In the past, I have always pooh-poohed the idea of the FMJ. In my mind, why take something that inherently will not bend (carbon) and sandwich it in something that will bend (aluminum). I figured it was just great marketing ploy from Easton so the bowhunter could spend more money on more fragile shafts.
Back in February, I bought a 1/2 dozen Black FMJs for turkey hunting...I figured they are the same grains/inch as my MFX Classics and they don't need to be durable for the birds anyway. So, I started shooting them and was impressed. They stood up to a lot of stump shooting and they are very straight arrows! Plus they match the inside of the blind and look so cool all fletched in black ;) . So then I found a deal on some camo ones and have been shooting them almost exclusively. Still have not bent one stump shooting and purposely trying to hurt them.
So this week, I did a little test...
Full length 340 shafts tune real well out of my 55# Silvertip with 125g heads or my 53-54# Longbows with 260g heads. As there was a Michigan Longbow event this weekend, I was shooting one of the latter this week.
First I screwed on a 260g (135g + 125g steel insert) Judo point and shot it into the rump of one of our "bionic" deer (1/2 steel plate with a hole for the vital). This split the ferrule of the Judo from bottom to top. No harm to the FMJ.
Next I screwed on a 260g Snuffer (160g + 100g steel insert) and shot it into the steel plate. I was amazed at how well both the Snuffer and the FMJ took that hit. As you can see from the pictures the front of the Snuffer was pushed down and there were a couple cracks in the front brazing, but the rear joints held together completely and just reshaped the angle of the rear of the blades. The FMJ was still perfect.
The damage to the Snuffer was so symmetrical, I picked up the Snuffer tipped arrow and shot it into a 20 yard sand pit and it flew perfectly to my aiming point. Test shots were taken at 10 yards. I've put a new Snuffer in the pics for reference.
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/FMJ1.jpg)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/FMJ2.jpg)
On the advice of JC, I used JB Weld for installing the inserts on the carbon shafts. If you were thinking FMJs were too fragile as I have in the past, don't worry about it!
The damage to that broadhead is PROOF that you know how to get arrows flying straight.
When that arrow hit that steel plate it was flying perfectly.
Thanks for posting. :thumbsup:
I picked up some 340's too for their weight and I love them- have to get new arrow holders now for my quivers. Shoot them 31" with 175gr. up front out of my 67# bows.
Those #s listed are at 28", I am drawing 29.5". I shoot the 340s at 30.5" for the 260g heads on the Silvertip.
I am shooting the fmj's as well. 30 3/4 340 shafts with 200 grain heads out of a 61@28 dryad orion. I draw 30". I have broke 2 by hitting stuff at angles and the 200 grain feild tip broke at the shaft. I really like these shafts though.
Do you think they would hold up on a big ole Calhoun county doe? You know how tough they are!
Dave
Used to use 400 FMJ's with my Mathews compound bow and thought they were the best. Sold the compound last fall and picked up a 50lb at 28" Cari-bow Peregrine from Abe Penner this winter, it's a great bow, and I love to shoot it! I draw it to 27 ". I tried Beeman MFX classic's, good arrows... but ended up going back to the FMJ's, camo this time. In my opinion, a superior arrow in many ways.
The arrow at the top of the pic is one of my old compound arrows. A 400 with a 100 grain montec, 28" to the nock, regular 16 grain aluminum insert. It weighs 430 grains, flights are blazer vanes and it shot well at my 29" draw at 61lbs from the Mathews.
But trad archery is way more fun! :)
The middle arrow is a 500 Beeman MFX classic, 125 grain point, It has one 100 grain brass insert and one more behind it cut down to 75 grains and weighs 600 grains total with a 125 Montec. It's cut to 29.5 " to the nock. The flights are 3" gateway shield cuts that I cut down to the shape of a Gateway Razor.
The bottom arrow, my favorite :) , is a 500 camo FMJ cut to 29.5" to the nock. It has two 100 grain brass inserts and a 125 montec. the flights are Gateway Razors. It also weighs 600 grains total.
Obviously I've been reading the high FOC info/research on this site, as well as the info on flight shapes.
The 500 FMJ's fly like darts, are quiet across the shelf and easy to remove from a target. They're as tough as any arrow that I've seen. The small vanes are more than up to the task of steering the Montec's at any distance I'm going to shoot from (0-30 yards), so long as things are in tune.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd92/Downsouth204/FMJsBeemanMFXclassics007.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd92/Downsouth204/FMJsBeemanMFXclassics008.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd92/Downsouth204/FMJsBeemanMFXclassics010.jpg)
Not sure whats up with photobucket, I resized the images to 600 by 480 and they came up full size. Moderator's please feel free to resize or delete if needed!
Downsouth,
How much you got in the front of those??
I am going to buy arrows soon adn am wonderin, between the FMJs or the nano shafts. I shoot 400 axis right now.
J
Dave,
I will spluge and bring an extra dozen for THOSE does...we'll see how many we can get to roll on the FMJs for testing purposes ;) . Those things are almost bulletproof!
Yah, they did good for me.Killed this bull at 30yrds w/ a 200gr ace. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/overbo/ELK035-1.jpg[/IMG]]PHOTOBUCKET (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/overbo/ELK035-1.jpg) (http://photobucket[img)
J-Dog, I used two 100 grain brass inserts in each arrow, (one is just glued in for added weight)plus a 125 grain Montec or field point, which gives me 325 up front. A nice clean way of adding weight to the front of an arrow! The extra insert doesn't seem to affect spine much and may even function like an internally footed shaft. Guess time will tell.
Sounds like a good idea? I was wandering as seeing what I thought was an extra insert. Thanks for getting my thinking wheels turning! When I work up my new arrows I will have to gove it a shot.
J
I am working on a new project and I have been doing some thinking, and during my search this thread came up. I find it VERY interesting.
Do anybody else have similar rusults as to the durability of the FMJ shafts? Or have you had different results than those that have been stated here?
I used to foot all my Axis/MFX/FMJ arrows. Switching from the Easton epoxy to the JB Weld has made that a waste of time.
If your looking for a heavy shaft the FMJ Dangerous Game shafts are 17gr/inch hard to find better shaft. I use the DGFMJ 240 with 300gr up from you have a 900+gr arra that will penetrate the biggest of critters.
I have been using the JB Weld since Steve told me about it. Its all i use in my own personal arrows now. Stuff is great I think it absorbs a little more of the shock of the impact.
Great post Steve I have FMJs in The works now for me and a set of 500s for a customer because of this post great stuff bud
I like it. Welcome to the dark side Steve O
I was shooting FMJ when I was first having touble with carbon arrows splitting and find them to be more durable than non footed carbons. They also had the attributes of being straighter and more consistent in spine than almost all carbons when I started shooting them. The only thing I can think of is that straightness may slowly degrade as it does in an alloy shaft but fmjs are fairly thick walled and I have not yet experienced it yet.
QuoteOriginally posted by bigbadjon:
I was shooting FMJ when I was first having touble with carbon arrows splitting and find them to be more durable than non footed carbons. They also had the attributes of being straighter and more consistent in spine than almost all carbons when I started shooting them. The only thing I can think of is that straightness may slowly degrade as it does in an alloy shaft but fmjs are fairly thick walled and I have not yet experienced it yet.
I have FMJ's that literally have thousands of shots on them, and they are still straight. I am a cnc machinist and checked them with a Starrett indicator and they are still right on. I think the thick carbon core will not let the straightness degrade like a pure aluminum arrow. just my .o2
First I've heard about the JB Weld. I love FMJ's and will try the JB. Thanks Steveo!
Will :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by FerretWYO:
I like it. Welcome to the dark side Steve O
:saywhat: Randy, this thread is 5 years old...I am the KING of the "Dark Side" :goldtooth:
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve O:
QuoteOriginally posted by FerretWYO:
I like it. Welcome to the dark side Steve O
:saywhat: Randy, this thread is 5 years old...I am the KING of the "Dark Side" :goldtooth: [/b]
Hahahahaha Classic!! Thxs for the infor the info steve o your a Goodman!!
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve O:
QuoteOriginally posted by FerretWYO:
I like it. Welcome to the dark side Steve O
:saywhat: Randy, this thread is 5 years old...I am the KING of the "Dark Side" :goldtooth: [/b]
Hahahahaha Classic!! Thxs for the infor the info steve o your a Goodman!!
Mike I shoot .340 spine FMJ's out of my LXR which you may be familiar with...I started with three and after shooting them a lot into all sorts of things I finally bent one some which still did not cause it to shoot badly...I just happened to notice when I rolled it...the other two are still my primary hunting arrows...I shot both of them into the ground this fall shooting at grouse with no harmful effects...I use VPA two blades and they mesh nicely with great alignment...I am a devoted FMJ shooter
DDave
Sorry doublepost
Thanks for this report Steve O. I have a dozen and have only cut one to length. It was a trial in case I wanted a different "rain arrow" with vanes in my quiver.
