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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: onetone on March 15, 2023, 05:23:44 PM

Title: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 15, 2023, 05:23:44 PM
This fiberglass is on the compression side of an extreme reflex bow. Have shot a couple thousand arrows thru the bow. I have not seen these kind of striations in belly glass before and I’m looking for opinions on this situation. Does this signal eventual failure? There are no cracks or fractures that I can feel with a fingernail.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: kennym on March 15, 2023, 08:47:07 PM
I've never seen anything like that.  Almost looks like the resin popped out of the glass strands.

Both limbs look same?
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Mad Max on March 15, 2023, 09:54:47 PM
Is it smooth?

 :dunno:
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Longcruise on March 15, 2023, 11:26:14 PM
Couldi  it be in the finish?
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 15, 2023, 11:45:04 PM
Is it smooth?


Yes it is smooth. I don’t feel any variation in the surface when I draw a fingernail across it.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 15, 2023, 11:52:21 PM
I've never seen anything like that.  Almost looks like the resin popped out of the glass strands.

Both limbs look same?
Yes both limbs look the same.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Jeff Freeman on March 16, 2023, 02:07:51 AM
Looks like glass that is sanded both sides
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 16, 2023, 02:17:17 AM
It’s Gordon’s glass sanded one side only - the glued side.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Jeff Freeman on March 16, 2023, 06:56:55 AM
It is black glass not clear over dark wood?
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 16, 2023, 11:39:22 AM
Jeff, yes it is black glass … or was!
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Jeff Freeman on March 16, 2023, 11:50:31 AM
🤔
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Jeff Freeman on March 16, 2023, 11:51:29 AM
Have you sanded  it down and cleared it yet?
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 16, 2023, 02:04:29 PM
Jeff - sorry I don’t understand your question. Please explain
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Jeff Freeman on March 16, 2023, 02:22:53 PM
Never mind if it's showing that before it's sanded and cleared. It'll still show it after it's been sanded and cleared.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Mad Max on March 16, 2023, 03:11:27 PM
Is it like that all the way out, levers and riser?
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Jeff Freeman on March 16, 2023, 03:24:39 PM
Mad Max. I was just thinking the same thing as it's showing it all the way out or just in the main big hard bending areas?
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 16, 2023, 04:17:20 PM
Mark and Jeff - the effect is concentrated in the area of maximum compression. Runs an 1 1/4” past the end of the fade toward the riser and about 6 1/2” from the end of fade toward the limb tips (both limbs the same). Doesn’t look so extreme in the pic below when seen in scale and not so close up. Other pic shows the light reflected off the surface of the affected area. As you can see there are no stress caused cracks or imperfections visible on the surface of the glass.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Jeff Freeman on March 16, 2023, 04:22:45 PM
You may have pushed it to the limit.bmaybe try carbon.  You are definitely trying to get to Boldly Go. A star trek saying. Lots of opposite direction bending 😲 JF
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Mad Max on March 16, 2023, 06:32:01 PM
It could be just the finish, what did you use?
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 16, 2023, 07:51:45 PM
Shellac sealer and multiple coats of TruOil. I don’t think it is the finish but I have been wrong a couple of times. Just seems deeper to me.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Kirkll on March 16, 2023, 09:01:22 PM
Shellac sealer and multiple coats of TruOil. I don’t think it is the finish but I have been wrong a couple of times. Just seems deeper to me.

Shellac with TruOil?..... I'm thinking that's the problem.... Try sanding it lightly with 220 until you get the finish off , and hit it with some polyurethane, or Helmsman spar varnish. I'll bet that it disappears.  Kirk
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Mad Max on March 16, 2023, 11:16:42 PM
Shellac sealer and multiple coats of TruOil. I don’t think it is the finish but I have been wrong a couple of times. Just seems deeper to me.

Shellac with TruOil?..... I'm thinking that's the problem.... Try sanding it lightly with 220 until you get the finish off , and hit it with some polyurethane, or Helmsman spar varnish. I'll bet that it disappears.  Kirk

X2 on the sand and refinish
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Bowjunkie on March 17, 2023, 05:00:11 AM
Show them the unbraced and fully drawn pictures that you posted on the other site. It may change some opinions.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 17, 2023, 01:44:16 PM
Ok will post some more pics. Didn’t before because these guys have seen them previously. Gents I appreciate all the thoughts and suggestions. I’ll keep shooting this bow to see how the experiment plays out. Also will make sure the defect is not just in the finish, which is TruOil on the glass w/ shellac used on the wood only to fill grain and seal before the finish.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Kirkll on March 17, 2023, 03:29:03 PM
Shellac is great for a sanding sealer on wood, but doesn't work well on glass for some reason. i've never mixed those two before.

Only time i ever used tru oil on a bow was on snake skin limb finish because its soft and flexible. I could see using it on a wood bow too though... But.... The true oil is a high maintenance finish. It scratches easily, But it polishes out nicely with steel wool again.    .002 cents
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Mad Max on March 17, 2023, 08:31:43 PM
"While nothing will stick to waxed (amber) shellac, the dewaxed stuff is practically a miracle finish.  EVERYTHING (practically) sticks to dewaxed shellac, and it sticks to everything."
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 17, 2023, 11:08:12 PM
Yes I make my own de-waxed shellac as I need it. Fills the grain, dries fast and is easy sanding.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: EvilDogBeast on March 18, 2023, 05:18:51 PM
A bit late to this post, my apologies.  Those white streaks indicate matrix (resin) failure.  The white you see in the picture is basically glass fiber areas where the resin has disbonded from the fibers.  While it sounds horrifying, you are most likely fine for quite a while (might not ever break honestly).  You will see a full failure coming a long way off as it gets whiter and fibers start to lift.  Just keep an eye out to see if it changes.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 18, 2023, 07:59:03 PM
EDB - thanks for that info! Rings true. I seem to recall your work involves using composites?
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: EvilDogBeast on March 18, 2023, 10:24:48 PM
Yes sir, aircraft composite manufacturing and repair
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 18, 2023, 11:30:05 PM
 :thumbsup:  :thumbsup: I will continue shooting this bow to see how it holds up and will watch for further changes in the glass.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: EvilDogBeast on March 19, 2023, 02:18:33 AM
Just monitor it every few shots for the next few months and compare it to the pictures after every session.  No changes after a few hundred more arrows and you are probably relatively safe.  I have a store-bought recurve with the same marks on it that I've been shooting for a long time.
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Mad Max on March 19, 2023, 11:56:54 AM
Damon Howatt Hunter 1991 I think

(https://i.imgur.com/91QnKNw.jpg)
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 19, 2023, 12:37:42 PM
Mark - Wow, that’s a real gray hair!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Mad Max on March 19, 2023, 12:58:29 PM
Mark - Wow, that’s a real gray hair!  :thumbsup:

I'm sure yours will get there too :tongue:
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: onetone on March 19, 2023, 01:58:33 PM
 :shaka:
Title: Re: What about these tracks in fiberglass?
Post by: Kirkll on March 20, 2023, 12:24:09 AM
Well at least with black glass you can paint it and clear coat it …. It’s really sad when it happens to clear glass and it ruins the wood veneer look.    Kirk