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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Kirkll on April 12, 2022, 10:48:52 PM
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I've been following some threads about ASL long bows and hand shock, and thought i'd ask you guys a few questions to wrap my head around some of this stuff. I've got a little sketch i drew up here to refer to.
My question is this: Where do you center your grip in the riser from fad to fade and balance the limbs to the pressure point? and how far above center to you locate your shelf?
I typically center my riser to the deepest part of the grip, then put the shelf 3/4" above for a long bow. But with these ASL risers and straight grips.... Its uncharted waters for me. :dunno:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] Kirk
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I'm doing wood lam bows, so it may not translate but I make the limbs the same length and center the riser on the center of the bow, with the deepest part of the grip on the center as well. I set the arrow rest at 1.25" up from center and shoot 3 under.
My $0.02 on hand shock with flat bows is that most people make the tips too wide and the extra weight causes much of the shock. If you make a pyramid back profile and really narrow the tips down there just isn't much weight out there to cause trouble.
Mark
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Longcruise or flem make them.
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I already spent my.02$ on this question in another forum.
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This is the last one I made. 15 inch riser, center of riser is center of bow, limbs both same lenght. Shelf 1 1/2 above center. Very slight positive 1/16 on upper limb. Total .003 taper where last 8 inches have a .004 reverse taper. Very quiet in hand.
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How long is that bow Bue? It's got a nice string angle.
Actually i have no interest in building any of these ASL bows even though they are kinda sexy looking...
I'm doing wood lam bows, so it may not translate but I make the limbs the same length and center the riser on the center of the bow, with the deepest part of the grip on the center as well. I set the arrow rest at 1.25" up from center and shoot 3 under.
My $0.02 on hand shock with flat bows is that most people make the tips too wide and the extra weight causes much of the shock. If you make a pyramid back profile and really narrow the tips down there just isn't much weight out there to cause trouble.
Mark
Wood bows work the same way as glass bows do as far as balance goes, just a different procedure getting there and materials used to do it. I think you are right about eliminating as much tip weight as possible on these low pre load designs with less string tension. Less weight to stop.
Something else that isn't talked about much is string silencers, and placement of them. This can kill a lot of vibration as well as noise. Typically this design is pretty quite by nature anyway. But for those guys that have one with a lot of kick to it, I would try using cat whiskers set at 12" at the bottom & about 9-10" down from the top limb tip. This offset causes the string to quit moving a lot quicker and will help with vibration transfer. Kirk
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67 inches ntn
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good looking bow Bue.... or should i call it a "Bue Bow" , not to be confused with a Boo Boo bow. :biglaugh:
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"Actually i have no interest in building any of these ASL bows even though they are kinda sexy looking..."
Heard that before. Start asking questions and that seed will find purchase :goldtooth:
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"Actually i have no interest in building any of these ASL bows even though they are kinda sexy looking..."
Heard that before. Start asking questions and that seed will find purchase :goldtooth:
Ahhh ....Well.... Maybe just one wouldn't hurt. :saywhat: :saywhat: :tongue:
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What's the difference in a ASL and a Hill style? :dunno:
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The two references are used interchangeably. Some think ASL is contrived and not specific enough.
I agree with the American part, it fits. The longbow part fits also, but it's not as long as an ELB. But did it evolve from the ELB or the Native American Flatbow? or both? Maybe it should be ALB, or MELB, or ALFB
Hill style is a specific reference, that does not have a wide range of deviation from the evolved design.
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:thumbsup:
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Someone once posted a link to these drawings that I found very useful. I don't have the link but I do have the drawing saved. Hope it is OK to post the drawings without giving proper credit to the person that created it.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Jim Thorne Build your own Bow
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Visually that is my favorite riser style and the original St. Charles recurve, for me is the best looking bow of all time.