I thought the same thing that they couldn't be as tough as the carbon. I figured the aluminum outer tube was just a way to make carbon take a bend.
I'll consider these arrows a little differently now.
Steve, I want to be sure I understand - you glue the inserts into the front of the shafts with JB Weld? I can easily see doing that for gluing the BH insert into the BH (metal-to-metal). But the JB Weld does a good job of joining the aluminum (or other metal) insert to the carbon shaft? If so that's a really cool use for JB Weld.
John, I have been using JB weld for gluing inserts into my carbons for about 15yrs. Maybe more. Very few have ever pulled out and I can usually determine that my prep was poor. the shafts that I prep thoroughly have never had an issue.
CTT
I use the JB Weld for my inserts on regular Axis shafts. I started doing this after reading the post by Steve O and the difference between it and the H.I.T. epoxy is unbelievable. Since switching I have not had an insert push in the shaft after impacting a hard object. I have found I still need to foot my shaft because if it impacts a hard object at an angle it will actually bend the threaded part of the tip/broadhead adapter cracking the edge of the raw carbon, but the insert doesn't budge. I'm confident if I was shooting the FMJ instead of the all carbon Axis the footing would not be necessary.
Any special prep needed for using the JB weld.
I will slightly score the inside of the shaft with a dental pick or sandpaper rolled up. I like some bite for the epoxy.
Then clean very well with denatured alcohol.
I do the same for the inserts
Mix up the JB and COVER ALL PARTS. Push in the insert and twist/turn/push-in/pull-out until well covered and let it dry.
Done.
QuoteOriginally posted by John Havard:
Steve, I want to be sure I understand - you glue the inserts into the front of the shafts with JB Weld? I can easily see doing that for gluing the BH insert into the BH (metal-to-metal). But the JB Weld does a good job of joining the aluminum (or other metal) insert to the carbon shaft? If so that's a really cool use for JB Weld.
Yes John, HIT insert to shaft. I clean the inside of the shaft and the inserts. I take a stainless steel brush and spin it inside the shaft to rough it up, then clean the inside of the shaft again.
Light coat of JB Weld on the stepped part of the insert, spin,push in to about 1/8" of flush, wipe off excess, the plunge to proper depth with HIT tool.
Lay FLAT on the table (so inserts don't slide!) and let cure. I leave the unused mixture of JB out so I know when it is totally cured.
ROCK solid.
I do sometimes use it for the point to insert glue joint, but only when I am sure I will not be changing weight. I think it is not reversible.
Chuck types faster :D
I typically use denatured alcohol as well. On the metal stuff I pour it in the female portion of the point and shake it up , pour it out, then light it up to burn off all the impurities. I use some needle nose for the inserts to do the same.
I use hot melt to glue inserts in mine...never had an issue and a bit of heat on a long field point lets me easily pull or turn inserts...I also hot melt glue in my VPA Penetrators...makes for a very unitized shaft/broad head mating
DDave
I have a few FMJ's and they do shoot nice- never hunted with them yet.
With 145 grain heads, they are hard to pull out of my bag target- the back of the heads catch as they stick out wider than the shaft. Are there done field points that are better for skinny shafts?
Gary
There are 9/32 field points for skinny shafts. I use them for my Axis arrows. I use the 145 grain ones. Is FMJ same outside diameter? I do not know that answer.
There are 9/32 field points for skinny shafts. I use them for my Axis arrows. I use the 145 grain ones. Is FMJ same outside diameter? I do not know that answer.
I use golf shaft epoxy, for gluing the heads of the "woods" to the carbon golf shafts. I figured hitting a golf ball (shock) is similar to an arrow hitting a hard object. Only downside is it is not reversible. I melted a carbon trying.
Shot FMJs in my wheelie days a couple of years ago. Managed to bend a couple when not getting a pass through and the deer rolling on them. Also recall splitting the shaft of at least one when contacting a rock after getting a pass through. Didn't use JB so if I had might not have happened. Can only speculate though. Other than that, I liked them.
I blew the ends off of two of them when I first got mine. Split the shafting about three inches up. I Stopped stumping with them after that and will not again until I foot them. I find them to be not much better than most other Premium arrows including xx75 and xx78 aluminums which are bunches cheaper and straighter to start.. They are sure cool looking arrows though. Now I have to get some inserts and fix these up.
God bless, Steve
I really like the diameter and straightness of the shafts, but I too have had trouble with shafts splitting from the points going into the shaft while stumping. I think the A/C/C is a more durable arrow, but at even a greater price.