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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Tim J Hoeck on October 11, 2022, 07:23:01 PM

Title: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Tim J Hoeck on October 11, 2022, 07:23:01 PM
Do you use different muscles drawing a longbow versus a recurve?
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Bisch on October 11, 2022, 07:27:14 PM
No! The draw is all the same, at least for me it is. I don’t know anything about ASL or English longbows other than they have a completely different grip style than recurves and R/D or hybrid longbows.

Bisch
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: woodchucker on October 11, 2022, 07:51:30 PM
No, I hear tell... That your draw length will be about an inch shorter though :dunno:
I do know this... I can't hit a bull in the A$$ with my Howard Hill longbow...

I'm sticking to my old Bear recurves :thumbsup:  :archer: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: McDave on October 11, 2022, 07:58:09 PM
Agree with Bisch.  However, it does feel different to draw a longbow than a recurve.  The force draw curve of a longbow is steeper toward the end of the draw than a recurve.  This is more evident with a straight limbed longbow than a r/d longbow.  Just something to get used to.  Usually, longbows are not cut past center, so this makes a difference in your sight picture and also your instinctive aiming.  Again, more of a difference with a straight limbed longbow.  Some r/d longbows are cut as far past center as recurves.  Also, longbows that are not cut to center require a weaker arrow spine than bows that are cut past center.  Perhaps the biggest difference is the shape of the grip in straight limbed longbows compared with recurves.  Some r/d longbows have grips that are very similar to recurve grips.  The bottom line is that there is a whole spectrum of longbows, some of which are quite different from recurves and some of which are almost identical.  There is only one defining characteristic of longbows, and that is that the string only touches the bow at the string nock.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Al Dente on October 12, 2022, 07:24:30 AM
Woodchucker, same for me!!!!  Couldn't hit the ocean standing on the beach.
McDave, great explanation.
I won a handmade longbow several years ago at an NYB Banquet, and I have tried, tried, and tried again to decent shot placement, and I simply cannot.  Once retirement comes, I will devote more time to it.  So fornow, it is my Wes Wallace that it is my hands.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Terry Green on October 12, 2022, 09:03:24 AM
Nah, no difference.  The Magic T is The Magic T no matter what bow.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Wudstix on October 12, 2022, 11:26:40 AM
Agree with Bisch, David and Terry.  My experience has only been with recurve, mostly Big River and D/R longbows.  My MOAB has zero transfer time from recurve to longbow.  Big River (21st Century clone) longbow has a locator style grip that takes a handful of arrows to get in the groove, Kota longbow, D-shaped mid D/R, as well.  I don't notice much difference in the draw other than different poundage, but haven't shot ASL.  According to G. Fred, I shoot "straight limbed recurves".
 :campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Wheels2 on October 13, 2022, 05:40:19 AM
The draw cycle of a bow means a lot.
Last year after shoulder surgery I started to shoot again.  I had three recurves, all drawing within 2 pounds of each other.
Standard profile limbs were easiest and my starting point.  I had to work into the Morrisin Max6. And then later, the Border Hex9.
For me, the earlier load of the bigger curves made the difference.
I suspect that is what you are experiencing.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Eecho on October 16, 2022, 05:48:02 AM
I can’t tell any difference btw recurves and R/D longbows. I guess it really depends on on the draw curve of the individual bow and where along the curve it stacks and by how much? thoughts?
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Red Beastmaster on October 16, 2022, 08:00:58 AM
How could you possibly use different muscles???
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: McDave on October 16, 2022, 10:16:45 AM
How could you possibly use different muscles???

Maybe I don't understand your question.  Of course it's possible to use different muscles when pulling a longbow vs. a recurve.  Is your question, why would anybody do that?
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: McDave on October 16, 2022, 10:35:24 AM
I can’t tell any difference btw recurves and R/D longbows. I guess it really depends on on the draw curve of the individual bow and where along the curve it stacks and by how much? thoughts?

After shooting any two bows for a while, each will feel different to me, be they a r/d longbow and a recurve, two recurves, or two longbows.  But to me, the difference in feel between drawing a highly reflex deflexed longbow and a recurve is no more significant than between two longbows or two recurves.  In fact I will notice more difference in the feel of drawing a straight limbed longbow and a highly reflex deflexed longbow than I will between the r/d longbow and a recurve.

