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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: buckeyebowhunter on November 29, 2022, 02:38:43 PM
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First off, before I list anything about the laws I'd like to see changed in my state of Ohio, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers although I'm sure I will. I am in no way trying to offend anyone if their opinions or hunting methods are different than mine. This is mostly for fun but I'd like to see what others feel on this subject. In my opinion there are several things in our state that are just flat out dumb or need to be changed.
1) Baiting deer.
I know some game animals are hard to kill without bait, deer are not one of them. You will never convince me that baiting helps our sport in any way, or that it is actually hunting. I think it is the largest problem in our state and I would like to see it dissolved.
2) Incorporate a draw system for Non Resident hunters or at the bare minimum increase the tag prices.
I am all for non resident hunters coming to Ohio. I have met some really cool sportsmen on our public lands here. But I have to be honest it is a damn free for all during the rut here on public lands. Adding a draw system would still allow the serious sportsmen to come here and enjoy our state, but it would also allow residents to actually enjoy the public lands. I own no land myself and I have access to very little private land (a few small parcels) to hunt. I enjoy hunting public lands here, we have some very wonderful public land to hunt but you cannot even find a place to park the first 3 weeks of November.
3) If you have two tags you should be able to fill (potentially) both of them before leaving your treestand.
Ohio is a one buck state. I usually buy two tags to start the season, to either take a buck and a doe or in some seasons two does. You are required to tag one deer before shooting another in the same day. This rule makes no sense to me. Any good sportsman that shoots a deer is going to tag it regardless of if he/she shoots another. He/she is going to tag both of them because he intended to fill both tags when he took those shots. Any dishonest sportsman or redneck isn't going to follow the rule regardless. SO why does it matter? This punishes the honest sportsman that may shoot a doe and then if he sees a buck soon thereafter that he'd like to shoot, he's not allowed to or visa versa.
4) Permanent stands should not be allowed on public lands.
Public lands should be first come first serve situation. Everyone should have a fair shot at a spot, thats why it's called public lands. I sometimes even think trail camera's should not be allowed on public lands even though I have used them from time to time. It would eliminate that sense of "it's my spot" because technically it's everyone's, you just need to be the first on there or at least talk it out with your fellow sportsman if you arrive at the same time. Normally if someone is already there I just drive to another spot.
5) Too many gun seasons.
We have a youth gun season in the middle of Nov, then a weeks long regular gun season, then an extended weekend gun season, then muzzleloader in January. I've always felt like the gun season's were just too much and fell at weird times. For example, I think the youth season is a cool idea, but why right in the middle of the rut and two weeks before our regular season? Just bump it to the two day's before regular season like our turkey youth hunt. Take the kids out bowhunting in November and teach them a lot more about actually hunting.
These are just a few of my thought, and ramblings. I hope to one day see some of these changed for the betterment of our sport here in Ohio. At least the first 4.
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Oh boy. Lol.
Here’s mine
No stands left on public unless handicapped or senior citizen
No cameras on public
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We have a tree stand law here but no one follows it so that’s my reasons. No one removes them or tags them with there info like your supposed too.
Cameras just bug me on public.
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"I have to be honest it is a damn free for all during the rut here on public lands."
Buckeyebowhunter, I have experienced the same thing over many years.
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Have to pass a shooting test to hunt.
If you wound a deer you burn a tag.
Kill all the wolves.
Public land is for hunting only from September through April. No hiking for fun, no off road vehicle trail riding, etc.
Require year round supplemental feed programs. Like ag exemption requirements benefits the land and livestock, a wildlife exemption program benefits wildlife. Not just deer. Wild birds, small game, all of it.
Public land hunters should have to pay a fee to have access. Keeping private land a good place to hunt and manage it costs money. The same with public land. Want to stop people from leaving stands, riding Ebikes and ATVs, you need to fund more law enforcement. That costs money.
I could go on with things like predator control programs and antler/age restrictions and . . .
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Having steel broadheads only in Maryland... a though it probably saves me from a new hobby and a 1,000 cuts lol
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Restricting nonresidents is a double edge sword.
If Kentucky jacked up nonresident prices higher or restricted them to a drawing…it might chase off some of the Ohio and Georgia hunters that invade the state.
Keep in mind …you could be a “nonresident” to others.
Would love for crossbows to go back to being restricted to senior citizens and disabled only.
Would like for them to restrict Turkey hen harvest back to zero. Turkey population could use some help.
A “no button buck” rule would be nice.
Putting modern rifle back in to a 10 day season…instead of what is basically the whole month of November now.
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Kentucky, i get what you're saying.
I'm fine with chasing off some of the non res. A draw system keeps the numbers in check and still allows the serious bowhunters to get their chance, raising prices allows the ODNR to still get their cut which is probably their main concern anyhow.
I know the feeling of being a non res. I've bought points for Iowa for 3 years. And im totally fine with it. Im waiting my turn to hunt another state. Why shouldn't Ohio be any different, it's still a big buck destination state. But with absurdly liberal non res tag system.
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Allow baiting here in the west
I guess we could do food plots like the east…a legal way of baiting is all that is.
I find it funny how food plots, bait piles for bear, and feeders for hogs is no problem in the hunting world…in fact it’s quite acceptable you are congratulated for hunting in that manner but you throw out corn for a Turkey, mule deer, or elk and you are the scum of the hunting world.
There is no no difference in my mind…why it’s not allowed I don’t understand…tomato / tomoto
I could plant a food plot or sit an alfalfa field and be legal…but corn, apples or a mineral lick and I’m the devil
Oh well…doubt it will ever change
I’m not against fair chase or the art of hunting…believe me that trumps all….but in certain situations, I don’t see the harm
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Allow Sunday hunting in PA. I find it completely ridiculous that Sunday hunting is illegal.
