Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Sojurn on November 05, 2023, 04:58:43 PM
-
It's been 6 years since I've drawn my bow on a deer. I'm lucky if I see 5 in a season. Clearly I'm doing something (or somethingS) wrong, but I don't know what.
I know public land hunting is tough but this is getting discouraging.
What do all of you do to stay motivated?
-
All I need to do is look at the grizzly bear lying next to me each morning and out I go
-
On a serious note, 6 years is a long time. Why don’t you tell us how you hunt so we could possibly add considerations for you?
-
I'm in central Minnesota. Thick everything, and lots of swamp. I try to stay out of bedding, but other than that I'm having a tough time figuring out where they travel.
Food is plentiful. Water is everywhere. Cover is everywhere. And the terrain is flat.
I'm hunting the edges of swamp and woods wherever I find trails, or trails leading to oaks.
I know I'm doing things wrong. And it's tough to admit failure. But whatever I'm doing isn't working.
Insights welcome.
-
STOP
At this point if lightning strikes and you get a deer it still won’t be a success
6 years is way too long. You are learning and building on mistakes
The most fundamental being you are Hunting the wrong area and using un productive methods.
Try to join the Tradgang group Javalina Hunting
Try hunting another state or different part of your state with a successful traditional bow hunter
There’s more but start with that
Good Luck <><
<———————-<<<<<<
-
Whatever stands you are hunting now, don't hunt them anymore, find new area..
Motivation, cant help, but a 6 year streak like you are in, Id take up a new hobby. I dont get many opportunities at game, but enough to keep me going barely... 6 years, WOW.. Cant imagine.
-
I'm in central Minnesota. Thick everything, and lots of swamp. I try to stay out of bedding, but other than that I'm having a tough time figuring out where they travel.
Food is plentiful. Water is everywhere. Cover is everywhere. And the terrain is flat.
I'm hunting the edges of swamp and woods wherever I find trails, or trails leading to oaks.
I know I'm doing things wrong. And it's tough to admit failure. But whatever I'm doing isn't working.
Insights welcome.
Deer are creatures of habit if undisturbed.... You say you are hunting public land? Do you often see other hunters? Do you hunt from the ground, or a tree stand? and the big question is , how much time do you actually spend out there hunting and watching these trails?
How much fresh deer sign do you see? any Rubs during the rut? What type of deer are you hunting? White Tail, or Mule deer? Kirk
-
Not cool telling our brother to take up another hobby.
I thihk this is a great thread topic and I admire you for keeping at it. Says more about you in a good sense than folks having to be successful in seeing lots of deer and killing deer. I think they miss the point of traditonal archery.
Anybody can kill deer where there are lots of them. Heck, I can any day and choose to hunt where there are few deer because I like the challenge and going a few years without shooting a buck is fine with me, actually I think I am a better hunter because of it. I used to NEED to kill deer and did kill a bunch with my trad bows in agricultural areas but easy is not fun or rewarding to me. So, I for one applaud you and yes, try some different areas and scout more than you hunt but stick with it my brother.
-
If you have an idea where other hunters are setting up, try setting up elsewhere if that's at all possible. Sometimes you can use them to unknowingly push deer to you.
They still have to eat so if you know where they are bedded you have a start.
Deer will head for the thickest cover if pressured. Perhaps being pressured they have gone nocturnal. A trail camera will tell you if that's the issue.
Perhaps invest in a lot of time scouting the area you are in after the season could give you some clues for next year. That helps me stay motivated and in reasonable shape.
How are the other hunters doing?
-
In my area (according to my state) there are 3.4 deer per mile, and archers (including compound ds) have a 20% success rate (this success rate is state wide. I suspect its much lower in my area). Seeing other people in the woods is not uncommon. People hunt squirrels, birds and bears here.
I hunt mostly from the ground, but last year especially I made an effort to spent more time in trees. I dont know if it made a difference really, it's certainly more hassle.
Is 20% normal for most areas? I have so many questions. Thank you to those of you trying to help. I dont know where to go or how to turn this around.
