Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: goose_ on March 07, 2023, 07:23:36 AM
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I’ll preface this tuning talk by saying that I’m left handed. Initially after getting a trad bow again I used the three rivers spine calculator to find an arrow. Set up: 70s bear Kodiak mag 48 lbs at 28. Brace height 8 inches. I’m drawing about 29 when my back tension is on. The arrow I settled on was a carbon express predator 2 in 4560, 100 grain insert and 125 point.(400 spine) In bareshafting, I moved up to 150, and I’m still getting my bare shaft nock left, but point of impact is right on. So my question is, move up to 175 of leave well enough alone? Maybe go down to 3050 (500) spine?
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Arrow length? When you say you moved up to 150, are you saying you went from a 125grn head to a 150grn head?
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What is the length of your bow? I was wondering if it was one of the short Kodiaks, which might be difficult to tune, particularly for someone with a 29” draw length.
Normally, your setup would call for a .500 spine shaft with a 125-150 grain point. However, .400 spine shafts with a heavier point and longer length might work. I would start tuning them full length, if I were you, and try 175 or 200 grain points. You want to be sure you're starting to tune with a true weak and not a false weak. Right now, your shaft is showing stiff for a LH shooter, but it is always nice to be able to find a true weak shaft and then back off from it a little.
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30 inch shaft, uncut. 52 inch Kodiak mag. Yes, I went up to 150 grain point.
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I'm not sure that you will ever be able to bare shaft tune a 52” bow that you draw to 29”. You may just have to observe the flight of fletched arrows and stop when it is “good enough.”
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I would start with a 32 inch shaft. 29” may be too short. You can cut it down in 1/4” increments until you get it to tune.
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Thanks. These arrows only come in at 30. I might go for a different set up then. Trying to get something ironed out before turkey season. My end goal was to run about a 100 grain insert and a 125 to 150 point. What might be a good place to start? Archery shop near me isn’t the greatest, I order everything from three rivers and Lancaster.
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Thanks. These arrows only come in at 30. I might go for a different set up then. Trying to get something ironed out before turkey season. My end goal was to run about a 100 grain insert and a 125 to 150 point. What might be a good place to start? Archery shop near me isn’t the greatest, I order everything from three rivers and Lancaster.
Is 225-250 weight in front with a 30” .400 shaft what you are already using? I got the impression you were working up to that. If you haven't already tried that, by all means start with a 30” shaft with 250 grains up front and see what happens. That might give you a weak response, and then you would be home free. If it still gives you a stiff response, then try .500.
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Yes, .400 spine (4560) with 100 grain insert and 150 grain tip.
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Sure seems like you should be getting a weak spine result. Something else may need tweaked aside from the arrow.
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Like what?
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I’m interested on what you come up with as this was similar to my questions in an earlier post. I’m shooting a Martin savannah, drawing last I remember about 52-53 lbs and about 26-27”. I had full length gt traditionals .400 spine using 50 gr inserts and 125 gr heads. So similar. When I got to a shaft of 30.75” from nock throat to end of insert my bare shaft seemed decent at about 12 to 15 yards. The way I read the gt recurve spine chart, I’m suppose to have on border of .400-340. But most saying I’d have better luck with .500s like your being told. Unfortunately I’ll be thinking about this now the whole two weeks I’m away from home. I too would almost like to order some .500s now to try. I wish I could of shot my fletched arrow at 50 yards or more just to see flight before I left. Looking to see what results you get.
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Like what?
Grip, shelf (is it built out or are you getting to much contact), your release (are you creeping forward), maybe you are torquing the string, etc. You could try paper tuning to see what the tears look like. I have been in the compound world most of my life, a bad grip was easily noticeable while paper tuning. With my recurve, I found that same issue. I can really notice it while paper tuning.
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Most bare shaft methods I’m aware of suggest ignoring the nock and going by point of impact. Slightly weak is in theory more forgiving as the arrow will stiffen up with fletch.
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Here is a really good article, scroll down to bare shaft planing…
https://www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning
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I saw it somewhere where guys would put arrow on a table Point Down, push down on the arrow to flex it, and apparently it should bend one way. They mark that. And ensure that’s facing out so when the arrow initially flexes upon shooting, the arrow initially bends away from the riser. Do anyone do that. I was told if it seems like I got weak shafts using these .400s with 175 total point weight and arrows 30 + inches long Is because I may have a false reading. Sure wish I could shoot that now to check again. Must wait two weeks now….
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Most bare shaft methods I’m aware of suggest ignoring the nock and going by point of impact. Slightly weak is in theory more forgiving as the arrow will stiffen up with fletch.
This was kinda my thing... obviously I can put them where they need to be if I do my part right, do I need to split hairs and have them straight in the target?
That being said, I upped to around 300 grains on the front of the .400. that's a 11 grain insert and a 300 grain field point, I'm gonna see how those shoot tomorrow morning, ill be back with pics. I dont think I want to go more than 300 up front, so if this doesn't work I may consider switching shafts.
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Here is a really good article, scroll down to bare shaft planing…
https://www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning
this was very insightful and simple. I will bookmark it. thank you sir.
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For me when bare shafting, I start at 20 yards. When flying good I move back to 25 yards, and usually go back to 30 yards. Generally I hope to end up slightly weak but my last round of bare shafting at 30, point of impact for the bare shaft was grouping with fletch, so in theory I’m a little stiff, but I’ll live with it. I may play a bit with brace height and try and weaken the bare shat a little. I’m a believer too that if bare shaft is groping a little low, a small adjustment in my tie on nock is in order, moving it down.
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If my bare shafts share the same mark as my fletched shafts at 35 yards, regardless of nock position; I access the tuning as golden. My broadhead tipped arrows will fly beautifully well beyond my effective hunting range.
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Moved up to 300 grains total tip weight. Might try 325 and see what that does. Also, after reading the above article I moved back to 18-20 yards. I’d say we’re getting there.
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I like my bare shafts to fly perfect at 20yds, if the feathers get soaked or i lose a feather or whatever happens my arrows always fly perfect, but another thing is if your ever having accuracy issues always break out the bare the bare shaft to see what your doing wrong by the that nock in flight,, it always corrects me if im putting my elbow too high at full draw because it will show a nock high immediately out of the bow.
So your on the right track slow and steady.
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I felt like my results were super inconsistent not only in the spine calculator but in the results on the target. Re set up the bow, new strike plate and rest. Actually took some measurements and learned that the center shot data in the three rivers calculator is off for this bow. When I put the correct measurements in everything looks good there. I’m happy with 300ish grains out front. 20+foc. I plan to shoot 185 grain eskimos out of this set up, they seem to be flying good. The quiver really makes me torque this short bow. If your form is out she tells on you really quick. It’s gonna take some practice but I think I’ll get it.
Also, I read about measuring draw length when you’re actually shooting. That made a difference. Turns out I’m not a 29 inch draw super hero - just a regular Joe with a 28 inch draw. Haha.
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My 2 cents ........... 400 spine ain't happening.
500 is your spine. A 500 cut to 29.75 with 200 grains of target point. You will be able to go a little heavier with your broadhead, say 225 .......... you will get excellent flight set up like this.
Your bare shaft will be right on to at least 20 yards with this, providing your bow is set up correctly.
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200 grain points and 100 grain inserts for a total of 300 grains, that's why I'm running the stiffer shaft.
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I shoot 3 fletched shafts and 2 bare shafts all summer. My target is a plastic golf ball until September. When I hit the ball the same number of times with the bare shafts as with the fletched I'm good. :archer2: