Post by: simonbradley on March 29, 2022, 11:37:24 AM
My name is Simon, I am new here and would like to build a bow. I like the Turkish style as it is shorter and I like the shape of it. I would like to build a basic bow of wooden siyahs and handle, the rest is a fibreglass (from the UK) material. I am not sure if it is called G10, some places seem to call it epoxy fibreglass. It is usually green in colour, about 30mm wide and 5mm thick (approx). I would like to make some as I can not find a supplier in the UK. I am not sure if this is G10 or not, I have found a supplier of uni-directional tape which is 50mm wide. I understand that if you were to build a bow using tape it should be uni-directional. I am not 100% sure why as I can't find much about making these sort of bows. There are youtube videos on laminating a bow but that would include thin strips of wood, either made myself or bought. I am trying to work to a budget and would prefer not using wood laminates at the moment. It seems trickier.
Any advice would be great, Thanks
Simon
EDIT: thanks for the support! and the design is mostly just a straight one piece limb. I have seen people glue the handle and siyahs to a single piece of green glass which is about 1 metre in length and about 30mm wide. They look fairly light weight and simple, it would be making the green single piece limb that would be a trick!
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 29, 2022, 11:46:24 AM
I'm sure you will get plenty of info here for that bow.
Post by: Kirkll on March 29, 2022, 12:29:27 PM
Hopefully Max will be of some help on limb design, and I believe Shredd has some experience with laying up his own glass. He may have suggestions for laying up your own composites.
Good luck! Please post your progress on this adventure. Kirk
Post by: Mad Max on March 29, 2022, 01:18:48 PM
I have seen other people on the internet building bows like that
Post by: KenH on March 29, 2022, 07:39:57 PM
Post by: Mad Max on March 29, 2022, 07:44:05 PM
How long is that one ken?
Post by: Kirkll on March 29, 2022, 08:23:44 PM
I’m curious why you put that handle on the back of the limbs vs the belly? Seems like you would have better luck with it on the belly and a shorter brace height too.
I’d be afraid of it popping off on the back like that.
Kirk
Post by: Shredd on March 29, 2022, 08:42:26 PM
Post by: Mad Max on March 29, 2022, 10:27:40 PM
Pretty cool looking Ken.
I’m curious why you put that handle on the back of the limbs vs the belly? Seems like you would have better luck with it on the belly and a shorter brace height too.
I’d be afraid of it popping off on the back like that.
Kirk
Turkish bows the bulge at the grip is on the back for that style bow :thumbsup:
Post by: KenH on March 29, 2022, 10:57:25 PM
Handle on the back side of the bow is traditional Turkish construction dating back to the 1400s... The originals are wood-horn-sinew, often spiral wrapped with a layer of sinew; then covered with birchbark and layers of lacquer.
Post by: Mad Max on March 29, 2022, 11:33:39 PM
Post by: Kirkll on March 30, 2022, 10:19:30 AM
Unstrung, that bow is 38" -- yes 38" -- in a straight line from nock to nock. That's 51" overall around the outside of the curves. The fiberglass bar is 47" long around the curves, the siyahs add 4" to the spread. Draw weight is 30#@ 28".
Handle on the back side of the bow is traditional Turkish construction dating back to the 1400s... The originals are wood-horn-sinew, often spiral wrapped with a layer of sinew; then covered with birchbark and layers of lacquer.
That’s interesting bro… sounds like you’ve done your homework. It would be fun to get into building some of these older period designs. I’ll bet those are tricky to get a string on. :o :o. Kirk
Post by: simonbradley on March 30, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
Thanks for the response and comments. I have seen some youtube videos, done a little research, ordered some woven roving and now preparing a simple mold for a single strip of uni directional fibreglass. I shall return...
also, that is a nice bow KenH and the short shortie by Max would be a nice goal to achieve.
Post by: KenH on March 30, 2022, 04:15:29 PM
"Converting" some of those designs from wood-horn-sinew construction to modern materials can be a real challenge.
At 30# that bow isn't hard to string. If it was much more though, I would make a stringing board to facilitate things.
Post by: simonbradley on April 09, 2022, 05:04:37 PM
This is an update on what I have done so far. I made a former and lid which i wrapped in cling film, which I think you call saran wrap. Laid the individual strips of fibre in the former and then poured in the epoxy. There are bubbles in the end result. It had some flexibility but not much and a little effort, it bent and snapped.
I left the former outside in the shed over night as I thought that having an epoxy glue go off in my room was not good. So I am not sure if the method of how I did it was wrong, the temperature or what.
I have ordered some unidirectional tape, 50mm wide (I believe you would call that 2 inches) I was hoping to lay that on some PVC pipe and glue it straight on with epoxy. Would I have to apply pressure for it to fix?
I cannot seem to find any info on what I want to do. I have a book "Glassfibre handbook" which mentions hand lay up.
Any advice welcome, thanks buds
Simon
Post by: Mad Max on April 09, 2022, 05:56:28 PM
Need a larger picture to see what is going on. :dunno:
Post by: simonbradley on April 09, 2022, 06:04:04 PM
The idea is a simple 28mm x 800mm x 3mm(ish) glass fibre limb. You see them on youtube when a guy will just glue siyahs and a handle to a green limb. The form is 800mm long by 3mm deep by 28mm wide. The lid was not well thought out as it snapped as I tightened it to the form.
Post by: Kirkll on April 09, 2022, 07:46:32 PM
Come on Shredd.... you've played with laying up glass before. Give this old boy some of your vast knowledge.. i've still got some of your lime green chit. Kirk
Post by: KenH on April 09, 2022, 09:54:50 PM
Simon -- I still think you'd be better off locating a seller of FRP bars there in the UK. You could start by contacting this company. Tell them what you're trying to do and ask for help in locating a source> www.allproppedup.co.uk You want solid bars between 30mm and 50mm wide, 3mm to 8mm thick, and 1.5meters long.
Post by: Kauz on April 10, 2022, 01:07:26 AM
for bow glass you might have a look at Merlin Archery Ltd, Unit 1 Great Central Trading Park, Great Central Road, Loughborough, Leicestershire LE11 1RW, Phone: +44 (0) 1509 233555, Customer service email: [email protected]
https://www.merlinarchery.co.uk/everything-else/bow-making/core-materials.html (https://www.merlinarchery.co.uk/everything-else/bow-making/core-materials.html)
They sell Bearpaw glass.
Post by: Shredd on April 10, 2022, 01:36:09 AM
Come on Shredd.... you've played with laying up glass before. Give this old boy some of your vast knowledge.. i've still got some of your lime green chit. Kirk
Just got home from a wedding... I will put my two cents in, in a day or two...
Post by: Shredd on April 10, 2022, 09:14:20 AM
If you want to make your own, bubbles in the glass are a big no-no and will weaken the glass... In the pic I cannot tell if it is bubbles or fractures in the glass, or both...
For removing bubbles I would use a paddle roller like in the link below... Other rollers are not good for unidirectional glass and will get tangled... After you roll it out squeegee it flat... To keep the glass fibers oriented in one direction I would take a bunch of fibers and tape up the end so that you have a horse tail and work the fibers when wetting them out only in one direction... A hair comb can help for wetting out fibers... Don't comb to agressively and keep your comb on a good angle or you will pull and tangle fibers... Wet glass out on thick paper taped to the table or an old board... Lift and flip the horse tail multiple times until fully saturated then put into your form...Use multiple layers of horse tails to build up to the thickness you want.. After rolling out bubbles and excess resin, squeegee off the excess resin... Too much resin in the glass will make it weak...
If I was to make a bow with siyahs and laying up my own glass I might try laying up the working limb and siyahs all in one layup on a curved form so you would have reflex built in after you pull the part.. The siyahs may be a bit heavy though or you could experiment and add a wedge of wood between the layers of glass in the siyah area to lighten them...
I would stay away from pvc unless you are gonna build an all pvc bow.. You will find you will have adhesion issues when trying to adhere other things to it...
Hope this info helps...
https://grptools.com/products/laminating-rollers/paddle-roller/
Post by: simonbradley on April 10, 2022, 04:30:08 PM
Thanks for the advice. I will look at the method you mentioned about working the glass before putting it in the former. I did it in the former. Using fibreglass is something that I have had an interest in for a few years and never tried. So I will keep it up and look at different options for bows.
Thanks again all!
Simon
Post by: Shredd on April 10, 2022, 08:55:10 PM