtrails i have followed using Abowyer Wapiti single bevels. Shoot what you want but dont try to tell me the single bevel bloodtrails that i have followed are non-existent!
"Your milieage may vary" is a thing.....I am not an expert in anything, but I have killed 12 (I think) whitetails with single bevel heads....going back to the Grizzlies, Tuff Heads, and ABowyer heads. The only heads that had quality issues in my experience were the Tuff Heads. I had more than one of them delmainate in targets and game.
I would say ABowyer heads are my favorite. I like the heads, I like the family that owns the company.
The "Hype" comes from the amazingly in depth Ashby reports. We all learned a TON about arrow and broadhead construction, especially on heavy game. And anyone who says that a 3:1 ration single bevel doesn't penetrate BEAUTIFULLY is certainly an armchair expert.
But based on MY 12 BLOODTRAILS with single bevel heads....the one flaw they have is the blood letting.
Edit - I just ordered some Wapati's. I will give an honest opinion on them after I kill a doe or 2 this winter.
After doing this for 60 years now I've shot so many styles I can't even remember them all. I even killed a deer with one of those goofy apple core heads from back in the day. Now, I shoot a simple to sharpen two blade Ace. They fly great and they work. Don't need anything to do more.
:deadhorse: use what you like and report back if you find a head that makes something more dead.
I haven't seen a difference in blood trails with single bevels but we are only talking a hanful of single bevel kills.For me,neither is more difficult to sharpen.All the single bevel kills were complete pass throughs with short recoveries.Other contributing factors,meticulous tuning,heavy arrows and improved sharpening.One wound track that I paid attention to,had typical "S" shaped entry and exit holes.Where the arrow passed through soft,lung and liver tissue,the wound was a clear,measured,2" wide.This,from a 1 3/16" wide,Grizzly head.I have never witnessed that with 2 blade,double bevels.I only hit heavy bone once and that one hit the heavy end of the humerous on a running antelope.The bone was destroyed,with full penetration and recovery was 40 yds,after a hard run. The wound looked like it was hit by a high velocity,expanding bullet.I had never seen that much damage from and arrow.A lot of that had to been caused by a piece of the arrow remain in in the chest.Both shoulders were involved but the only heavy bone hit was the entrance side humerus.Bows used on my single bevel kills were 50-53 lbs,arrow weights app. 14 grs per pound of draw weight.
There are quite a few single bevel broadheads out there that are wider than 1 1/8". I bought a pack of Cutthroat single bevels that are 1 1/2" but have yet to shoot anything. I also have a pack of Abowyer Bonehead single bevels that are 1 1/2" wide. And just for reference, Bear Razorheads and Zwickey Eskimos are 1 1/8" wide.
Again, I've been shooting Zwickey four blades since the eighties. If you want to talk about blood trails, why don't you run some hunts for twenty years?And find out for yourself. I don't trail two blade animals anymore in Texas anymore. I gave that up years ago, I'm not getting stuck all to hell in back for somebody's choice in broadheads that most often leads to a dead end. There is no way that a one inch two blade leaves more of a blood trail than a four blade Zwickey shot in the same place.
Would you rather get shot with a 22 or a 30.06? If you can't get through a deer with a four blade, you got serious equipment issues. I've been blowing through deer for forty years now with four blades. Not to mention the hogs and other animals too.Many to mention.
Introducing Buffy with the Wensel Woodsman and Blockhead with the Zwicky Delta foreblade...
This was quite awhile ago now....but several years ago Ron LaClair and I were sitting in camp, talking about bloodtrails and broadheads. It's worth noting that Ron could sharpen ANYTHING. He could turn a butter knife into a straight razor pretty quickly.
Anyway, we had just finished up a crummy tracking job. We found the deer but it was a struggle. I had shot it with a Grizzly single bevel, and the blood trail just wasn't what we expected. Ron threw out the opinion that MAYBE the S shaped holes had something to do with sealing up the blood letting. :dunno: I dont know....anything is possible.
Quote from: huckbuck on October 15, 2025, 09:17:06 AMWhen shot placement is not perfect, the wider two-blade or three-blade broadheads have resulted in a higher percentage of filled tags in my experience with deer sized animals or smaller.
Yes, sir.We did a survey years ago and ninety percent of the times people reported animals moving during the shot.They moved forward not rearward. Therefore, a multi blade head is much much better than a single blade ever would be in that scenario.
I have to agree that the narrow single-bevel broadheads leave a disappointing blood trail. I tried them for a while, and I have gone back to Woodsman heads for most of my hunting. That being said, the main stated advantage of the narrow single-bevel was penetration and bone-breaking ability with 650-grain or heavier arrows. For most bowhunting in the U.S., the blood trail and fast, heavy blood loss in general (including internal blood loss) are more important than the ability to break the humerus bone on the far side of whatever we are hunting, or the ability to bury the arrow into the dirt after pass through.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Your results may vary.