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I'm going to respectfully disagree. Baiting and hunting a field edge are simply not the same thing. There's a huge difference between training deer to an area vs. direct spot in front of you. A deer can enter/exit and wander through a field however he pleases.
Be careful what you wish for. It seems as though baiting is the only way to hunt these days here and it's a battle to see who can get the most corn out. I'm sorry but that's not fair chase, and never will be.
I think in regards to bear and hogs it's somewhat different especially in areas where they're considered a Nuisance and SHOULD be removed for safety. I've also read that bears are just about next to impossible to get close to with a bow without bait, deer are tough to get close to but not impossible. I can't speak for either though because I've never hunted bear or hogs.
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Allow spear and atlatls for hunting.
Way regulations are now…I could use any center fire rifle or pistol deer hunting (17hmr…or 380 auto anyone?) but I can’t use a spear or atlatl …which have been used by humans for thousands of years to take game.
Ban air rifles…..yes they let these devices in too…shortly after crossbows. They are probably getting ready to allow “arrow guns” in too. Obviously even crossbow are to much work for some people.
Ban mechanical broadheads. They have an unnecessarily high wounding/loss rate.
Restrict muzzleloader to actual muzzleloaders. No breach loading in line “muzzleloaders”. Iron sighs only…no scopes.
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I appreciate your comments buckeye
I’ll give you an example that I’m referring to
In Utah, if you draw an archery deer (buck only) or elk tag you are allowed to hunt either sex starting the day after the season ends until the end of November within a very shrunken boundary…basically within city limits
Based on your idea of baiting allowed for nuisance or herd control reasons…I think this scenario qualifies…not sure another reason to allow the killing of does/cows in our area long after the season ends
As far as deer wandering thru a field at their leisure…there wouldn’t be a field there in the first place and they prob wouldn’t be in that field if it wasn’t planted just for them (in the case of food plots) … same cake different icing
You call it a field edge…I call it the edge of a large man-made bait pile :)
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Missouri: I'm not a fan of allowing crossbow usage during archery season... that's my biggest complaint.
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I would have never thought that "hunters" would be in favor of so many fees and regulations. Shame on you.
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At some point I think cell cameras will need regulated. In my opinion cell cameras are just as lethal as baiting if used in a certain manner. A guy that can afford to run 30 cell cameras has an extreme and unfair advantage over the deer and also to ppl that can't afford to run them. And yes I do personally know a guy with 30 cell cameras.
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I’d like to see designated areas for running dogs on public land. Most of my hunting is done on NF land in the mountains of E TN and W NC where the bear season runs along with archery deer season. It’s a free for all, and I’ve had dogs refuse to leave under my tree stand or act aggressively while I was still hunting. I don’t have anything against the guys that run dogs, but they should have their own area. Our deer population is the lowest in the state and it only takes a couple of weeks of the hounds running and the deer/bear sightings go way down.
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I'd like to see Pennsylvania go to one antler restriction for the whole state. Right now the western part of the state is three points on an antler NOT counting the browtine when the rest of the state is three points on an antler counting the browtine.
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Here in Michigan, I'd like to see the archery rules go back to disallowing crossbows, without a Dr's note / approval.
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Would like to see a “wanton waste” or “meat salvage” law…similar to Alaska’s.
I could not tell you how many times I have heard from “good ol’boys” that they shot a deer, just cut out the backstraps and then left it lay or dumped the animal.
A few years ago I found giant pile of dead deer just off a road. Reported it to my local conservation officer. I eventually heard back from him. It was all legal. Some guys from out of state came in…shot a boat load of deer..cut out the backstraps…took the heads off the few bucks in the pile…and dumped them. They were all accounted for…all tagged. The CO hated it…but nothing illegal was done.
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Yeah I don't understand wasting good meat like that. Texas has a wanton waste lawnas well and I'm glad they do.
You don't want to eat deer, or at least have somebody to donate them to, don't hunt. Take up golf.
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PA hunter and here are the 2 things I would change and they've already been mentioned in this thread:
1. Sunday hunting. EVERY Sunday, not just the couple days a year they begrudgingly gave us. It's 2022 not 1932. You can go to the Casino, buy beer and booze on Sunday here in PA but not hunt. Ridiculous in my opinion and really limits the time working folks and kids can hunt.
2. One set of antler restrictions state wide. I like the antler restriction rules but it would be nice to have on set of rules statewide.
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I would like to see a traditional only season in my state, and in fact, the traditional bowhunters organization I belong to is working to make that happen.
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Allow Sunday hunting or at least bowhunting in MA.
Change dwelling safety setbacks from 500' to 200' for bowhunting MA.
Allow CC of handguns while bowhunting.
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Reduce the harvest limit here in Ga. Go back to using actual tags and not this online crap the dnr has instituted. Cross bows for elderly and disabled only. just my opinion.
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In Michigan I'd like to see a stiffer penalty for baiting. Right now if someone gets caught it's essentially a slap on the wrist and a small fine which isn't really much of a deterrent for most people. At least around here.
I'd like to see crossbows limited to those who need them. I have no problem whatsoever with someone using one if they need it or if they've passed a certain age, but not everyone should be able to use one.
Currently in the Upper Peninsula crossbows are not allowed during the late archery season. I would like to see this enforced in the lower Peninsula as well. It won't happen and would be almost impossible to enforce, but it would still be better than having essentially a 3 month long gun season.