-
Brother you say food is everywhere. Do you know the preferred food sources and which order things are preferred? Also are you using the wind and hunting the wind and ever changing preferred food sources by staying mobile?
I tend to often give acorns as an example but deer prefer white oaks, chestnut oak is white but typically not a preferred white so we’d avoid that one typically. I use binos mid summer, deer aren’t in the oaks then, no reason to be. I glass up and see which trees have mast. I that can check those areas in or just before season to see if deer are using. Black oaks next. During my scouting ahead mid summer trips I notice black oaks. Once the whites are gone they change to black. Your scouting has you knowing where you’re hunting next.
Now say a bunch of whites are all dropping. I like to use the ring around trees. When acorns are ready and a tree actively used by squirrels it’s commonly the tree deer are using too. Squirrels climb up, cut branches down to get acorns. There’s a green ring by the active tree. It turns brown let it go and look for next green ring.
There are food sources like bean, or anything green that are real good, often trumping acorn but once they yellow bean gets avoided. Once brown again used but lesser extent commonly. Fruit trees when ripe have high draw for a bit but aren’t long lasting. Still worth hunting when available. Imo you’ve got to learn which food are preferred when and plan that route until the rut hits and then I change a bit if I still have buck tags. Early in the walk phase I’d find rub lines. That’s a bucks walking pattern very often. Find a line, then follow it, see if you get multiple lines intersecting. That’d be a great spot walk phase. I can offer more but this might help and I don’t want post a novel. Learn the local preferred food. Idk if agriculture comes into this either. But that a whole nother bunch considerations
-
Is that 3-4 deer per square mile correct? Sounds low
-
I'm in about the same boat...well there's plenty of deer around here...just not on land that I can hunt. I'm about burned out this season already. Too many hours sitting with, essentially, no deer.
I finally set enough vacation aside to spend a few days in the Hoosier national forest. I used to love hunting down there even though the deer density is NOTHING like at home. I haven't been able to hunt it since I was self employed (9 years ago). I learned something. I can't hunt those hills anymore. The COPD says those days are over.
In a week minus some time out for weather I found ONE spot with deer sign flat enough to get in and out of and close enough that I might be able to get a deer out. I went back to hunt it and found a guy in a saddle who was there every day after. That's the other thing...I never saw so many people down there before. there used to be some campers on the weekend and they went home on Sunday. This was a whole new deal. The place was crawling with people. It was hard to find a place to park if you wanted to hunt something you couldn't walk to from camp.
I found a real sweet spot by a pond on a big flat that was loaded with sign...about 3 mountains over with each ridge top covered in waist high briar. That was the easier way there. I got there, took some pictures to prove it, sat for about an hour and decided that I had better start back. There is NO way in hell that I could get a deer out of there.
The only deer I saw were on the road through farm land on the way to get groceries.
-
It's been 6 years since I've drawn my bow on a deer. I'm lucky if I see 5 in a season. Clearly I'm doing something (or somethingS) wrong, but I don't know what.
I know public land hunting is tough but this is getting discouraging.
What do all of you do to stay motivated?
You're the only one who can decide what motivates you. I keep saying I'm going to quit hunting and I keep going back at it. It hasn't been about "fun" for a very long time. I've never killed a lot of deer but I used to enjoy the hunting I had. My most enjoyable deer hunting was in the early 90's. I was a single custodial parent and I was hunting Ill. state forest 70 miles from home. I didn't get to hunt very much and I was always behind as far as scouting. But, I saw sign and enough deer to keep me interested. I enjoyed hunting.
Now, I see hundreds of deer in a weeks time just driving to and from work, both my vehicles are smashed to pieces by deer. It just taunts me. It's something I want but can't have. I know kids from farm families who kill piles of deer and turkeys without even trying. I'm just too GD mean to quit. I just don't like to get beat this bad and give up. As soon as I quit, I think "maybe if I do this or try that". It's been a very long time since I've had "fun" doing this.
