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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: adkmountainken on May 15, 2008, 01:04:00 PM

Title: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: adkmountainken on May 15, 2008, 01:04:00 PM
while turkey hunting i found a pile of owl pellets. i allways brake these open to see what they have been eating and usally ( %99 ) of the time i find mice skulls and rarely anything else. well to my suprise i found what i could only guess to be a skull of a small reptile, i had thought lizard, newt or something along that line. showed a buddy at work and he knew right away. now what is your guess????
 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/adkmountainken/b3.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/adkmountainken/b1.jpg)
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: john4645 on May 15, 2008, 01:10:00 PM
Tyrannosaur Rex ?
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: Ian johnson on May 15, 2008, 01:10:00 PM
shrew, mole?
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: JC on May 15, 2008, 01:11:00 PM
Dats a shrew...
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: Gatekeeper on May 15, 2008, 01:17:00 PM
I agree... shrew
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: adkmountainken on May 15, 2008, 01:23:00 PM
could be shrew, my buddy had said it was a bat as the teeth are very pointed and the jaw bone looked allmost canine, he was not %100 positive. interested to see what others think, so far shrew it is i guess!
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: inthecrease on May 15, 2008, 01:26:00 PM
What the heck is a shrew?

Someone's been on vacation and mom made them release a baby gator!
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: Bob B. on May 15, 2008, 01:33:00 PM
pretty long nose for a bat, but posible I guess.
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: adkmountainken on May 15, 2008, 01:35:00 PM
i believe the leg bones i found ( my buddy said the are wing bones, hence bat guess ) would be to long for a shrew. i guess i should have kept a couple more of the bones.
 Yeah, i thought it looked just like a baby gator skull, hence my lizard guess!!
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: JC on May 15, 2008, 01:39:00 PM
Hmmm, I guess it could be a bat...but looks like a shrew to me. Compare to this one...

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/recurvhuntr/Stuff/Shrew_Skull.jpg)

David, a shrew is a small mammal insectivore, about 30 different kinds in the U.S. High metabolism makes them a voracious eater, ron laclair didn't pick the name for his bows because they were average hunters. By the way, the short tailed shrew is the only poisonous mammal found in North America...they have a venom that's a neurotoxin I believe to help them kill prey more efficiently. Always liked shrews and wolverines...grit far beyond what their size belies.
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: Deadsmple on May 15, 2008, 01:43:00 PM
yup that's a bat
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: JC on May 15, 2008, 01:45:00 PM
Deadsmple, any idea what kind of bat? I didn't know any up that way had a snout that long...

Wait a minute...found a pic of a "big brown bat" and it looks like a dead ringer...

 Brown Bat (http://www.batguys.com/services/bats/Bat-Article-images/bathead.JPG.jpg)  

Bet you guys are right, looks like a bat now. Sure fooled me.
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: Deadsmple on May 15, 2008, 01:52:00 PM
Big brown is what i was thinking.
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: Deadsmple on May 15, 2008, 01:54:00 PM
Wow great pic JC!
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: inthecrease on May 15, 2008, 01:56:00 PM
Don't mean to derail, but JC, we got any shrews in GA? Reckon I've never seen one in 35 years in the woods if we do.


Sorry, carry on with the skull ID.
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: JC on May 15, 2008, 02:00:00 PM
Yup, we have 4 I think, the short-tailed shrew is the most common...that's the pi-son-us one! Most guys mistake them for mice.

Where you at in GA?
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: OkKeith on May 15, 2008, 02:11:00 PM
Well,

Hard to tell from those views. Seems too long to be a Brown bat skull. If it has cheek bones, mole. No cheek bones, shrew. Here are some ID drawings.