Finally I would like to see antler point restrictions across the entire state. I know that is a touchy subject with some, and when they were first implemented in our area I was very opposed to them as many were. However it is the BEST thing that had happened to deer hunting in our area. The deer herd, aside from the outrageous amount of doe tags given out, is doing very well and the quality of deer has greatly increased. It hasn't limited my opportunity to harvest deer in the least.
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Going back to physically checking in a deer/turkey.
Yeah…I missing going to check station, interacting with other hunters, and getting to write my name on the board. Apparently, I’m old now????
But seriously, Tele-check and online tag reporting has encouraged dishonesty. People not reporting harvest, reporting it in different day, season or tag. People using their kids for tags.
I get the convenience of it…but I think it does more harm than good.
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In the context of hunting here in my home state of Mississippi. No baiting, no crossbows, elimination of the doe only gun season that runs for over two weeks in the archery season. Eliminate the abomination of a primitive weapon season that allows the 'weapon of choice' on private land ......as long as you buy the primitive weapon license (otherwise known as a muzzleloader license)
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Here in WV we can take 3 deer with archery equipment , but with a gun can take 3 antlerless deer later in the year. I wish they would allow us to use those antlerless tags during archery also.
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Of all the things I may not like, it all boils down to feeling the deer herds are managed for the benefit of the animals, and not the farmers and the insurance companies.
Plus so many game laws appear to be built on the backs of previous regulations, for example the concept of "party" hunting seems based on old subsistence hunting practices. Why should you get to "tag" an animal you didn't kill, just because you were in the woods that day chasing them around? Ridiculous.
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Of all the things I may not like, it all boils down to feeling the deer herds are managed for the benefit of the animals, and not the farmers and the insurance companies.
Plus so many game laws appear to be built on the backs of previous regulations, for example the concept of "party" hunting seems based on old subsistence hunting practices. Why should you get to "tag" an animal you didn't kill, just because you were in the woods that day chasing them around? Ridiculous.
Go to a Game Commission meeting sometime. Laws, regulations, seasons are changed for even more ridiculous and arbitrary reasons than even not statistically or biologically justified wants of insurance companies.
I’ve seen seasons and bag limits changed based on the opinion of one commissioner….against the advice/recommendations of state biologists. I witnessed crossbows let in after the manufactures wined and dined the commissioners (there was no grassroots push for them to come in). I’ve seen how that “sausage” is made….and it is not pretty.
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Things I'd change for South Carolina hunting:
1) Sunday hunting on public land
2) being able to hunt hogs with a bow during small game season on public land (just like in GA)
3) hunters' orange is stupid
Blaine
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In Wisconsin:
If you are born and breathing you can buy a license and legally hunt. I love seeing pictures of the 1 year old who shot their buck of a lifetime. Ok if you haven't picked up on the sarcasm, you should have, it's pretty thick. I think kids should be old enough to take a class and be responsible before carrying any weapons in a legal hunting capacity.
Like Kentucky wolf, I'd love to see check stations again but I think that's unrealistic.
Also, itcwould be nice to have more game wardens. All the money should not be pocketed by paper pushing elected politicians. Right now hunting season is the wild west. At this rate they may as well get rid of wardens and throw away rule books and do away with laws.
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Kid propped up for the “hero” pic with a trophy animal …and a 300 win mag (you know would kick them into the next county) or a compound (taller than the kid is even at 32 inches axial to axial, with arrows that would spine out correctly if the bow had a 70 lbs draw weight).
I’ve see way to many pics like that on Facebook each fall.
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Unless there's a problem with herd numbers, get rid of buck-only days. There are two counties here in Virginia that added an early and late antlerless only season to manage CWD, but they retained the buck-only rule for most of the rest of the season. If they want me to kill more does, why can't I do it in October and November when I'm already making time to get out and hunt? I'm happy to kill does whenever, so don't tie my hands.
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Toss the "antler restrictions" in the Catskill Mountains....
Mother Nature, grows big bucks. Not people, nor the Department of Environmental Conservation.
There are 2 reasons why this law was enacted....
The amount of state land in the Catskills, and the fact that it is 2 hours from New York City.
Years ago, Opening Day, was on a Monday. There would be a mass migration of hunters coming north, for Opening Day. They would hit town, raise hell Sat & Sun, hunt Monday and shoot the first legal thing they could.
Then, they were headed back to NYC, Monday night. Never to be seen, for the rest of the season....
Now, between the Saturday Opener, and the "antler restrictions" you gave them a reason, to HANG AROUND!!!
Might piss a few off, but QDM is a farce!!! It only works on private land, where you can control the hunting, so you only shoot age class bucks. AND, only if you can convince your hunting neighbors, to do the same!!
Letting a spike walk, so you can shoot him at 2 1/2yrs, is not going to grow older and bigger bucks.
A spike in the freezer, means a filled tag, and a chance for another buck, to get a year older... :thumbsup:
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Toss the "antler restrictions" in the Catskill Mountains....
Mother Nature, grows big bucks. Not people, nor the Department of Environmental Conservation.
There are 2 reasons why this law was enacted....
The amount of state land in the Catskills, and the fact that it is 2 hours from New York City.
Years ago, Opening Day, was on a Monday. There would be a mass migration of hunters coming north, for Opening Day. They would hit town, raise hell Sat & Sun, hunt Monday and shoot the first legal thing they could.
Then, they were headed back to NYC, Monday night. Never to be seen, for the rest of the season....
Now, between the Saturday Opener, and the "antler restrictions" you gave them a reason, to HANG AROUND!!!