-
All can say it's in my blood I haven't killed a deer yet with my Longbow but I am going to keep trying until I can't or die. Here's a couple saying that help me keep motivated " Can't kill anything if your not setting on the couch " And stick and stay make them pay"
-
If you want to kill game, you have to hunt where there's game. I'd rather see 12 deer per hunt then 1 deer every 12 hunts. I'd rather challenge myself in the getting close to the 12 for a quality shot than the challenge of hoping to see one every few days of hunting.
There are plenty of opportunities out there if you are willing to spend time, money and effort to find and utilize them
-
I hunt long island where we have an estimated deer herd off 25+ per square mile and the only opportunity i got last year was a messed up racked fork horn which I shot. This year I've taken two does and let a bunch of small bucks walk. If you have cover and plenty of food there has to be more than 3 per square mile unless you have wolves that are wiping out the herd. Where I hunt there is acorns everywhere, plenty of corn fields on private property and they can bed everywhere. I concentrate on funnels, scrapes in cover and rub lines.
Do you scout a lot? Have you found rubs and scrapes? Did you put out any trail cams? How are you approaching your hunting spot? Are the deer hearing you approach, smelling you approach? Access to your stand can be very important. Are you playing the wind correctly? Hunting from the ground your visibility in thick cover is poor. I would get into a treestand more often. If i would you I would look for some trails through the swamp on higher ground so their feet don't get wet, edges of heavier cover to open woods, swamp edges.
-
I can't really speak to your hunting situation because I'm out west in the Rocky Mountains. For me it's elk and mule deer, and I hunt on the ground, mostly spot and stalk. And I hunt public land, mostly national forest.
I've found that hunting a different area keeps things fresh, and interesting. Granted, you have to hunt an area that holds game, so doing some homework and pre-season scouting is a must, but that's part of what keeps it engaging.
This year I hunted an area I haven't been to in 20 years, and a place in that area that I've never been to. I didn't harvest an elk, but what I found will keep me going back for years. Chock full of fresh sign in this secluded little hanging basin miles from the nearest road or hiking trail. Stunningly beautiful. That's what keeps me motivated.
-
Sounds like you may be hunting in the same area in MN as I am.
Last year I hunted about eight days and on six of those days I saw one doe. On another day I saw three deer. After rifle season it was brutal- zero deer seen. And I have access to good private hunting land. I hunted some areas eighty miles away from the first parcel of land.
I think the numbers are down. I’ve seen very few deer in the fields at night.
I went out yesterday and saw nothing. I was sitting in the woods about fifteen yards downwind from a major trail with lots of sign, and four large scrapes. There were also secondary intersecting trails about twenty yards from me and one closer.I was about a hundred yards from oak trees that still had a lot of uneaten acorns on the ground and a harvested bean field with scattered beans left. I thought to myself, , I doesn’t get much better than this for a set-up. But the deer had moved, or changed patterns. Maybe a better food source someplace.
I used to hunt from treestands almost exclusively and maybe if I had done that I would have seen some deer further away. But I think I’m pretty much done with climbing trees.
During the youth hunt, one nice doe was taken and her stomach was full of acorns
I just think the numbers of deer in those areas are fewer than in the past. So, I think if it is really important to you, you need to change your hunting area.
I am motivated by just enjoying what I do. I love being in the woods in October and November bowhunting. No deer? Maybe a ruffed grouse will present itself. I like it all.
-
There are plenty of opportunities out there if you are willing to spend time, money and effort to find and utilize them
Time and money is exactly what's at issue. I started looking for a lease at the end of the season last year. I never found anything close enough to home to do me any good. What I did find was idiotically expensive for what it was.
Some people take hunting trips. God bless them but I have to work and there isn't a ton of money.
Please don't misunderstand. We've all made choices in life that are, in large part, why we are where we are. Got it. However, hunting has become one of those things that's above the pay grade of many of us. Private jets, mansions and yachts are also beyond my means. I'm learning to live with it.
-
I agree with you.