  (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m150/OkKeith/mole.jpg)
above: MOLE

  (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m150/OkKeith/shrew.jpg)
above: SHREW

  (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m150/OkKeith/Eptesicus_fuscus_lateral_240.jpg)
above: BROWN BAT

  (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m150/OkKeith/Eptesicus_fuscus_ventral_240.jpg)
above: BROWN BAT

Ken, if you get a chance remove the lower jaw and flip it upside-down the wide space between the "two front teeth" on a bat skull is fairly easy to see. Send us some more pics, it's a real cool find!

OkKeith
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: inthecrease on May 15, 2008, 02:18:00 PM
Griffin
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: adkmountainken on May 15, 2008, 02:24:00 PM
will do, its the little things of nature that are so fasciating!
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: DeerSpotter on May 15, 2008, 02:51:00 PM
He just have to know the right people !
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: mmgrode on May 15, 2008, 03:52:00 PM
Hey Guys,
   that Mammology class is now paying off- that's a mole skull from the family Talpidae, guys- it's in the same order as the shrews(Insectivora), but a different family(not Soricidae).  Notice the size of the skull(shrews even smaller), white enamel(vs. red on shrews), enlarged incisors, a complete zygomatic arch(unlike shrews), and lack of a cleft palate as in bats. Count the number of teeth.  If it's 36 then it's Scalopus aquaticus- eastern mole, if it's 44 it could be a starnosed mole- Condylura cristata . I can also give you a dental formula for each if you'd like it. Cool stuff, eh?  Take care, Matt
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: adkmountainken on May 15, 2008, 03:56:00 PM
Matt,
     i will count the teeth shortly, the leg bones looked to long to be a mole to me but i definitly will take your word for it. yes, cool stuff for sure!
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: BobW on May 15, 2008, 03:57:00 PM
mmgrode:

.......and you are studying to be what?????

thanks for the answer   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: Bob G on May 15, 2008, 04:28:00 PM
Chupacabra
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: laddy on May 15, 2008, 04:31:00 PM
Aldo Leopold is smiling,  I am enjoying this, it's good stuff.
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: mmgrode on May 15, 2008, 04:32:00 PM
I'm pretty sure it's a Scalopus.  Here's a bottom view:

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k297/mmgrode/Tradgang/mole2.jpg)

And a side view:

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k297/mmgrode/Tradgang/mole.jpg)

Matt

BobW- hoping to become a wildlife biologist.
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: OkKeith on May 15, 2008, 04:36:00 PM
Ken,

Its actually common to find bones of more than one species in a single pellet (makes it a booger sort out though). We go through about a thousad pellets a year or so with some of the studies my staff conduct, mostly Barn Owl. I have a couple of diffrent keys for sorting out owl pellet skeletons. I could email them if you are really into it.

If you found several in one place, sounds like a roosting spot. Slip by there early one morning and ya might get a look at who barfed it up!

Good hunting,

OkKeith
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: adkmountainken on May 15, 2008, 05:41:00 PM
OkKeith,
       i would really love anything you could send me as there are MANY owls in the woods i hunt and i enjoy watching, srtudying and learning anything i can about them. in one area by my house i found hundreds of pellets and allmost every one had a mouse skull in it. i did slip in early one morning during deer season and ran smack dab in to what looked to be a whole family, i think there were 5 or 6 owls in a small area of thick pines between 2 fields. i assume they feed primarily on mice and other rodents.
  If i take a couple more pic's of the skull what would help most in identifing? seperate the bottom jaw? what kind of pic?
Thanks to everyone for your input, as i said the little things are special to me and its fun to sort out a small mystery!
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: mike mccaw on May 15, 2008, 05:45:00 PM
Geez a bat,for real!I thought it was a schrew as well.
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: Falk on May 16, 2008, 06:28:00 PM
... just saw this thread and the pic - and what I imidiately thought was: Talpa
This is our european mole and would probably not be the correct genus in your part of the world, but the correct advise was already given above I think.
Title: Re: guess this critter skull (pic)
Post by: mmgrode on May 16, 2008, 09:30:00 PM
Talpidae is the family name of the above mole.  The genus would be Scalopus. Matt