Might piss a few off, but QDM is a farce!!! It only works on private land, where you can control the hunting, so you only shoot age class bucks. AND, only if you can convince your hunting neighbors, to do the same!!
Letting a spike walk, so you can shoot him at 2 1/2yrs, is not going to grow older and bigger bucks.
A spike in the freezer, means a filled tag, and a chance for another buck, to get a year older... :thumbsup:
QDM is biologically and ecologically sound. It would work even on public land; and it has in other places. The problem likely lies in other aspects of the regulations. I bet NY has a lot of bucks wearing doe tags ( legally and illegally), a lot of public land deer being tagged as private, etc.
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Have check stations again and do away with crossbows and baiting
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Sorry, Wolf... I have to disagree
This has been in place, for the last 20 years. Bucks aren't any bigger.
As for bucks wearing doe tags... wrong again. On a preference point system.
You have to be turned down once, to get a point. Get a doe tag about every other year.
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QDM isn't just about big bucks. It's about maturity in the herd, a healthier herd. The science is proven. You can talk all you want about money and politics. If you allow bucks to get some age and you get better breeding percentages. You allow doe to mature and you have more successful fawn crops.
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I posted this earlier then removed it because i didn't want to seem like i was bashing bait hunters, even though i am against it. However, since you guys brought up QDM, i feel that without bait many younger bucks would have a much better chance at survival and reaching maturity. Unfortunately our hunting culture has pretty much turned into a "buck or nothing" mindset. And many guys i know won't even shoot a doe or consider it. These young bucks that become trained to come into corn piles don't even stand a chance.
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I wish we could substitute a bow for a muzzleloader
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No cameras after season starts.
No crossbows till the last 2 weeks of bow season.
On the public land talk about leaving stands. I heard if you put up a ladder stand on public ground it becomes public also. If someone is in the stand you put there. Its tough stuff. He has the right. Sooo
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Actually baiting allows you to use trail cam pics to age bucks, determine bucks that need time to mature, bucks that have less than desirable characteristics like no brow tines, etc you may want to remove from breeding. Having a list of shooter/non-shooter bucks makes it easier to make prior decisions on what is a good decision for the herd and for what each individual needs time wise to reach maturity and pass on genetics.
I think most younger hunters are brown it's down. Regardless of a bait pile or not. Heck I was. That's part of the process. Go to any hunters safety course and you will be taught about the progression of what hunters consider success. When you're young you look to get your limit by any means. Then you get more selective of means and what you shoot. Older folks tend to mentor more, seek out certain animals. Some it may be a buck they have history with. Another younger bucks and doe are better table fare to.
I also think in high hunter density and low deer density areas brown and down is more prevalent because that might be the only buck you see. Especially public hunting areas.
I won't begin to say baiting is as difficult as other styles of hunting. But it is widely accepted, legal and embraced across much of the country. And many of those places seem to have healthy deer densities.
The reality is there are way more hunters than land for them and game on that land in far to much of our country.
That's not gonna change and only getting worse.
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I live in Ohio and also have a cabin in Cameron county PA,Sunday hunting would be a welcome change in PA especially for us out of staters. No crossbows in archery season, no baiting in Ohio and another thing in Ohio is just access, I live in the northwest part of the state and there is only one public land property within a two hour drive of my house. As I type this I'm sitting on a state owned property that only allows hunting if you know a guy who knows a guy which is wrong but man it's good hunting. I used to draw a controlled hunt every other year especially for archery and now the odds are outrageous. Access is still the hardest part about Ohio I think .
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Never understood the legality of banning Sunday hunting…given the separation of church and state (Not all people or religions worship on Sunday, not everyone worships in a church, etc). Seems like something a state hunter organization should lobby to change or challenge in court.
Side note:
Never understood the legality of “dry” counties in southern states post prohibition, or bans on Sunday sales.
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Maybe its the game warden day off.LOL
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Gcook,
I appreciate and understand your response. But a well placed trail camera over a scrape or heavily used travel corridor would do the same thing. The whole "I'm just using bait to inventory my deer" doesn't have much merit in my eyes.
There actually aren't a lot of states that allow baiting, or if they do it is with stipulations such as removing the bait 10 days before hunting season. Ohio does not allow turkey hunting with bait, so why are we allowed to with deer? Most other midwest states require bait and mineral sites to be gone before the start of hunting season. I believe Kansas allows baiting.
Also I agree with what you are saying about the progression and maturing a young hunter goes through. No problem with youngsters having the "brown and down" mentality, but a young hunter that blasts a 150" buck over a bait pile during gun season has learned very little about the actual process of a hunt, and I'm not saying that I wouldn't be thrilled if a youngster shoots a big buck, but what do they have to look forward to as a hunter if they can just throw up their bait pile each year and kill a big buck? If that is all they're learning about the process of a hunt then that is what concerns me about the future of hunting.
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Baiting deer is allowed in these states: Arizona, Hawaii, Kansas, Nevada, New Hampshire, Mississippi, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, Utah, and Washington.
We could argue all day long and not change each other's minds. The reality is though Texas has a very large and healthy deer population and we don't have the agricultural production to support it like Midwest corn and soybean states. We grow deer by keeping them fed and healthy.
My personal property this year has a fawn crop specifically because we spent thousands of dollars to maintain water and supplemental fees during a severe drought. YMMV but like social media or opiates it can be used for productive things and misused.
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New York does not allow baiting.
BUT, you can plant a "food plot" :dunno:
NYSDEC says the "food plot" is "agricultural" :saywhat:
You can buy a farm, and plant crops, and just leave them in the field for the deer to eat.
