Post by: blacktailchaser on December 29, 2022, 06:12:39 PM
Post by: Bisch on December 29, 2022, 06:29:05 PM
Bisch
Post by: Flbowhunter on December 29, 2022, 06:32:57 PM
Post by: KentuckyWolf on December 29, 2022, 06:44:43 PM
This point was different for different styles of bow….recurve vs longbow, etc.
Post by: 5deer on December 29, 2022, 06:45:10 PM
Post by: BUCKY on December 29, 2022, 06:51:43 PM
Post by: Friend on December 29, 2022, 08:51:06 PM
Post by: McDave on December 29, 2022, 09:00:50 PM
so i know there can be too much arrow weight..and i want to make this simple...i just got a new bear grizzly at 45#...and i have been shooting a 612 grain arrow out of it with no trouble...out to 20yrds...SO,i was thinking to myself am i pushing the bow to much is the arrow to heavy...even though it shoots fine or at least it looks fine..thanks for the help...
You're definitely not pushing the bow too much. The bow loves all that weight. What would damage the bow is too little weight. The only question is, can you hit your target?
Post by: JamesD on December 29, 2022, 09:18:07 PM
Post by: mnbwhtr on December 30, 2022, 09:52:54 AM
Post by: JamesD on December 30, 2022, 09:58:45 AM
I am shooting Douglas fir arrows from Surewood shafts. Depending upon the bow, I am shooting spines of 65/70, 70/75, and 75/80. These arrows will show up unfinished at 390 - 510 grains. Once finished, between woody weight and broadhead, I will have between 250 and 300 grains up front. I have a 30.5” draw, so 19% FOC is about the best I can do with wood arrows. If I were shooting carbon arrows in a 340 or 400 spine, I would be high 600s to low 700s in weight.
Post by: Pat B on December 30, 2022, 10:46:41 AM
Post by: dnovo on December 30, 2022, 01:15:54 PM
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on December 30, 2022, 01:25:09 PM
Post by: GCook on December 30, 2022, 02:46:10 PM
In any machine there is a point where you have more machine than the work or visa versa. If you have more work than the machine can handle sooner or later the machine breaks down. Now the bow may not break down but you dang sure aren't being efficient with it ifn' ya over load it.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 30, 2022, 03:52:22 PM
Post by: Bill from NJ on December 30, 2022, 05:39:00 PM
Easton Axis Traditional 400
Arrow Length 27"
Point weight: 225 grains
Insert weight: 175 grains
Total weigh up front: 400 grains
Nock weight w/wraps: 15 grains
Leon Stewart 45# R&D 62" longbow @ 28"
Actual draw length 27"
Arrow Total Weight (grains) Actual weight; Low 700 grains
Arrow Specific Weight (GPP) 16.3
Front of Center (FOC) % 27.5
Arrow Speed (ft/sec) 142.6
Arrow Energy (ft-lbs). 31.3
Last deer taken 2 weeks ago, arrow blew through deer completely at a very tight quarter away shot, and the arrow lodged into the dirt.
I am very satisfied with my heavy weight set up, I feel extremely confident taking either deer or Black Bear at my personal favorite distance of 20 yards or less.
I enjoy getting very close to the quarry.
Post by: A Lex on January 02, 2023, 07:02:53 AM
I've been using arrows around that 13 to 13-1/2 GPP for a long time, and they suit me and the way I shoot just fine. They are very quiet, and I've never really found their trajectory to be an issue at my normal hunting type ranges.
I've even gone a fair bit heavier a few times with no dramas either.
So I agree wholeheartedly with what Bisch said, "If it tunes well, and you can live with the trajectory, it’s not too heavy".
Go hunting and enjoy :thumbsup:
Best
Lex
Post by: fisherick on January 02, 2023, 09:53:37 AM
Post by: JamesD on January 02, 2023, 11:01:21 AM
https://tmuss.tripod.com/shotfrompast/bear.htm
Post by: Terry Green on January 04, 2023, 02:31:17 PM
There is a point of diminishing returns with arrow weight. There is a section in one of the “Traditional Bowyers Bible”…..done remember which one. It’s a point where adding more weight doesn’t really increase momentum, it basically flat lines, while speed and thus trajectory drop like a rock.
This point was different for different styles of bow….recurve vs longbow, etc.
Yes, there is a window where the perfect weight and speed can be.
Here's a little formula if you want to run some numbers on different weights out of you bow to find the perfect combo.
Hopefully this post will clear the waters...