The last 3 days I'm on a draw hunt. Federal Wildlife Reserve here in North Texas. Took four years to draw out. Kill a mature doe with a single arrow through the vitals and you get a ticket to go the next year. I've done that first day, shot a pig last night and this evening will be the last hunt. Have only seen 4 bucks, none of them shooters, but it's windy and hot. Tough conditions with acorns everywhere. But if you don't apply, you don't get drawn. Not sure what, if any, draw hunts they have there but they are fun when you get drawn, even if you don't always get drawn.
-
Maybe take a look at the Warren Mn. area you may not get on private land but there is some public and there is good agriculture to hunt by even sugar beets .
-
Ok, lots to respond to here so I'll do my best.
I have 3 main areas I hunt. One wet swamp/bog with uninterrupted woods to the south. On this property I can access from the east or the west depending on what the wind is doing, It has scattered oaks, and hazelnuts scattered throughout, so I hunt the edges of swamp and where the higher ground meet.
There's a private place with a corn field that hasn't been touched. There's a doe with a fawn there, but the land owner is partial to them, and I'd rather not shoot them anyway.
Last is a big (1500ish acers) plot of public, but the dnr has been busy slashing and burning it for 2 years making it ready for grouse. This area also sees a ton of pressure from small game hunters, and more and more deer hunters. I have no idea what thier success rate is like.
I'll admit to not being very savvy on what deer prefer for food as the season progresses. I find beds, scrapes/rubs and the obvious food sources (acorns, ag fields) and try to set up to catch them as they move from one to the other (wind permitting).
If I was getting busted by deer a lot I would at least know I was in the right area, but I see between 3 and 10 deer a season. And these are usually the ones that wind me, or I bump as I walk in.
And lastly (I think) 3.39 deer per square mile is accurate. The highest in the state is just over 7.5ish, and as low as .2ish.
-
Hunted three days so far. First day saw a few doe. That was nice. Nothing the other two times. Hopefully something will stroll by tomorrow but still blessed to be in the woods. God is good!
-
Sojurn your fine we are here to help. First thing, stop stressing, took me 7 years get my first deer. Here are a few things may help, along with others advice. All I hunt is public.
1. Have fun, each time we go out see great things beside deer.
2. If not seeing deer what you have to loose. Move around. Use an app or map and logbook. Write down all the places you hunted and data. Also any and all sign see or game pushed. Doing this gives you a better vision of area.
3. Now look at the data, then put together where you havent been and strike out there.
4. Add to your book, in short time it will start making sense.
5. What time do you hunt? Maybe try a mid day hunt. Had one place I hunted this was only time seen deer.
6. Get a copy of gene wensel come november book. Food is important, but not only thing that matters.
7. Dont be afraid to reach out to me or many others, today with phones pics are easy.
The hunt starts when you leave truck until get back, even tough times I still am glad to be out in woods. Message me here anytime.
-
Great post toddster! :campfire:
-
If I were looking to hunt in Nov, the peak of the rut is important. Bucks will be chasing does during the days while the moon is dark, and hunting is only legal during the days. The darkest days are Nov 6 - 18th. If your looking for new ground, you might consider older, farms where there is more cover, surrounded by active farms. Small or large and talk to the owners and inquire about damage. They might need some help. Hunt on the ground until you find enough fresh sign and get familiar with the habits of the deer, moving from feeding to bedding and back to feed in the evening. Look for scrapes and other signs indicating that bucks are in the area. Make a note of the wind patterns so you pick the best spots to sit, clear a shooting lane if needed. Good luck. Before next season, find some private land and ask about scouting around planted fields, and orchards. if your interested in helping the owner offer some free labor for a place to hunt if it looks attractive. Win - win for both.
-
I think it may be in your best interest to find some more deer populated hunting grounds even if you need to travel. or find some private land to hunt that has less pressure. i don't think i could keep interested in your situation with so few deer and running into other hunters. it would be impossible to get a pattern established, and most the deer would be feeding at night anyway.
good luck....
i'm spoiled out west. we have a LOT of public land, with a lot of deer, both black tail and mule deer. and if you are willing to hike a bit, you never see another hunter in the woods on public land. I have blacktail deer in my yard from time to time. Typically after thanks giving when the rut is on i see the big boys running around. I rarely go hunt for them any more. I just wait for them to start hanging out around the place and keep a full quiver close at hand.
-
I can certainly sympathize being a public land hunter myself and having to hunt deer that are constantly pressured. My luck is expanded because I am fearful of hunting in a tree stand after having a close accident. But that being said I keep going out because when I do encounter deer it's a blast. Take for example this year, I sat at base of tree and watched a doe come in 25 yards away. She had no idea I was there, all calm as can be. Next thing you know she gallops right at me and stops mere feet away to my left. I had to giggle, she was so close I could count her whiskers. I'll be honest and say the experience of being outdoors alone and left to my thoughts while I hopefully wait is a blessing over my regular life that is filled with stress.
-
I'll respond not cause i know it all or am supper successful, but rather cause I too hunt public land near my cabin which is northwoods wisconsin stuff. Doe tags are hard to get in my spot.
It can be real tough at times for sure.
If you truly only have 3 deer per square mile then thats extremely tough and i think you'll always struggle with that.
My problems are deer can bed alot of places and feed alot of places I hunt so narrowing it down can be tough.
1)Some things I've learned is you need to be mobile, don't get hung up in one location. I still fall for it though as i hunt a certain tree or spot and alot of times the first sit is good so i feel like i should hunt it again and then the spot dies out. So move around!
2)Traditional bowhunting is tough so don't make it any harder. Ground hunting can be good in certain areas but if there's a tree get up in it. I tried ground hunting a couple years and it was very frustrating. Normally used a lonewolf climber or lonewolf hang on however switched to saddle hunting 2 years ago and it is not only easier, safer, and more comfortable, but also i feel like i don't get picked off since you can stay behind the tree. I will not use a stand again.
3)Scent control. This is a must.
4)Try to hunt when conditions are good rather than whenever you can. This will keep you from getting burned out and also up your odds as your not messing up the areas you hunt as much.
5)For some motivation/instruction try watching some of Dan Infalts(hunting beast) you tube channel and also John Ebarhart(Ebarhart Outdoors) youtube. Dan hunts some swampy public land stuff in Wisconsin and John hunts public land also. Two different guys so take some from each and it might help ya.
6)Don't be afraid to try some game cameras. Yeah i now it's not traditional and all but they can help you learn alot. The idea is not to find out what hour the deer comes in so you can slip in and kill it. It's to learn how deer use the area or if they even do use it. And the cell cameras are absolutely the best cause your not going in and checking them which will cause the deer to pattern you. Thats what happened to me. I'd check a camera and the area would be dead for awhile. I picked up a cell camera this year and it's been not only educational but also fun. I live 3 hours from my hunting spot so i don't get to go scout much.
So keep at it. Try new spots. Hunt smarter.
-
I doubt you're doing much wrong. 3-4 deer per square mile is a very low density. And looked at another way, a 20% success ratio is one deer per five years.
The area I hunt in NW Wisconsin is similar. Ten or more years ago, it wasn't unusual to see at least a half dozen deer a day. Now I go days without seeing a deer.
Bad winters, predators and the DNR's continued insistence on shooting does has really knocked down the deer population in my area. The deer just aren't there, even though the food and cover is good. Scouting also proves this out, as do other hunters who have hunted the area for years.
My brother and i just returned from a week long hunt. I saw two deer, a spike that I passed, and a pretty big buck that i didn't offer a shot. My brother didn't see any deer during the same time.
One thing you might try, if you're not already, is to hunt during the middle of the day (10 a.m. to 2 p.m.) during the rut. I've been keeping records of buck sightings for more than 30 years, and that's when i see the most and biggest bucks during the rut Sunrise to 10 a.m. is the second best time. Late afternoon until dark the least productive, though i have killed a couple of nice bucks just before dark. Regardless, I try to be on stand dark to dark during the rut.
Keep at it. Good luck.