Quote from: smokin joe on November 22, 2025, 09:25:17 AMI have to agree that the narrow single-bevel broadheads leave a disappointing blood trail. I tried them for a while, and I have gone back to Woodsman heads for most of my hunting. That being said, the main stated advantage of the narrow single-bevel was penetration and bone-breaking ability with 650-grain or heavier arrows. For most bowhunting in the U.S., the blood trail and fast, heavy blood loss in general (including internal blood loss) are more important than the ability to break the humerus bone on the far side of whatever we are hunting, or the ability to bury the arrow into the dirt after pass through.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Your results may vary.
Yep....Ashby was concerned with heavy boned African game....not whitetails.
Yes, roger, you're correct to appoint.It was for african game, not north american game, not just by tales.But any. People salivated , passed out and had seizures over this single bevel baloney. Give me a break.I've been killing deer and bears and hogs, and god knows what else with a foreblade.Even an african game.Yeah, with four blades, four blades, four blades get over it.People you're wrong.
Quote from: Terry Green on October 16, 2025, 02:00:18 PMZwickey Delta 4 Blades since the 80s
I have also killed the random animal here and there with Sponsors heads from time to time. WIDE 2 blades and 3 blades.
My 2000 pound plus bison was killed with a Wensel Woodsman.
Never killed anything with a single bevel. See no need to try.
I gotta echo Terry's post here, only I did try and kill hogs with a single bevel head on one of my Texas hog hunts... I got complete pass thoughs on both of them, but no blood trail to speak of. I'm quite certain I killed two hogs I never found. Once I went back to a 3 blade, the difference was huge. Much better blood trail. I have killed a lot of critters with a 3 blade woodsman broadhead, but grizzly makes a damn nice 3 blade 3:1 shape too that is outstanding. You guys can have your two blade broad heads. I can't see single bevel or double bevel making a lot of difference to me.
3 blades = more blood on the ground.... Period.
I remember when Dr. Ashby's research was new to me and was being discussed quite frequently here and on other boards. It dominated discussions on which broadhead to use. Rt or Lt bevel and matching fletching to the bevel of the head, etc.... I bought into some of the hype and got some grizzly heads. I think they are great heads and will do the job well if placed in the right spot (same as most any other head). But I want to discuss some ideas in research as they apply to this discussion.
Almost all studies, that are worth any value, will have a statement about its findings along the lines of "within the limitations of this study...". Its a nod to the fact that all studies have some limitation or limitations. Science is rarely settled because of these limitations. There is almost always a variable that is left out or cannot be included. Sometimes the variable is minor and sometimes it is major.
In research studies that are worth quoting, you must have a control. In these studies, Dr. Ashby used different heads as pseudo controls. I'm not sure he ever established that one type of head was the "gold standard" and was therefore the control head. All research would be conducted as a comparison to the control. He compared several heads without really establishing what the best "accepted" head was. And one reason for that is that there is no real gold standard. Its a very subjective area.
The second issue was bias. He admitted this in some of his writing. Good research starts with a null hypothesis. In other words, the research should start with the idea that the item, procedure, etc... is no better or not more effective than the accepted gold standard you are comparing it to. You shouldn't start any research project with the idea that the "new" item/procedure is better. It adds bias.
Third, and maybe more importantly to me, the biggest limitation is the use of a carcass vs a live animal. Now, I understand that a study on live animals would never get approved but any reference to lethality is merely an assumption in a study that can't show it. You can infer some things from these studies but there is no real data to suggest a difference. In order to do this, you would have to take live animals and use a broadhead of each design and shoot it into a live animal of the same species and almost exact proportions from the same bow from the same distance from the same shooter in the same altitude, barometric pressure, etc... (you see where I'm going with this). Until you do, you cannot say one is more lethal than the other.
These studies being carcass studies, you have to make assumptions from the data on lethality. Same thing goes for lethality studies of common handgun calibers. Some say, .45, some say .40, others are good with 9mm and some say .380 won't work. But there are studies that will show a .22 is enough for self defense. Surveys of some surgeons say they can't tell the difference between calibers on the operating table.
While we can draw the conclusion that a single bevel head is better at bone breaking than other types of heads on a carcass, we cannot draw that same conclusion about lethality because it wasn't measured. You cannot measure lethality on a carcass. You can make assumptions and you can design further studies from it but its not a cause and effect relationship without all the data. What we are left with is empirical data or data based on our own experiences and observations.
We hear all the time that light bows aren't enough. Double bevel two blade heads aren't enough, etc.... Truth is, empirical data tells me they both work. I've seen complete pass throughs with a 35-40 lb bow using two blade double bevel heads with good blood trails. Just as we have all seen it with multiblade heads. I have also seen poor penetration with the same setup. I've watched videos of compound shooters shooting a well set up and tuned bow get minimal penetration that was lethal sometimes and sometimes not.
So, in sum, what we know empirically is sharp heads shot accurately into the vital areas of a game animal can be lethal. I think we can empirically say a passthrough shot is better for tracking but not necessarily more lethal. I think we can say multiblade heads give us a different wound channel. We can say these things based on our experience or observations. There is no doubt, from some of the photos we've seen on here of the exit wounds made by simmons heads, they can be devastating. But those are not all the exit wounds that exist. Same for 3 and 4 blade heads. I've hunted with Terry and have no doubt those Zwickeys are lethal. Its hard to argue their effectiveness when shot by a competent bowman into the vital section of an animal. So, what I'm saying is, you do you and I'll do me. In my world, I'm ok with two blade double bevel heads like the Simmons Sharks, Zwickeys, STOS, and 3 blades like the woodsman, VPA, and 4 blades like the Zwickey, Phathead, etc..., or two blade single bevel heads. Width is another variable that must be evaluated, but that's another post. Get them sharp, shoot well, and eat up.
P.S. I should say that I'm with Terry on this. If it isn't already obvious, I'm not buying the hype on narrow, single bevel heads. I think they are effective but I don't think they are more effective than the other heads I can shoot.
For me it's simple, single bevel for lawnmower and bushhog blades, double bevel for knives and broadheads.
I was at a hunting camp in south Texas, the first weekend of the hunt there was a lot of hunters in camp , they were all shooting narrow single bevels as what the guide recommended . The first morning 8 javelina and a couple of hogs were shot one javelina was found and they discovered it after they had given up and were returning to the truck. Over the week they had about a 20% recovery . Heavy brush and no blood trails . My son and I shot 4 javelina and recovered all 4 we were shooting 125 gr. Snuffers. The one javelina that was found the first day was shot by the man camped next to us when I looked at the javi the hole from the arrow was such a small slit I don't think you could have hardly pushed a nickel though.
Comparing 3 and 4 blade blood trails to a two blade single bevel is hardly an apples to apples comparison. A valid comparison would be comparing a Bear Razorhead without insert or a Zwickey Eskimo to a single bevel of the same width. The fact that so many are not getting decent blood trails tells me it is due to poor shot placement, a less than shaving sharp broadhead, or more likely a combination of both. Both single and double broadheads will kill and give good blood trails when you hit vitals and the broadhead is razor sharp.
.
In case it hasn't been said.....I don't think it is the single bevel that is the flaw. It's the 3:1 ratio
Quote from: Roger Norris on November 24, 2025, 05:01:24 PMIn case it hasn't been said.....I don't think it is the single bevel that is the flaw. It's the 3:1 ratio
Tell me more.
Quote from: TaterHill Archer on November 24, 2025, 08:59:31 PMQuote from: Roger Norris on November 24, 2025, 05:01:24 PMIn case it hasn't been said.....I don't think it is the single bevel that is the flaw. It's the 3:1 ratio
Tell me more.
Long and narrow, creating a small hole.
I can't imagine how single bevel vs double could change the cut. I have killed LOTS of deer with 2 blade heads. But the ones that made great blood trails were WIDE....like the old Magnus heads. We used to call them "Flying Hatchets". And the Ace 200 grain head....it is 1 7/16 wide. I have a picture somewhere that LaClair took of the hole they made in a rib cage. Huge.
I think it was Howard Hill that started the 3:1 ratio concept. It certainly works for penetration, but the holes are too small.
Usually I am a Zwickey Delta user. With some kills using a long narrow Grizzly single bevel. I never noticed a difference in blood trails between the two. Or penetration. Both go completely through. I used the Deltas because common sense would tell you it's wider, more blood. I have had weak and great blood trails with both.
I shot a buck using the wide Tree Sharks this year. I had always wanted to try them. A single experience is not a scientific test, but I was really impressed with the blood trail and silent, easy penetration. Except for a spine hit or two, this was the shortest, fastest blood trail I ever had. It fell over in 25 yards and about 2 seconds. The buck was really played out and beat up from fighting when I shot it, but still. I will be "testing" Tree Sharks from now on! Matter of fact, I need to put them on my Christmas list right now.
I did have a VPA 3 blade in the quiver for windy days. The Treee Shark is vary wide.
Also, I dropped poundage this year from 60 to 51. But that thing went through effortlessly. I have used a compound at times on trips and I notice there is a benefit to a friction free slice when it comes to how far a deer runs. The smack of expandables makes them run. I shake my head at those tv shows where the buck runs wide open, out of sight across a huge cornfield. I bet most of us never have deer fun that far with a good hit.
Tedd