Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: derekdiruz on October 07, 2023, 12:35:39 PM
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I'm doing mental gymnastics with coming up for an efficient way to make my edge sander a template sander. I've got the grizzly tabletop 6x80 one. There's about 1.5" from motor to the base of the drive drum. My drum is flat in the center, with a taper solely about .75" from each end.
One thing I'm considering is a collar on a plate, made by a machinist friend. This I could bolt to the motor mounts. However, I've seen a few things about "pins" rather than bearings or collars. Can anyone elaborate on what that may look like? I'm struggling with this idea because a single or multiple pins, unless a full collar, would offer some void where the template could be pulled beyond the pin, if that makes sense.
Anyways, hoping to have an effective template sander from this unit within the next week. I'd be supremely grateful for any advice or how to on this! I've searched all I can on here and can't find anything that really answers what I'm looking for.
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I I had a do over mine would be a pin or collar. I think a person could figure how to put a small bearing on a pin. And not need a guide wheel at all. But a pin or collar will work fine.
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Here is Crooked stic setup
(https://i.imgur.com/LJVHwnP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IqVm4jt.jpg)
A bearing, same size as the drive roller with sand paper on would slide on the table much better.
I have a rub collar on mine and wish I had a bearing, but still works
(https://i.imgur.com/KDuZ2R9.jpg)
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Thank you guys, the question begs, where do I find a bearing 4.5" with a 1" inner diameter lol. I'm no machinist and I've never bought bearings for anything. Again, can't wrap my head around this, sorry for redundant questions.
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Your friend will have to machine a collar to press over the bearing :thumbsup:
Don't forget to add the thickness of the sand paper, I like 60 grit
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Thank you! That makes a lot of sense. I'll certainly be discussing this with him, because a 1.5hp 220v belt sander moves a bit more efficiently than an old craftsman oscillating.
Today I got crafty, and have an old oscillating craftsman that I don't use for anything. I tore into it, and removed the oscillating function, and have made a drop in collar for it that'll work in the time being as a template sander. Did a few tests with it this morning and I'm very happy with it. Definitely though, I'm going to be exploring the grizzly much further, because that's what I want that machine for. Not much other use for it at this point beyond templating in my shop.
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Mine is a ridgid oscillating sander, I used the belt assembly only and have a spare too, they don't make the assembly anymore.
(https://i.imgur.com/cMKl7mH.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/JSwsIeu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fFrRWNJ.jpg?2)
Spare
(https://i.imgur.com/eVVDVik.jpg)
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Max - I like that. Pending the cost of a 117mm bearing, I may do that to my ridgid (i've got the older version, not the orange one, the grey one), as I don't use it for much. I don't have a drill press though, so again, pending the cost of the bearing I may just buy a drill press LOL
Crooked Stic, why do you think you'd go the route of a pin rather than bearing given the option to do it again? A pin seems absurdly simple and like something I can do here without a machinist... but am I missing something as to why it's not a popular solution for folks?
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The bearing should be cheep (40.00) get the biggest outside Diameter bearing (2-1/2" to 3")that fits the shaft on the moto
The edge sander would be much better than the Ridgid :thumbsup:
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At today's prices the pin would be the cheaper way to go. Not that it would be better,
I will try to find the pics of my guide wheel today. It is not just a big bearing,
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At today's prices the pin would be the cheaper way to go. Not that it would be better,
I will try to find the pics of my guide wheel today. It is not just a big bearing,
I don't understand the pin thing??
Are you talking about a piece of round rod the same size as the drive roller??
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No just a rub pin placed under the drive drum on the table it would need to be center front and the same distance as the guide wheel or rub collar. If done right could even have a small bearing on it. Rose Oak built a few years back using phenolic tables and rub pins.
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Crooked Stic - to clarify, you need to keep your piece real square to the pin throughout that operation though, correct? Because I'd think not having a collar and having a small pin, you'd be able to dig into the master template really really easily.
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That would be correct. So most would be better off with a collar or guide wheel.
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Got it. Now I can picture pretty easily what ya mean. I think a pin would the move for someone not doing it full time - or a hobbyist. Or, as a stop gap prior to a collar. I’m having a collar machined but I’m going to try a pin here soon then lol
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Here's a link to a post that may give you some insight into what others have done to make a pattern sander.
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=174357.new%3btopicseen#new
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https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=153246.0
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Robert, thank you. That thread is impeccable and explains all so well. Precisely what I'll be doing.
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Thank you! That makes a lot of sense. I'll certainly be discussing this with him, because a 1.5hp 220v belt sander moves a bit more efficiently than an old craftsman oscillating.