These 3 bows were delivered to me back in 2004 to celebrate Tradgang's 1st Anniversary. I have been hunting with the 60 & 70#ers ever since, and Rob has been hunting with the 50#er since then till about 2 years ago when he sent it to me so I could use it in my golden years. (not there yet :laugh:)
So, all made at the same time, by the same bowyer, all the same model, all the same lengths, all the same materials, all the same draw lengths. All also use the same arrow, weight was increased for the 60#er by adding aquarium tubing and head weight change, and the 70#er with weed eater line inside the aquarium tubing and different head weight. All arrow weights were right at 9.5 grains per #, and arrow speed was right at 185-187FPS with all 3 bows. Although the speed might be relevant to the hunter, it is irrelevant in the test as long as all 3 are very close to the same, as well as arrow speed.
Here are the numbers I ran on them back then..... Kinetic Energy and Momentum.
50# - KE = 37.99 - MO = .411
60# - KE = 45.59 - MO = .493
Difference in Percentages - KE = 27.795 % - MO = 19%
This is a very significant increase of power in the two bows.
*************************************************************
50# - KE = 37.99 - MO = .411
70# - KE = 53.19 - MO = .575
Difference in Percentages - KE = 55.804 % - MO - 39.903 %
This is a HUGE increase in the power of the two bows.
Momentum is really the most important number, and its right at a 40% Increase.
So, if the OP old_goat2 went from 45# limbs to 65# limbs, he would expect very close to those same percentages in increase of power.
:campfire:
Post by: Terry Green on January 04, 2023, 02:44:16 PM
:campfire:
Post by: KentuckyWolf on January 04, 2023, 10:59:32 PM
So doing this from memory.
Momentum is the number we want to pay attention to. Kinetic energy is heavily influenced by speed. This is based on a difference in how you calculate KE vs MO. Compounders, riflemen and speed junkies like KE. However, in real world applications, in flesh and blood, momentum is a more reliable indicator of terminal performance. Chasing speed while slinging light arrows is why you see poor terminal performance in some “tech” bow setups. Guys shooting 70lbs at 29in draws and can’t reliably get a pass through on 100lb does…..weird right? Ha.
The relationship between arrow weight and momentum was sigmoid. As arrow weight went up, so did momentum initially. However, eventually you seen an inflection point when the gains in momentum as arrow weight goes up decreases to the point that additional arrow weight returns meniscal increases in momentum. The relationship now is almost flat.
The relationship between arrow weight was mostly linear and negative. No real surprises…lighter arrows are fast and heavier arrows are slower. At progressively higher arrow weights, past the momentum infection point, speed is lost with out a meaningful increase in momentum.
The happy medium…was to be around that momentum inflection point. Getting most of the possible momentum out of the bow (based on draw weight, design, etc). While retaining enough arrow speed to have a reasonable trajectory.
Post by: Terry Green on January 05, 2023, 09:56:48 AM
Post by: KentuckyWolf on January 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PM
Post by: JamesD on January 05, 2023, 12:30:47 PM
Post by: Terry Green on January 05, 2023, 12:32:05 PM
And yes James, seen that many times in clips.
A Recipe for Disaster.
Post by: JamesD on January 05, 2023, 12:56:25 PM
43# (at my draw length of 30.5") reflex deflex long bow
10 GPP = 187 FPS (estimated from Stu Miller spine chart), 435 grains, and a momentum factor of .33
12 GPP = 163 FPS, 521 grains, and a momentum factor of .38 (15% greater than 10 GPP)
15 GPP = 148.5 FPS, 652 grains and a momentum factor of .43 (30% greater than 10 GPP)
16.7 GPP (the actual setup I am shooting) = 142.2 FPS, 725 grains, and a momentum factor of .45 (36% greater than 10GPP)
Post by: RIVERWOLF on January 05, 2023, 03:36:21 PM
It's been proven over a lot of years that a wide range of grain weight per bow weight will "get er'done" .....
Papa Bear was in the 9-10 gpp mindset....Pretty solid background to back those thoughts ;)
It's hard to argue Mr. Bear's findings.
I like many of you , have taken a few game animals (and a lot of stumps;) with a wide range of arrow weight. I love 550gr---650 gr out of 50#-55# Montana Longbows....it's just a deadly combo . Good speed, excellent trajectory , powerful PUNCH. This year I was using a 52# @ my 27.5ish draw and 585 gr (total) arrows with NO complaints !
I also tend to keep the same shafts & broadhead combo , and tweak nose weight to get the tune spot on with those components . That always falls in the above spectrum & that's good enough for me in the weight department ;^)) Changing strings , silencers , brace , etc....will determin end weight needed for perfect arrow flight ......
All with a dead quiet bow (effecient usage of the power & proper tune) , and a VERY Tough arrow shaft. I almost always use Easton 2018's , and vary nose weight needed with adapter weight .
So for me....I tend to gravitate toward the heavier end of the advised spectrum for ""my needs" as a bowhunter .
9---15 gpp spectrum seems to be pretty good all around hunting weight . Let your tuned equipment & "your" practice determine what will work BEST for you and your needs........as a Bow-Hunter. :campfire: