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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Kirkll on June 14, 2024, 03:42:51 PM
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I’ve been searching a long time for more high grade carbonized vertical grain bamboo, and I finally hit the jackpot! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
This flooring material is just under 3/4” thick and has very thin laminations compared to most everything I have ever purchased. I’m considering buying some volume of this material to get a better price, and be able to supply other bowyers that do not want to buy the stuff by the case and pay the shipping cost.
This is the best I’ve seen in years…. Please let me know if you are interested in some of this asap. And what quantity. I can sell it in boards , or rip it into into strips.
Check this out…. Kirk
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So you think it will be better performing or what?
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So you think it will be better performing or what?
Absolutely! Same weight, higher deflection rate with the thinner lams, with additional torsional stability. It’s a win win upgrade. I’m jazzed about it. This stuff is getting hard to find. There are only a few manufacturers that build the stuff any more, and the flooring is getting thinner all the time, and they mill half of it with that “click it” style instead of T&G,and ya waste material milling it.
I’m going to load up myself and quit sweating trying to find good stuff to build my limbs from…. All bamboo is not created equally and there are huge differences from one batch to the next. Kirk
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Kirk, I would be interested in getting some of the precut strips from ya, probably not a huge quantity though.
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Well i've got my first batch of this stuff almost milled into .120 thick X 1.75". I'm seriously happy with the quality, and havent found a single flaw in any of the laminations.
I'm going to sell this stuff for $250 per 100 pc lots, or $60 per 20 piece bundles if i get enough orders. If there isn't enough interest, i'm not going to buy a larger quantity and you guys are going to miss out on some quality material. Kirk
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Kirk have you used any of the planks from Rosewood or Big Jim's. Just by looking at the pics I can't see a lot of difference.
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I have no idea where they get their bamboo, or the manufactures name Mike. But here is the difference between the material that you commonly find out there, besides being high grade carbonized moso bamboo... look at the laminations closely....
This is the best i've ever seen for action bamboo, and i've handled a lot of it over the years. i used to do flooring, and replaced a lot of low grade bamboo floors with higher grade stuff. So i've done my research.
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Im interested Kirk. Can you give me the dimensions and weight of a single lam?
I bought some flooring a while back that was carbonized, but it was the woven bamboo. Super strong but heavy IMO
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Im interested Kirk. Can you give me the dimensions and weight of a single lam?
I bought some flooring a while back that was carbonized, but it was the woven bamboo. Super strong but heavy IMO
Yup…. I found the same to be true for the Fossilized bamboo I bought. Super strong, good deflection, and higher compression properties. I’m sure that has something to do with the way it’s impregnated with epoxy resin as the press it together. I have built quite a few bows using it, but had to keep the lams thinner to mitigate the mass weight.
I could try weighing two separate lams on my arrow scale and see what the difference is……. it’s noticeably lighter weight. Kirk
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My mistake. The stuff i bought was Fossilized as you mention, not Carbonized.
Made a decent shooting bow and seemed to be quiet. Just heavier mass weight than it needs to be for the application
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Kirk first of all I am not knocking your productI am not there to see it and have no idea where you got it. I just was on the phone with Rosewood Shop inquiring about their actonboo. They told me that they took over the imports from Northwest bamboo a well known company by bowyers. So it is Moso I bought from them years ago.
The only thing I am saying is we don't need to jump thru hoops trying to find good bamboo when it is already on the market. Even available to you also.
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Hey Stic... All i'm doing is offering to share an exceptional high grade product that i found locally with bowyers that appreciate it. if you don't, it's your loss....
I'm going to run over to the distributor and pick up a few more cases of this to have on hand. i have a feeling once a few guys use this stuff, they will want more.
Building high quality limbs for these bows is all about splitting hairs, and if using high quality products can give you an edge, it would be silly to pass it up. I'm not making any money on this either. Just covering my cost and sharing what i've found to be an excellent product with others. No hoops to jump through at all... Kirk
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Not a problem Kirk that was my 2 cents
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Gotta say Rosewood bamboo is very good quality and I will continue to use it! But it is also sensible to be on the lookout for materials that preform better …
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Well I picked up 3 more cases today so I have something to work with now.
I can do custom tapers out of this material for those of you who don’t grind their own lams, or even build taper sleds from it too. I think this stuff would hold up well as a sled.
Kirk
Btw…. Stic…….You can have your two cents back. It wasn’t asked for, or appreciated.
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: : I am sorry Kirk if my 2 cents offended you
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Action boo was something John at Old master crafters came up with , it was junk the lams were so fine that as soon as you put pressure on your air hose it would split some lams split just being in a dry shop. It was a failure .
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My mistake. The stuff i bought was Fossilized as you mention, not Carbonized.
Made a decent shooting bow and seemed to be quiet. Just heavier mass weight than it needs to be for the application
I've already given you these numbers by phone, but for the sake of sharing info, this new stuff weighs 1104 grains for a 35 7/8" 1.75x .090 par lam, the same exact lam using the fossilized material is 1526 grains.
The difference in the deflection strength is 5/8" on the fossilized, and 1" on the carbonized material. So the fossilized stuff is considerably stronger..... But If you compare 5/8 vs 8/8 in deflection & 1104 vs 1526 in weight you are looking at pretty close to the same strength per weight ratio, but .....the heavier material is much thinner now to get the same strength, and your stack height lower.... So i wouldn't write this heavier mass weight material off at all.
There are other properties to consider using the Fossilized material to take into account too. This material doesn't take a set like carbonized bamboo does. It has a much higher janka rating, and much higher compression qualities. It also gives a lighter draw weight recurve more torsional stability too. I've built a quite a few bows now using the fossilized material and its held up well. but i believe it does better in lighter draw weight recurves than heavier draw weights for performance vs carbonized bamboo.
The deflection tests is .090 thick material at 10" using a 3 ounce weight.
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Food for thought..... Kirk
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Action boo was something John at Old master crafters came up with , it was junk the lams were so fine that as soon as you put pressure on your air hose it would split some lams split just being in a dry shop. It was a failure .
If you are referring to using this on board bows without glass or carbon backing with inadequate pressure strips, i could see this stuff not holding up to serious air hose pressure....
But .... You are way off base saying action boo is junk. This stuff has proven to be very hard to beat used in composite bows of many designs, and used by many bowyers. Kirk
Btw... You are right about one thig Tim. The market was flooded years ago with cheap laminated bamboo flooring that WAS junk.... It was mass produced and sold cheap at lumber liquidators and a lot of flooring shops for a few years until it all started coming apart. I was doing a lot of remodeling in those days, and I replaced a lot of those junk bamboo floors with high quality stuff. That was what got me into researching high quality bamboo flooring material, and it came in handy as i started building bows. its also the purpose of this thread.... All bamboo is not created equally.
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100 percent actionboo is NOT junk. Has been proven Tobe a good core material. And in most cases more consistent with a known stack to hit target weight than regular wood.
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Okay folks I still stand buy the fact that there is already a good product on the market in actionboo that is available too all who want it.
But your thread Kirk was probably not the place to give my opinion. And I apologize for that. Was trying to make a point and did it in the wrong place. Sorry
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Kirk, that deflection test is very interesting indeed.
Great information to think about. Im not sure if you remember, but i made a post a month back or so wondering why I missed weight by almost 40% on a new recurve form. I had tried a new shape and tried the fossilized bamboo at the same time.
I think you are on to something and i will try another set of limbs with a much thinner stack than my records reflect before I write it off altogether.
If it works, and stays stable, you may have saved me from lighting $120 worth of flooring on fire.🔥🔥🥲
Thanks brother.
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What i want to try with that fossilized material is a 100% core on a 35 to 45# recurve. Or maybe use 50/50 with carbonized, only try it on the belly side and see how it does in compression. The stack height will be a crap shoot... You are right about that stuff really kicking the draw weight up. the last bow i used it on i cut the stack by .025 and still came in heavy.
I think it would be outstanding on the belly side of a long bow. Kirk
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What Im saying is what you have is not action boo that was what Oldmaster Crafter gave a name to what he was selling,What you have is good laminated bamboo It looks like the same bamboo I used after OM. I started using bamboo in my bows in the early 90s its great lam material if you get the right kind . What Rosewood has is good
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What Im saying is what you have is not action boo that was what Oldmaster Crafter gave a name to what he was selling,What you have is good laminated bamboo It looks like the same bamboo I used after OM. I started using bamboo in my bows in the early 90s its great lam material if you get the right kind . What Rosewood has is good
I have no idea what kind of bamboo Old Master Craft was peddling. But bowyers have been calling this laminated vertical grain bamboo "Action Boo" since about 2006 that i know of....
There was a HUGE amount of really crappy bambo on the market years ago. Besides the product being Moso bamboo, the way they handle it at harvest, what type of spray is used for bugs, and how they go about cooking it, and manufacturing this stuff all has a big effect on the finished product.... The heat treated "carbonized" product is what we are looking for use in these laminated glass bows. The natural can be used... but.... its pretty limp by comparison. Big difference in deflection rates. I like the white natural stuff for accent lines in risers. It mills like butter.
That Fossilized bamboo is pretty serious stuff too, but its mass weight is 1/3rd heaver. But it can be used with thin lams with excellent results that does not effect performance if it's done right... I've used that stuff for 2 years now in quite a few bows. Kirk
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Is fossilized the same as woven strand. Ive used that in longbows for around 10 years now on and off.
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Is fossilized the same as woven strand. Ive used that in longbows for around 10 years now on and off.
Yes Gary, the Fossilized stuff is a woven strand impregnated in epoxy resin. The density and hardness is off the charts and it has the highest Janka rating for hardness than anything on the market.
This stuff i purchased would work great for ASL long bows even on the belly side....I could send you some if you are interested in checking it out. Ya just gotta becarefull and drop your stack height way down to start out with on this stuff. My first bow using it with a target of 55# turned into a 90# bow on rough profile. :o :o :o You use much thinner lams with this stuff... Kirk
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Thanks kirk, but i have quite a bit left. Most of the bows i made were 45#-50# and were good shooters. Not speed demons, but in the 175- 185 fps range. 1” - 1/1/8” limb width at fadeouts and 5” tip wedges, deep cored and narrow tips. And i used 12” power lams in a few of them in the lighter weights and shorter draw lengths like 27” or so. Been a bit since bow making though, so i would have to find my log book to be precise. Thanks for the reply and offer though. Gary
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I think it’s ok if I high Jack my own thread here… :biglaugh:
So the big question is how that bigger boat of yours been treating you? Have you had it out much this last year? Plans for the coming season?
I went through a stage with ours where I was always working on something it seemed. I did some serious rewiring projects that helped eliminate my battery issues, and then we had some carburetor issues last summer that I got worked out. But So far so good this year. Have several trips out in the Columbia, Willamette, and lakes this year and she’s running like a top. I’m going to take her out to Bouy 10 this year and fish the big water with my son in law this August. My wife doesn’t like the big water. Kirk
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Kirk, sent ya a e-mail to Bigfoot Bows.
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How do you process bamboo flooring into bow making material?
Do you grind away the base material down to the thin layer of bamboo?
Obviously I have no idea of the process.
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How do you process bamboo flooring into bow making material?
Do you grind away the base material down to the thin layer of bamboo?
Obviously I have no idea of the process.
You want the vertical
(https://i.imgur.com/iaysx03.jpg)
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Action Boo is just a name someone gave it like a superLam, meaning it has more than 1 taper rate or more.
I believe some bamboo is better than others. heat treating, carbonized, toast, or whatever flooring Company's name it.
my 2 cents :cheesy:
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The name action I thought came from actionwood vertical laminated and used a core lams same as the bamboo is vertical laminated thus Actionboo :dunno:
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The name action I thought came from actionwood vertical laminated and used a core lams same as the bamboo is vertical laminated thus Actionboo :dunno:
I think you are spot on there Stic…. That first bunch of “Action wood” that came out was used for gun stocks mostly and the bowyers picked up on it, and the name …. “Action boo” was incorporated at the time about 18 years ago. Kirk
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We used to I get actionwood that was hard maple a few years later it was made from birch instead.
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We used to I get actionwood that was hard maple a few years later it was made from birch instead.
I didn’t know they made action wood from maple. All the stuff on the market was birch that I saw. When was this? I didn’t get into bow building until 2006.
Now we did go though a phase many years ago making our own action wood. And a combo of walnut and maple was good stuff…. But….very time consuming and expensive core wood that didn’t test any better than action boo. This vertical grain bamboo is damn hard to beat for core wood.
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Gosh Kirk hate to date myself. It was in the early 1980s both the Old Master Crafter and Binghams carried it. At that time Binghams only carried it and a maple veneer no other core lams. The Old Master Crafter had a limited exotic core wood selection. I used to order pretty core wood from Mike Fedora and Appalachian Archery. Those were the only real choices back in the day.
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I’m sorry you had to reveal your Jurassic bowyer status Jess. :biglaugh: I was kind of sad seeing Binghams Projects shut down. I used them for my first bow supplies and bought all their plans to study. They did a good job getting guys started in the right direction. I still used them for mics stuff up until they retired.
I think old master crafter was still around when I got started, but not for long. I never used them for anything though…..When did they throw in the towel?
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I believe it was 2015 after John passed, Jim belcher bought most of the machines and such, does'nt seem that long ago, Time flies. Waukegan Bowmen have a Jonny G string shoot in his honor every year around the end of June. Great shoot and club.
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James Parker had some that maple/ walnut ? action wood he got from Humming bird bows with all the inventory and forms.
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James Parker had some that maple/ walnut ? action wood he got from Humming bird bows with all the inventory and forms.
That was a great combo for action wood lay ups. We were playing with it building hot rod bows years ago.
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:thumbsup: :bigsmyl:
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I am selling and using the moso bamboo also. I was offered the choice of wider and narrower laminates and paid extra for the narrow laminates. No finish or grooves to mill off of mine either.
BigJim
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:archer2:
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This is beginning to tick me off a bit here....First I've got TG hall of fame bowyer, and now another sponsor / bowyer posting on an advertisement thread of mine trying to steer business away. :dunno: :dunno:
What the hell is going on here?
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My reply was not to drive business away from you.. You stated that you couldn't find what you were looking for until this flooring and it was limited. Also that there was very little yield due to tenon's and locks.
There's very little money to be made in bamboo sales anyway.
BigJim
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Ok Jim.... So it's alright with you that i post i also have some beautiful black and white ebony for sale on your advertisement for B&W ebony thread? Not!.... Poor form i'd say...
The whole point of this thread for me was to point out this very thin laminated bamboo is excellent quality, and i wanted to share it with other bowyers. So i bought a bunch of it in anticipation of doing just that. You boys are not helping with that.... Poor form...
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:nono:
:tongue:
:)
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Hey Kirk, you mentioned you had to reduce the stack height with that new boo, have you used enough to have a general idea of how much less the stack has to be maintain a target DW?
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No I haven’t really tested anything on finished limbs at all, and only I’ve only laid up a couple sets of limbs now with it myself. Other than bench deflection tests with a 4 ounce weight compared to the Fossilized material, that’s as far as I’ve gone.
That fossilized stuff was the material that needed a stack reduction. I went from .060 lams to .040 to get them closer to the same weight and deflection. I seriously doubt that the two carbonized products side by side, both being moso bamboo, and the only difference being thinner lams will have a significant impact on stack height. But…. After milling a bunch of it it’s very consistent.
I did find a couple boards in the last case that had slightly thicker lams that I didn’t notice until after I ripped them into strips, but they were all consistent quality in material.
Like big Jim said earlier, there isn’t any money to be made from selling bamboo. I was just excited about this outstanding material and wanted to share it with some others. Kirk
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Thanks for the info :thumbsup:
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BTW..... I still have some of these fossilized lams already ripped and in bundles of 20 that i'll part with if anyone is interested in playing with it.
I also found another bundle of Black Myrtle wood lams that are rough cut through the table saw if someone wants them for veneer stock.
Kirk