The real difference for me boils down to two related things: a r/d longbow will shoot somewhat slower than a comparable recurve, and a r/d longbow will have much less possibility of limb twist than a recurve.  I don't think there is any way to overlook the fact that the more the limbs are recurved, the more energy is stored, and the more the limbs are recurved, the greater the chance that they will get twisted.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Steve D on October 16, 2022, 10:59:04 AM
 Tim check you private message's .Thanks
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Wheels2 on October 16, 2022, 01:57:16 PM
Same muscles, but in different amounts of exertion depending on the draw cycle.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Red Beastmaster on October 16, 2022, 08:36:35 PM
McDave, what's not to understand? Of course you are using the same muscles. It's a push pull.  Unless you have some radically weird way of drawing one bow over another.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: McDave on October 16, 2022, 11:07:47 PM
Some use the traps, some use the lats, some use the biceps, some transfer the weight early, some late, some not at all, some use the triceps to steady the bow arm, some just hold  the bow arm out there, some use varying degrees of hand and forearm muscles, some use different combinations of all of the above.  Some use core muscles to achieve different degrees of upper body rotation to take some of the weight off the upper body muscles and transfer it to the bones.  There must be at least a thousand different ways to use different muscles in different combinations to draw the bow.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Red Beastmaster on October 17, 2022, 07:10:01 AM
OK OK so there's a zillion ways to draw a bow.  Some use this and some use that. The question was do you use different muscles to draw a recurve and a longbow. 

I would assume he's talking about the same person, not one person using traps and another person using lats, core rotation, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: McDave on October 17, 2022, 08:47:49 AM
I draw a longbow exactly the same way I draw a recurve, or at least I try to.  But my longbows are all r/d, cut to or past center, with contoured grips.  Some would say those aren’t really longbows at all.  I've tried shooting my friends' straight limbed longbows with straight grips, without much success or desire to master them.  From what I observe, they all shoot them much the way Asbell describes in his book, with a grip “like they are trying to choke a snake” and more canted on average than I do.  They do pretty well at it, and really enjoy them, so to each his own.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Rob DiStefano on October 20, 2022, 07:32:00 AM
There are two possible prominent differences 'tween a longbow and recurve - the grip shape/type, and how the string lies on the limbs.  I prefer a longbow solely because there is no limb slap, not ever, no matter what.  Most any grip usually works fine for me.

(https://www.tradgang.com/docs/trad-imgs/recurve-braced.jpg) 

(https://www.tradgang.com/docs/trad-imgs/mild-braced.jpg)
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: M60gunner on October 20, 2022, 03:25:20 PM
I seem to remember a picture with Howard Hill and a couple other archers at full draw comparing the body form between a recurve man and Hill bow man. It was a promotional ad saying how much less stress the body has shooting a LB. Even had some doctors recommendations. I often thought about this as just another sales pitch because I don’t notice any difference switching back and forth except for the grip and sight picture.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Tim J Hoeck on October 20, 2022, 04:21:37 PM
The reason I asked the question is because I started to shoot a longbow back in March and I started to have pain in the neck and sometimes I couldn’t  reach full draw and couldn’t shoot very many shots. Then for some reason I grabbed the recurve to shoot in the yard and no pain. I can pull the long bow and it hurts but can take the recurve a no pain. That’s why I asked. Recurve I’d 5 # heavier
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: MnFn on October 20, 2022, 05:21:19 PM
Actually, I have heard that before. There is another Black Widow guy who gets pain when he tries to shoot longbows. None with a recurve.  Maybe he will chime in.

It does not matter to me, but I am getting more comfortable with my Liberty English and my BW PLX.
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Kirkll on October 21, 2022, 09:15:51 PM
Same muscles, but in different amounts of exertion depending on the draw cycle.

I would second this quote, and add that...... if your grip is the same on two different bows, (open handed placement, light finger pressure) the same muscles will be used.   

Now if you are choking the chicken, and actually gripping the bow. then you are going to use different muscles in your bow arm.

Your alignment at full draw , and form can effect which muscles are used using the same bow.    Kirk
Title: Re: Longbow versus recurve?
Post by: Tim J Hoeck on October 24, 2022, 10:16:04 PM
Time to get rid of my longbows