Today I got crafty, and have an old oscillating craftsman that I don't use for anything. I tore into it, and removed the oscillating function, and have made a drop in collar for it that'll work in the time being as a template sander. Did a few tests with it this morning and I'm very happy with it. Definitely though, I'm going to be exploring the grizzly much further, because that's what I want that machine for. Not much other use for it at this point beyond templating in my shop.
You will find after a bit of use that doing pattern work on a spindle sander with exotic hardwoods that are tough on sand paper is not the way to go.
I had a machinist set up a bearing guide on my 80” edge sander many years ago and it’s definitely the best route. Yes… it’s more expensive to do, but far superior to a rub collar guide system and easier to use for precise pattern work.
Kirk
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What Kirk said
and even the Hard Tungsten sleeve clogs up too.
The longer the sanding belt the better it works.
My Pattern sander posted above has a 24" long belt and I use it over and over.
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Ohhhh yeah I absolutely understand. My oscillating conversion is purely a stop gap until I have the guide machined. My edge sander is a tank in comparison to this 4 amp sander. That oscillated I just used the other day for the first time and it took 10-15 min to template a riser. All I was thinking is how much faster it would be on the edge sander LOL
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Here is my set up/
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DrCQuTMjoeeTRoYQ7
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Here is my set up/
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DrCQuTMjoeeTRoYQ7
What is that, a Visqueen plastic curtain behind the aluminum plate??
Nice setup :thumbsup:
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A lot of hours working out all the bugs on these templates.
Need to have them CNC if I want to go forward.
(https://i.imgur.com/tqFcJet.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mgrN2SF.jpg)
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Very nice- I have a Cnc set up from my furniture building. What did you design that with? That’s the primary reason I wanted to set up a solid template sander, because I Cnc cut my form, Cnc cut my 3 piece risers, and use my Cnc thus far for every jig I’ve made in my shop. Figured an edge sander was the easiest way to “Cnc” a one piece riser- as I Cnc cut direct fitment jigs for my form.
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I started CAD drawing on a DOS program back in the early 90's and kept using it until 2 years ago.
Now I'm using a free program CadStd Pro 3.7.7
Make your Templates with something that is stable, I got some Plexiglass but it has waves in it so I sanded it flat by holding it to the edge sander, you can run it threw the thickness sander for the other side but you get snipe on each end with a thickness sander so you need 6" on each side to cut the snipe off. Holding the other side to the edge sander would make it flat too but not parallel, now we are splitting hairs but still should work just fine.
Screw several layers of plywood to the template and pattern sand them to the plexiglass and your set.
I used sheet rock screws
(https://i.imgur.com/Dkq5OkG.jpg)
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So, I had a donut machined that'll serve as a rub collar. it's 0.25" thick plate that a 4.608" circle was cut out of, as that's the diameter of my drive drum with a 50 grit belt on it. This will be on my grizzly edge sander.
My question is, for those that have done this sort of conversion, I'll be affixing the donut to a plate that'll serve as a table - and the table is going to be mounted to the motor mounts (essentially). What size plate do you think is adequate? Looking at .25" 12x16 6061 aluminum. Thoughts? Thicker? Wider? I'm not particularly planning to be templating 30" one piece risers, but heck if I know what's in the future. What did you use?
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I would go thicker than 1/4"
You need 8" or so in front of the rub collar for your work table and I would go 24" left to right for the work table. :thumbsup:
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This is why I ask! Lol thank you!
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This is why I ask! Lol thank you!
:thumbsup:
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Here is my set up/
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DrCQuTMjoeeTRoYQ7
What is that, a Visqueen plastic curtain behind the aluminum plate??
Nice setup :thumbsup:
That is my arctic curtain that I put up from November to about April-May when things warm up again. My shop is 36x36’ two stories high with a loft, and has a 12’x24’ machine shop attached. I have a 12x12’ insulated room, a 12x12’ tool room, and a small spray booth on the first floor. My ceiling height is 10’ and I only heat a 24x24 area in the winter by hanging the arctic curtains.
Unfortunately…. The edge sander sets right where the curtain line is, and I like where it sets. So I cut the curtain around it , and there is a flap I can open up to use the full length of the sander. This plastic is seriously heavy 10 mill plastic. It’s a commercial ground cover they use under concrete slabs. A 6’ long roll of this stuff weighs over 200 pounds, and it’s REAL expensive.
Here are some better pictures of my messy shop.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pVDDXPeY3nPaECCT8
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:thumbsup:
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I started CAD drawing on a DOS program back in the early 90's and kept using it until 2 years ago.
Now I'm using a free program CadStd Pro 3.7.7
Make your Templates with something that is stable, I got some Plexiglass but it has waves in it so I sanded it flat by holding it to the edge sander, you can run it threw the thickness sander for the other side but you get snipe on each end with a thickness sander so you need 6" on each side to cut the snipe off. Holding the other side to the edge sander would make it flat too but not parallel, now we are splitting hairs but still should work just fine.
Screw several layers of plywood to the template and pattern sand them to the plexiglass and your set.
I used sheet rock screws
(https://i.imgur.com/Dkq5OkG.jpg)
I think there are much better products to use for pattern sanding templates. There are composite products that are more durable like a G-10 FRP that isn't quite as dense or expensive. There are canvas lay ups with glass that are not real pretty that are really durable. The best is linen Micarta. The Plexy glass is too soft and scores easily if used a bunch and doesn't hold up well to any heat.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125625376240?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&toolid=10050&campid=5338675951&customid=16997310610810191510218531193008005&amdata=enc%3A1S55uV70RTRiNeaEUaEr0gw21
If you want to go cheaper... I would use a Polycarbonate rather than plexi glass. Much tougher stuff....
My footing jigs use a 1/4" thick piece of linen micarta like was posted above where the bearing guides run, and then i added a couple layers of 3/8" melamine. i have i've used these jigs for years with no wear. food for thought...
These were custom built for me from a pattern, and cut out on a CNC by Brandon Stahl from Rose Oak Creations. Unfortunately he doesn't build them any more, and got out of building bows too.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6HMY7bQrfz75Zuq57
If someone could come up with a good product. Selling these footing jigs would be pretty easy. All footing jigs dont work on different shape risers. I would buy some more myself if they were well made from micarta. Kirk
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I agree but the $ for me was to much. :dunno:
It's just a hobby for me and I'm not sure I will build any more, maybe a few. :saywhat:
Prices on everything Archery are up to high for me. :thumbsup:
Last build I did was 8 months ago.
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So, I made some progress on this.
I had a donut of steel machined, it's essentially the width of the drum with 60 grit sandpaper on it. I had my machinist bore a center hole about .010 larger than the shaft diameter of my motor. Also 2 holes 1/4-20 that are tapped so I can thread from below.
Then I had a steel plate cut. The plate is 1/4" steel, 18x24 and was plasma cut with a channel in it, about .25" larger than the diameter of the output shaft, and with about an inch of room front to back more than I needed.
I drilled holes to mount it to the motor mount after the fact. As a whole, I've tested it a bit and I think I may adjust the way it's mounted. It's on the motor mounts rather than mounted to the motor, which I think would help. I've made some quick legs to stabilize it, but I think they'd be significantly less important with it mounted to the motor. I'll change some things around here soon, but for now she lives and works! Here are some pictures.
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That ought to work really well. The only thing I done differnt maybe was had my table machined flat. But if it's pretty flat then no problems. Some guys even use alum. for a table. Mine is mounted on the motor with three bolts and has no issues so far.
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Table is a little thin (1/4") for my liking.
Nice build :thumbsup: :clapper:
What did it cost you?
Add this to the build alongs at the top of the page for the future.
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That should work just fine. :thumbsup: just watch your up and down on the sand paper adjustment closely. if it drops down over the lip of your guide you can easily screw up your pattern and your work. I added extra thickness to my pattern bases so it lifts the piece i'm sanding higher off the table, and i don't need to run my paper down so close to the bearing, or guide in your case.... .02 cents worth. Kirk
Another thought.... after you are all set up get another 3/4" top you can put over the steel table that has a formica surface that is just held in place with a clamp. This allows you to use that as an edge sanding table above the pattern guide for free hand work for shaping riser fades or whatever.....Food for thought.....
https://photos.app.goo.gl/scKVXq36q4yoH22w6
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Thanks all, As a whole, it cost me $125 - for the plate to be plasma cut & purchased. Relatively lucky, my friend is a machinist in a local shop & has been trading me quite a bit of work, in exchange for a bow at a later date lol.
I will agree, the paper is a mild concern being that low to the bushing, but as a whole, I went with a perfect donut so I can rotate as needed, if needed.
1/4", while I thought would be too small, with supporting legs and some additional bracing if needed, I can't fathom it won't be strong enough or hold shape. I've played around a bit with it & no issues I can foresee. I'm going to be really putting her to use this week, as I've been designing my templates on my CNC software & plan to cut them tomorrow morning. Future plans though, are to rebuild my couple of 1 piece forms on my CNC, so I can directly map & cut a riser template from the form. I do love my CNC lol
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Nice :thumbsup:
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So you a CNC router? Would you be interested in making so custom profile templates?