The farmer next door, needs his crops for income, and can't afford to just sit and let the deer eat them.
Long story short... The rich man, bought a "deer farm"....
I said before, QDM only works, where you can control the hunting, to shoot only age class bucks.
As Gary stated above, baited trail cameras, allow you to target age class bucks, and let others grow older.
Back to the 2 farmers....
The rich man bought a farm, to kill big bucks....
His neighbor kills any buck that's legal, to fill his freezer...
The buck doesn't know which side of the fence he's on, and your QDM went right out the window!!!
Now, It may seem like I'm against QDM.... I'M NOT!!!
If you are a landowner, and wish to practice QDM on your own land, GO FOR IT!!!
I sincerely wish you the best of luck!!!
What I AM against... Is instituting it in the timbered mountains of the Catskills, 2 hours from NYC.
I AM against is taking this area, and instituting it as a QDM area, while the rest of the state is 1 antler 3" or longer.
They did not apply antler restrictions in western NY, where it is primarily farmland.
They also didn't apply them in the Adirondack Mountains, where it is MILES mostly timbered mountains & swamps.
SO, why the Catskills???
Because there are thousands of acres of state land... Only 2 hours north of NYC
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For one…baiting of or for turkey is illegal in every state.
Baiting for deer is legal throughout the southeastern states and in several midwestern states. Don’t know about the north east….never had any desire to travel that way for hunting. It’s illegal in most of the Rocky Mountain or western states.
There are some places like Texas where if you don’t bait…you might not see much, because within a few hundred yards in just about any direction you pick will be someone else’s bait pile unless you own a giant chunk of land.
QDM is biologically and ecologically sound.
I’m a certified wildlife biologist…I even teach wildlife management. There is a mountain of research, peer reviewed scientific literature, to back up QDM.
If 6m old bucks are not to surviving to 1&1/2 and/or 1&1/2 year old bucks aren’t surviving to 2&1/2, even with antler restriction then ….what is the source of mortality?
Poor habitat quality?
Poor animal body condition going into winter?
poaching?
Harvest numbers higher than population can support?
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Can anyone honestly say they've hunted a field edge and had a deer come and stand exactly where they want them to right in front of them and gnaw on food? I've hunted a lot of corn field edges in this farm country and I can say that I've rarely experienced that. Especially over some of these fields that are 20-30 acres. I can say that I've had deer zig-zag back and forth between rows, wander aimlessly out into the middle of the field with no sort of pattern or rhyme or reason. The farmers did not plant these field with any intention of helping me kill a deer, they were just kind enough to let me hunt their land.
Now, I have learned the terrain features, the wind patterns, and the trails that these deer use to enter the fields in their evening routines. I have set myself up strategically to "hopefully" place one of them in front of me where I can kill it with my recurve. And even then it rarely works out. But that's what I love, I love the chase, the learning involved. That's what I call hunting.
If you have a pile of corn out, in January here, I can GUARANTEE there will be deer on it. I can't say it's the trophy buck you're after, but you are guaranteed to have deer come to it. Can't say the same about a picked corn field that may or may not have anything left once it's been harvested in Oct or November.
Once again, I'm not knocking anyone's tactics. All of this I've been saying is based on my state of OHIO. I know some states are different, situations are different, and people are just different in the way they do things. As long as it's legal I'm okay with it to a degree. But you cannot tell me there is no obvious difference there.
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If you'd read what I'd posted you would know I agree it is not the most challenging way to hunt. Not everyone wants the extra challenges of the way you hunt. Some couldn't physically handle it. Some don't want to put out the effort. Some it's just how they were taught by their dad or mentor.
If you knew anything about me you'd know I hunt on land I own in Missouri and my brother's place west of Syracuse in NY. I'm familiar with tougher ways to hunt and I find them enjoyable and when I do score those animals, regardless of weapon or season, are some of my top hunting memories. Heck, the two I took at KennyM's place in September were as big a thrill as the two animals I took in Africa just a few days before that. I feel what you are saying on it being different ways and not even in the same categories.
Like abortion or any other controversial matters, opinions are based on upbringing, environment, experience and emotion.
Is the reason I've killed one buck, which happened to be a mature buck, in 6 years of owning my property is because it's like shooting fish in a barrel? It's not. It's because we seldom get a mature buck in to our feeder/blind set ups and when we do they don't hang there long and getting a bow shot isn't promised. I've yet to see one this season. Over two months in. But I do see lots of doe, fawn and young bucks that get a pass.
I also remember the first year I owned it and you could walked or drive all through it and maybe see one deer. Where as now we see ten or more deer more often then not. A lot of deer, turkey, pigs, quail, squirrel, rabbit, porcupine and birds get feed during tough times. In Missouri two bucks in twenty years of owning my place there.
I'm not saying you're wrong about it's dumbing down, so to speak, of hunters either. It does not require all of the woodsmanship skills you use to take game. To be successful you work hard at it and I respect that. Though one with those skills is likely to make better decisions in placing stands in locations like natural funnels and with prevailing wind direction in mind making their feeder locations better than the less knowledge around them.. I won't lie and say all of us feeder sitters are that capable though . . .
I'm just saying there are positive aspects of the practice.
With respect I will step out of the discussion. Best of luck with the rest of your season.
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Well said, Gary!!! :clapper:
Thank you, brother...
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Gary, nice post and i respect what you're saying. And agree completely with every word.
I feel as though my argument was twisted somewhat slightly in your post. If you had read my post you would know i was not debating whether or not the way i hunt is the right way or whether or not everyone is capable of hunting that way. Although i do think the woodmanship i described is very important and should be the focus for future hunting generations.
I was simply stating that hunting an agriculture field edge and a corn pile that was dumped is not the same thing.
If you knew anything about me which you don't, i own no land and probably never will. My family never had the money and im a teacher so i don't make a ton of money and neither does my wife. I have access to a couple small parcels that also get hunted by other guys and I mainly hunt public land which you're not allowed to bait on in Ohio anyways. So i really have no choice but to use the tactics you described in your post, whether I'm physically able to or not doesn't really matter. I enjoy hunting with my Dad when we can. There will come a time when he's not physically able to hunt the way we like to, will we put out bait piles? No, probably not, but that's his choice.
Like i said at the end of the last post i made, i understand every situation is different, and everybody is different i get that. Maybe you skipped that part. I wasn't trying to boast about my skill of hunting, cuz i don't have much lol.
It doesn't matter though, I'm happy with the way i hunt and im glad you are as well. Ultimately were on the same team. Thanks for taking time to add input to this discussion, I've really enjoyed this thread. Best of luck to you as well the rest of the season. :thumbsup:
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Bait, cameras and leaving stands. They all make the owner feel he owns a section of the public land. Also make an area unusable for anyone trying to be considerate or not wishing to hunt near the bait.
It should also be said, mentioning, consideration. Just because someone suddenly “found” a spot they decided to stake a claim too doesn’t mean someone else utilizing climbers or ground sets hasn’t already found and used it for 30yrs. He’d share it Im sure but how will the other guy feel come opening morning, after he’s done so much work, notice the climber guy already there that actually didn’t even see his set in the dark and give him the area? Most often not, he’ll sit 20 yards away in his ladder cause that’s where he laid his eggs and screw the climber guy. Yes it’s state land but who’s more likely to interfere with another’s hunt plans?
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Can anyone honestly say they've hunted a field edge and had a deer come and stand exactly where they want them to right in front of them and gnaw on food? I've hunted a lot of corn field edges in this farm country and I can say that I've rarely experienced that. Especially over some of these fields that are 20-30 acres. I can say that I've had deer zig-zag back and forth between rows, wander aimlessly out into the middle of the field with no sort of pattern or rhyme or reason. The farmers did not plant these field with any intention of helping me kill a deer, they were just kind enough to let me hunt their land.
Now, I have learned the terrain features, the wind patterns, and the trails that these deer use to enter the fields in their evening routines. I have set myself up strategically to "hopefully" place one of them in front of me where I can kill it with my recurve. And even then it rarely works out. But that's what I love, I love the chase, the learning involved. That's what I call hunting.
If you have a pile of corn out, in January here, I can GUARANTEE there will be deer on it. I can't say it's the trophy buck you're after, but you are guaranteed to have deer come to it. Can't say the same about a picked corn field that may or may not have anything left once it's been harvested in Oct or November.
Once again, I'm not knocking anyone's tactics. All of this I've been saying is based on my state of OHIO. I know some states are different, situations are different, and people are just different in the way they do things. As long as it's legal I'm okay with it to a degree. But you cannot tell me there is no obvious difference there.
Brother with complete respect. Very simple answer is yes and 100s of times yes. Over 40 years of regular yes. You need to play the wind, focus on preferred food sources and it’ll pretty easily happen. I live in heavier hunted areas and can’t imagine someone not having this happen regular at least early season until pressure gets them. Most of it from sloppy hunt techniques of others.
Now if something is GUARANTEED its prob not very sporting in my eyes.
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Another thought that's been on my mind is why is baiting for Turkey unacceptable? As long as the population is strong why is it any different than deer?
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Bait, cameras and leaving stands. They all make the owner feel he owns a section of the public land. Also make an area unusable for anyone trying to be considerate or not wishing to hunt near the bait.
It should also be said, mentioning, consideration. Just because someone suddenly “found” a spot they decided to stake a claim too doesn’t mean someone else utilizing climbers or ground sets hasn’t already found and used it for 30yrs. He’d share it Im sure but how will the other guy feel come opening morning, after he’s done so much work, notice the climber guy already there that actually didn’t even see his set in the dark and give him the area? Most often not, he’ll sit 20 yards away in his ladder cause that’s where he laid his eggs and screw the climber guy. Yes it’s state land but who’s more likely to interfere with another’s hunt plans?
Dude yes 100%
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Another thought that's been on my mind is why is baiting for Turkey unacceptable? As long as the population is strong why is it any different than deer?
I’d like to clear up my posts as well…and your post buckeye will help
It may very well have sounded like I am advocating for baiting and think baiting is on par with other methods of hunting…and that’s not the case
Baiting definitely gives some advantages…not guarantees but advantages
All I’m saying is I wish that baiting was not so species specific… And I wish that baiting wasn’t viewed in such a negative light for other species. I don’t believe that baiting should be allowed all day every day, but I do believe that if you’re allowed to bait for hogs, Whitetail deer and exotics, you should be able to bait for all other species and not be viewed as a sub-par hunter simply because you’re using that tactic on a species that traditionally hasn’t been hunted using bait…like Turkey, mule deer, elk, etc.
You mentioned something earlier about some animals like bears being allowed to hunt over bait, because of how difficult or nearly impossible it is for them to be killed with a bow without the use of bait… If that was the case, then why can’t you bait for rocky mountain bighorn sheep, dall sheep, moose or other species, who can be nearly impossible to get with a bow and are once in a lifetime hunts in some states…imagine what people would say if you killed a bighorn sheep over bait… you would be crucified out of the hunting community :-)
Why one animal is viewed as a lower form of species than another thereby allowing for the use of bait I don’t agree with…
Again, I’m not saying that bait is my preferred method, or that bait is on the same level as other forms of hunting, but if you can spend thousands of dollars on a man-made bait pile, (food plot) or kill a bear over a pile of donuts… and in either case be congratulated for your accomplishment, then you should also be congratulated for killing any other species over bait.
