Hello everyone,
I have been contemplating making the switch from a 4 blade head to a 2 blade head for the 08' season. Like many of you, I've followed Dr. Ashbys research with great interest and admiration. While I would love to say I can sharpen the "Grizzly El Grande" to a razor's edge...I'd be lying.
With that said, I've resigned myself to perhaps try a high quality 2 blade that I can sharpen. My search has lead me to the Eclipse and the STOS. Both heads seem easier to sharpen and both come highly endorsed by many on this and other sites.
Before I commit to either, I would sincerely appreciate any adivce and/or input about these heads from the many users on the "TG" site.
Thanks, Peter Iacavazzi
Hi Peter,
I've been very pleased with the Eclipse. Sharpens easy, holds an edge and is tough. I think the teflon coat is a good thing also.
Never tried the STOS so can't comment.
I've attache a picture of a bear I shot with an Eclipse 125. It penetrated about 1/4" past the end of the ferrule. 62# Osage selfbow and 640fr Ash shaft. Not a big bear but still impressive I think.
(http://www.darktimberdesign.com/photos/BearSkullFrnt.jpg) (http://www.darktimberdesign.com/BearSkullBack.jpg)
Haven't shot an Eclipse, but if I were to shoot a journeyman style head, that one would be it. Have had very good results with 160 grain STOS. I don't file sharpen though. I use true angle file and stone system and round the tips. Eclipse would be more difficult to do on true-angle hones. Probably can get either equally sharp with a file.
Thanks Guys!
JC, is sending me a STOS to test drive. I've had several PM's and it seems most like both heads. I haven't really had a negative comment about either head.
Peter
Hey Peter,
Good to see you on here again. With the heavy poundage that I know you shoot, I would say you may want to consider a bit larger head. Last year I shot a Zwickey Delta two blade, and it made a LARGE hole in the deer I shot. This year I am lookin at either the Zephyr Sasquatch or something of similiar size. I shoot approx 70# at my 30" draw. Just my .02. BTW, I need to get out to Montana one of these days to check out your gym and roll with you guys. Hopefully one of these days......
brackshooter
Hey Brother,
As you know, you're always welcome in Montana. I have a friend who shoots the Zephyr and he really loves em. But according to Ashbys data, a vented head penetrates less than a solid head.
My hunting partner "Rosey" shoots only Zwickeys (4 blade Delta) and his succss is proof positive of the effeciency of a Zwickey!
I'm leaning towards a 160gr STOS with a 45gr insert. 200 plus grains and all agree it sharpens easily and flys like a dart. It is also close to that 3:1 ratio that Dr. Ashby recomends.
Anytime you're in Montana, get a hold of me.
Peter
www.rockymountainrapeescape.com (http://www.rockymountainrapeescape.com)
My hunting partner has used the STOS 160grn with a easton axis 400 with good success. Last season he popped over a ridge on a herd of elk. He picked a spot on the nearest cow and released. The shot was good and he got a clean pass through. The shot didn't seem far but the hillside was open and the elk seemed close. Turned out to be exactly 62 yards and the arrow went through the near side shoulder blade and got both lungs. She stayed put and never took a step before tipping over. Sure a bit of luck was involved but he was shooting a heavy flat shooting bow and shoots everyday. It made me a believer in the STOS head. Mike
Mike,
Wow! That is impressive. I'm leaning towards the 160gr. STOS
Thanks, Peter
I shot the old Journeyman heads and now shoot he Eclipse and have been very happy with them. That"s about 15 years so I guess they work for me. If I didn't shoot the Eclipse I would shoot the STOS.
Jack
Just look at the basics. In the same weights the eclipse is wider and looks like it has a longer ferrule. I don't have any here to mic out but I would assume then the main blade is thinner? The eclipse is curved and the stos is straight. Which do you like the looks of better? I believe both are easy to sharpen. I would say because of the curve of the eclipse the stos probably has the mechanical advantage, but Ashby says the teflon of the eclipse helps. Pretty much a toss up.
Pete -- Two of my favorite heads. Purely from a mechanical-advantage p.o.v. I have to go with the STOS, which is more streamlined and comes in a heavier weight, 160 vs. 145. But the tip is definitely too fine and needs a Tanto treatment. The curved blade of the Eclipse is harder to sharpen and tends to go flat after enough passes of the file. However, I've toured the Eclipse manufacturing operation in Boise and was most impressed with both the quality of materials, and the personal care given to each head. And as Ashby testifies, the Teflon coating is first-rate. Both fly beautifully from all my bows. The deciding factors for me would be the game being hunted and the weight/speed of your bow. For bigger tougher game like elk, and medium-weight bows like I have to shoot these days (mid-to high 50s) I go with STOS for the extra weight and MA. With heavier bows and lighter game, the Eclipse rips one hell of a hole. You can now special order Eclipse in single-bevel, right or left, but I'd like to see them come in with a 180 grain head and thicker steel to max the single-bevel effectiveness. Two excellent heads, and both companies owned by folks who really care. dave
maybe you should try the DMT sharpening "stones"...
in using first the blue, next the red and next the green, you get a very easy way to sharpen the grizzly after a good file preparation..at the end the most important is the leather polishing finish wich revels the razor sharpening...I hope it could help...before the same thing for me with an arkansas stone was like : :banghead:
Thanks Guys!!
Dave, I spoke with Ron at KME sharpeners today. Damn!! What a great guy. He lives in NJ, very close to where my family lives. (Yes, I'm a Montana boy now, but I was once a Jersey kid)!!
Anyway, I'm heading home this summer for a family visit and Ron has invited me over for coffee and perhaps even a sweet bourbon, later in the day. But aside from the planned "Happy Hour" Ron is going to spend the time teaching me how to get a Grizzly El Grande razor sharp!!
So, hopefully with the awesome KME sharpening system and some tuteledge from the man himself...I may yet be shooting the "Grizz".
Ron, had great things to say about the Eclipse and the STOS...Hmmm...Maybe I can get him to teach me how to sharpen them as well.
Thanks for all the advice everyone!
Peter Iacavazzi
www.rockymountainrapeescape.com (http://www.rockymountainrapeescape.com)
The STOS head is a lot better if you file off a pretty good bit of the tip, so it doesn't curl if it hits bone. That might be true for any 2 blade, but I particularly noticed it with this one.
STOS are very good heads. My favorite.
Pete -- yep, Ron is the best. For anyone here who hasn't seen it, go to his website and check out one of his sharpening online video clips. Like the owners of STOS and Eclipse, and like Ed Ashby, Ron is dedicated to decreasing wounding loss, thereby increasing both hunter success and ethics. Sip one for me while there, eh? dave
Pete,
My goal is to test out the 160 STOS' penetration on a Montana lion with a couple of old Laurel and Hardy types named Rosey and Don next year( I figure a year on the treadmill might help keep this sea level guy alive)I'll post the results of my "test"
Don,
Don't tell Rosey you're shooting a 2 blade head...you'll have to hear about 4 blades from him for the rest of your trip.
Make sure you bring lots of food for the long hours spent in the truck...Rosey and Don T, will eat just about anything...
Thats why I'm worried about surviving the cold and altitude- I'm afraid they may get hungry and carve up my backstraps and feed the rest to the dogs if I bite the dust,I mean snow.
LOL! They prefer "M.R.E's" and Cheese. Oh, and lots of coffee. Niether one of them can walk that fast and Rosey usually has his walking stick (A.K.A. Virgil)"as in Virgil Cane was his name" with him at all times. If he gets going too fast (which I doubt) just knock his stick out of his hands and you'll be fine.
As for Don T. If he's driving. By all means BUCKLE UP!!
Let me know when you're coming our way, I'll try and join ya for moral support and to see to it the two "Yahoos" don't drive ya nuts!
Meet me in Montana...(hey aint that a song?)
Peter Iacavazzi
www.rockymountainrapeescape.com (http://www.rockymountainrapeescape.com)
Pete, Let us know how the Griz sharpening tutorial goes with Ron. I may make the trip just to have you teach me :) Will be at Chico Hot Springs(near you?) in July with family and in Lewistown with a deer A tag in hand in Nov. Maybe a good time for a sharpening class.
But seriously about the broadheads, while the griz stats from Dr Ashby's report intrigues me, I will still use a STOS or Zwickey simply because they have proven themselves over the years and are easy for me to sharpen (plus all my arrows are left wing.) The eclipse is a challenge for me to sharpen with the curved edge.
Don,
Chico is a great time! Yes, it's fairly close to me. I live in Bozeman...often times refered to as "Boz-Angeles", for obvious reasons. Please let me know when you'll be in the area. I'd love an excuse to head over to Chico! Please also know I have a clean and comfy guest room in my house in Bozeman, that you and yours are always welcome in.
Hey, the Zwickey head is a great BH. I've used them off and on since 85' and I don't think anyone can argue with thier track record. Judging by the feedback I've gotten on the STOS, I'm certain they won't dissapoint either.
I'll be around in July and Novemeber. I'm not the best BH sharpener, but hopefully with Ron's (KME) help, I'll will be come this fall!!
Hey, nice job on your TBM article! I enjoyed the read. Hmmm...everytime I hunt Don T's, all I ever get is his in-laws driving around and cutting the lawn under my treestand...And his dogs barking all night!!
Keep me posted on your Montana travel plans. Seeing as "Rosey" is my son Tanner's Godfather, you may get to meet Tanner in November as well. He thinks "Uncle Rosey" is a Rock Star!!
Shoot me an e-mail at piacavazzi@sitkagear.com and I'll give you my contact info (phone, address, etc)
See ya in Montana.
Pete
Thanks Pete, I had alot of help with the article.
Chico is shaping up to be a fun time. I'll pm you with the details.