I should make one someday :biglaugh:
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Thanks, Max. :thumbsup:
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I got to know Jim Thorn pretty well years ago. He played a huge part in WTT doing all the DFC charts, and helping make sure all the tests were done equally. That was a big undertaking putting that together. It was hosted by Ken Roloph at his shop in Wisconsin.
I attended that event personally, and still have Jim’s WTT entry bow that he gave me when we were done. He Told me I could use it as a tomato stake if I wanted. NOT!
Jim did some beautiful work in those years and was always testing different theories. Forever the mad scientist…. Lol. Great guy!
Bill Howland was another great guy to know back then. I remember tests where we were all building our own action wood from rock hard maple and walnut and other assorted woods and reporting results. Those were really fun years to build bows together and share all that info freely. Kirk
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I bought Jim’s Hammer R/D plans for 15.00$
He seems like a cool guy
What wood made the best action wood Kirk?
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I bought Jim’s Hammer R/D plans for 15.00$
He seems like a cool guy
What wood made the best action wood Kirk?
I believe the best stuff for hot rods was hickory and walnut. But Walnut / Rock hard Maple wasn't bad either, and more durable. Hickory is fast limb wood but very brittle. I also did some using clear vertical grain Douglas fir and walnut. That made a very light weight, very quick actionwood, but its very expensive to build with the price of CVG Fir these days....
I still have some old growth doug fir lams that i milled a long time ago. Got the wood from a building built in the early 1900's. It actually makes a great limb core material. good strength vs flexibility, and very light weight.
Bottom line was making your own action wood isn't cost effective, and its not really enough gain to make it worthwhile. IMO Kirk
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Oh man I am gonna get crucified for this, but I like a 14” riser and 2-1/4” tall x 1-1/2 to start. I like Myrtle lams and Hard rock Maple for a core. Finished width is 1” and .400 + at the center. Deep cored and narrow limbs. Limb tip edges of 1/16” x 5” long. Riser of Myrtle. Caramel colored glass. I’ve avg speeds of 183 fps and very low hand shock. 25 years experience in building these.
I am done trying to improve. Out of money !!!
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Sounds like you have an excellent recipe, Gary :thumbsup:
What poundage does the build get you?
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Hey Gary.... How are ya doing down there in God's country?
If you are getting 183 FPS at 10 gpp with minimal hand shock, i wouldn't want to change a thing myself.
Kirk
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Depends on how much I go over .400” at center. Typically about 45- 50. At my charts .450”!will give at 45# -and .490”’is consistent to 50# limb width is just a hair over 1” at fades. 5” limb wedges. Wood is the key. Some is tighter grain than others and edge grain will produce better bows than face grain but folks want face grain in the clear glass for veneers. I do not build many bows anymore. I’ m older and smarter, I’d rather test my luck fishing and crabbing. !!
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Kirk. The lings are hitting good but we are getting 3-4 hr windows to cross the bar unless you are on a Charter boat. Went out a couple weeks ago and slayed the lings, kept 4 and released about 20 that were too small: kept only 27” and bigger, perfect seas. Should continue to improve, I’m working on Stripped Bass and Surf Perch right now. Well as long as I can afford gas in the old truck.!!!
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Kirk. The lings are hitting good but we are getting 3-4 hr windows to cross the bar unless you are on a Charter boat. Went out a couple weeks ago and slayed the lings, kept 4 and released about 20 that were too small: kept only 27” and bigger, perfect seas. Should continue to improve, I’m working on Stripped Bass and Surf Perch right now. Well as long as I can afford gas in the old truck.!!!
Well I finally got the Admiral to let me out past the jaws and do some bottom fishing, but haven’t gone out yet this spring. She’s pretty spooked. I got a trip scheduled for early May after they open for near shore halibut with a seasoned skipper. Kat May or may not come along on that trip, but I’m betting she will. She loves bottom fishing. Weather and sea conditions will determine our windows.
But we are fishing Springers in the Willamette now a bit and it’s starting to pick up as the fish move in. Need a bit higher water temp and the bite will be on! The boat is running great this Spring so far…. Kirk