It sounds weird to say that but that’s because as a society we have set the standard of what animals are worthy or (less worthy) thus allowing for bait
Past generations may have used bait I have no idea, but they were providing for their families and filling the freezer so to speak they didn’t care about how big a Deers rack was… I doubt they would have frowned upon a bait pile if it meant meat for their family… in today’s society there’s still many of us who at times, are simply filling the freezer…the use of bait should be an acceptable method if all you’re doing is putting meat in the freezer… similar to eating a beef cow… We fatten up beef cows simply to shoot them in the head with a 22 caliber activated device… And nobody has a problem doing it or eating the meat afterward, and they are just animals like the animals we hunt:)
Again, I’m all for the skill and woodsmanship required to outsmart a wild game animal with a traditional bow… it’s one of my favorite things to do in life, and I’ve done it successfully for over 20 years, without the use of bait (with the exception of bears and hogs) but there are some tags that I’ve had, and it would’ve been nice to use bait simply to fill the freezer:)
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Another thought that's been on my mind is why is baiting for Turkey unacceptable? As long as the population is strong why is it any different than deer?
I’d like to clear up my posts as well…and your post buckeye will help
It may very well have sounded like I am advocating for baiting and think baiting is on par with other methods of hunting…and that’s not the case
Baiting definitely gives some advantages…not guarantees but advantages
All I’m saying is I wish that baiting was not so species specific… And I wish that baiting wasn’t viewed in such a negative light for other species. I don’t believe that baiting should be allowed all day every day, but I do believe that if you’re allowed to bait for hogs, Whitetail deer and exotics, you should be able to bait for all other species and not be viewed as a sub-par hunter simply because you’re using that tactic on a species that traditionally hasn’t been hunted using bait…like Turkey, mule deer, elk, etc.
You mentioned something earlier about some animals like bears being allowed to hunt over bait, because of how difficult or nearly impossible it is for them to be killed with a bow without the use of bait… If that was the case, then why can’t you bait for rocky mountain bighorn sheep, dall sheep, moose or other species, who can be nearly impossible to get with a bow and are once in a lifetime hunts in some states…imagine what people would say if you killed a bighorn sheep over bait… you would be crucified out of the hunting community :-)
Why one animal is viewed as a lower form of species than another thereby allowing for the use of bait I don’t agree with…
Again, I’m not saying that bait is my preferred method, or that bait is on the same level as other forms of hunting, but if you can spend thousands of dollars on a man-made bait pile, (food plot) or kill a bear over a pile of donuts… and in either case be congratulated for your accomplishment, then you should also be congratulated for killing any other species over bait.
It sounds weird to say that but that’s because as a society we have set the standard of what animals are worthy or (less worthy) thus allowing for bait
Past generations may have used bait I have no idea, but they were providing for their families and filling the freezer so to speak they didn’t care about how big a Deers rack was… I doubt they would have frowned upon a bait pile if it meant meat for their family… in today’s society there’s still many of us who at times, are simply filling the freezer…the use of bait should be an acceptable method if all you’re doing is putting meat in the freezer… similar to eating a beef cow… We fatten up beef cows simply to shoot them in the head with a 22 caliber activated device… And nobody has a problem doing it or eating the meat afterward, and they are just animals like the animals we hunt:)
Again, I’m all for the skill and woodsmanship required to outsmart a wild game animal with a traditional bow… it’s one of my favorite things to do in life, and I’ve done it successfully for over 20 years, without the use of bait (with the exception of bears and hogs) but there are some tags that I’ve had, and it would’ve been nice to use bait simply to fill the freezer:)
Real nice post brother, i like how you worded that :thumbsup:
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Another thought that's been on my mind is why is baiting for Turkey unacceptable? As long as the population is strong why is it any different than deer?
Thank God it’s not, turkeys get almost tame when fed. Deer can as well but not nearly so quickly as turks. Years back I’d throw some corn out by my house, I’d never hunt there but my kids liked watching the birds. I’d be on the deck grilling, birds would run up, heads cocked sideways looking for the hand out. I’d get a bucket and they’d come within feet. Takes deer longer but that can happen with them too.
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Well it started out as what laws you would like to see changed to a bait debate.
As for antler restrictions I have hunted NY all my life and still do even though I am a Fl. resident now. My opinion is it is the best thing they have done. The quality of deer is improving every year and we are seeing bigger and more bucks in our area.
As for blaming the city hunters for all the problems that is hogwash. Spending much time with the locals I learned where much of the hurting put on a heard was coming from. And it wasn't the city guys.
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Just WHERE do you hunt, that you see bigger and more bucks Carlo??
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Mostly Sullivan and Delaware counties. Used to own property in Otsego but I sold that piece when I moved to Fl. 3 years ago.
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As someone who hunts almost exclusively on heavily pressured public land, claiming that APR's don't work on public land is just not true. The quality of deer in the area has gotten significantly better in the few years that these restrictions have been in place. The reason that they work is because they are MANDATORY for everyone, it is not optional. It's still not going to necessarily produce monster bucks since that's just the nature of the area that I hunt, but it has made seeing a decent buck a realistic possibility.
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I bird hunted today on public, the amount of baiting illegally makes me sick. There’s no ag, so the deer are easy to hunt, they HAVE to forage during daylight. Except not, because of the number of people throwing out bait. I think the DNR is LAZY, most hunters are too. It would be easy to mark the vehicles in the morning, and when the hunting is typically done around 10 or 11 go find their stands. Usually this consists of following the scared hunters flagging tape adorning the woods. So pretty to see on the public. Walk up on the stand placed wrong for most predominant winds, and the corn, beets, and carrots they STILL SELL at each gas station…. Did I mention it’s illegal yet they sell “deer bait” everywhere? APR’s or not, crossbows suck and so does bait. But good luck with any rule enforcement by DNR who never leave the vehicle. Irritated….YES
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As for laws I would like to see removed would be crossbows in the archery season.
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Mississippi has 5 full months of squirrel blasting. Would be nice if bow season could be enjoyed without it.
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Hunted 4W since 1978... Bear Spring WMA borders our mountain.
Bucks aren't any bigger now, than they were back then. :readit:
How was your herd in Otsego?? 4F doesn't have antler restrictions....
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Be allowed to bowhunt during gun season.
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Be allowed to bowhunt during gun season.
That one is pretty silly, not sure of the reasoning for that?
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Woodchucker sent you PM.
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Be allowed to bowhunt during gun season.
That one is pretty silly, not sure of the reasoning for that?
Pretty sure you cannot in Kansas
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I've used cross bows and I've come to hate them.
Use crossbows only during rifle season.
No deer hunting with dogs at any time.
Control the number of hunters who use public land during deer seasons to avoid hunter over crowding. Designate each year's access and use by a lotto drawing with a limited number of opportunities to hunt on a seasonal basis. You don't win a spot, you don't hunt that year. Restrict access and use in some areas.
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I'd like Pa. to require written permission to be on private land. Though I doubt it would stop trespassing. But a fine if you get caught would at least make some of them think.
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Why can't you bow hunt during the gun season in Iowa. That makes no sense. Just like here in WV we can use a muzzleloader that shoots 200 yards with a scope but we can not substitute a bow.SMH
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I would like to see NYS go to a one buck per license. As mentioned earlier, hunters need to show restraint, and with the current system, they do not have to. I am in 4Y, while we were not affected at all by CWD a decade ago, we were hit hard by coyotes, EHD, and rampant poaching. With limited DEC EnCon Officers, the poaching will always be there, possible lifetime hunting ban if caught? One "hunter" was nabbed 2 years in a row, shooting at RoBo Deer, in the same location!
The coyotes are now under control, with small game and turkey populations finally making a comeback, but the poaching is still ridiculous (opening day of BOW season one year, I counted 72 rifle shots from just before sunrise to 9AM!!!), and ONLY due to a cooperative effort between farmers and landowners last season to NOT kill any deer due to the EHD decimation, there are deer around this season. The DEC knew of the EHD outbreak in June, yet still did not amend the issuance of DMP's.
Regardless, the DEC seriously needs to get back to it's foundation of sound biological management and the wise use of natural resources. It is only focused on selling as many licenses as possible to fill the state coffers. NYS can be a whitetail destination, but it has not been properly managed EVER. I don't even have hope anymore, as I have seen the decline for nearly 5 decades.
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In PA while bowhunting for whitetail deer in your tree stand while in a concurrent season (rabbit-squirrel-pheasant-grouse etc) if a shot opportunity on one of these small game critters comes about, one must don a florescent orange 250sq inch vest/jacket and a 100 sq inch hat to fling an arrow at it. I confirmed this with the local WCO he also went on to say if you have any small game critters in your possession you better have FLO O on. Seems Dumb
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Also, in NYS, even if you have a license to carry, you CANNOT carry your handgun while bowhunting during the archery season.
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In Illinois
1) be able to quarter out animal in field.
they let you do it only if you retain the sex of the deer. I asked no, no one can give me an answer.
2) Public land map in every parking area with "hunt board".
I have and know many of you did use one of these on a paid hunt, they have a board, to where you put a name/number to where you are going to be hunting. You do not have to put the exact tree, but I feel that this would help one another. This way I know roughly where someone is so I do not waste my time or ruin their hunt coming in. This more importantly in the times that something has happened give the people searching for the hunter a place to start at.
3) Use of Bicycling/Horse trails pay a fee.
I have seen way to many people get to enjoy themselves on our and anglers back. They do not have to pay a fee for it, it was made using the money from hunters/Anglers. Yet, the hunter/Angler must give way with nothing gained. If they want the big parking area (woods lost) with electricity and hook up with concrete they should pay a fee for it, just as all of us happily do to Camp.
4) Herd Management
I understand and believe that it must be done, there are 5 counties in Illinois that for years they made it that a Doe can not be harvested for first 15 days of the bow season. When I inquire as to reasoning, they said to increase population, makes sense. But when I bring up, "On the 16th day of bow season, I can legally shoot 6 Does if I have the tags, what did we gain? Would it not make more sense to limit firearms harvest (since they have a stronger impact on management than bow), they almost blew a gasket (loose money)." It is about limiting Bow Season, not about managing the herd. Sorry needed to get it off chest.
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No deer drives on public lands, only on private lands should be allowed.
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Folks I haven't read through all of the post's so this may have already been mentioned. Here in MT I would love to see the ridiculous continuous 5 WEEK rifle season that runs right through the rut cut back to two weeks outside of the rut. End the automatic outfitter tag allotment. End the any weapon shoulder season for cow elk that runs from Aug. 15 to Feb. 15 in some areas of the state. Don't even get me started on the cost of license's and tags for a tax paying resident ! :banghead: