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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Honest Jon on March 22, 2022, 08:44:52 AM

Title: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on March 22, 2022, 08:44:52 AM: After three afternoons of trying to chase paper thin grain lines on an otherwise nice piece of Osage, I’ve thrown in the towel! The search function of Tradgang has come to my rescue….I hope. Good advice on here suggested backing with rawhide in such a case. So, I’m half way through doing just that and I think it’s going to work fine. I’ve backed a few bows with rawhide so happened to have some on hand. Anyone have other advice or suggestions?
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Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on March 22, 2022, 08:49:46 AM: Having a little trouble posting pix. I’ll try again.

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Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Pat B on March 22, 2022, 09:15:27 AM: Some of my best selfbows were made with very thin ringed osage. It is difficult to obtain a good back ring so rawhide(or other) backing is almost a necessity. Be sure any violations have been feathered so there are no abrupt edges to them and once the rawhide is applied be sure the back edges of the bow are rounded to help prevent edge splinters from raising.
Looking forward to seeing your progress and the finished bow. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Mad Max on March 22, 2022, 09:30:49 AM: Pat would linen work too?
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Pat B on March 22, 2022, 09:46:36 AM: Yes, linen or silk would work too. These soft backings won't keep a bow from breaking but they will help to prevent it and help to hold down splinters.
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on March 22, 2022, 09:48:01 AM: Here’s a shot of one limb with the rawhide rough trimmed and drying, after about 12 hours. The other limb is freshly applied with rawhide. The challenge was to get the rawhide to lay flat in the inside “recurve” that I already put in this selfbow. Thus the towels and clamps at the far end. I know some will wrap the limbs with tee shirts or something but I’ve seen problems with that when the wrap goes funky and the mess isn’t discovered until all is dry. Instead, I tend the rawhide like a mother hen for a few hours until the glue sets and all is laying flat. Not sure there is a right or wrong way but this has worked for me. I have to set this aside for a few weeks but will report further.
Honest Jon

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Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on March 22, 2022, 09:50:23 AM: Are those faux copperhead snakeskins from 3Rivers and others made from linen? They look really cool on the back of Osage.
Jon
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on March 22, 2022, 10:07:39 AM: Incidentally, the piece of Osage is about 40 rings per inch :knothead:.
Jon
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Pat B on March 22, 2022, 10:50:45 AM: I've found that these thin ring osage bows shoot harder and quicker than osage with thicker rings.
Did you wet the rawhide first before applying it? It looks like you put it down dry. By wetting it it follows the contours of the stave.
When I apply soft backings I do wrap the limbs with strips of old bed sheets. After about an hour I remove the wrap so I can inspect the backing to be sure there are no air bubbles or excess glue pocket or that the backing is still aligned with the bow while the glue has not yet fully dried.
I have used TBIII in the past with good results but now I use hide glue for rawhide.
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on March 22, 2022, 11:28:56 AM: Good stuff Pat. Yes, soaked the rawhide. What you see in the photo is about 12-14 hours after application so has dried considerably.
Based on your comments about thin-ringed Osage, this could turn out to be a good bow and worth the effort and headache. Glad to hear.
Jon
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Pat B on March 22, 2022, 11:56:23 AM: One of my best osage selfbows was very thin ringed, I rawhide backed it and had over 1000 shots through her before me and Evan Williams got together one night and I over drew it. :saywhat: Needles to say she is now a takedown bow that is in many pieces. Definitely not the fault of the thin ringed osage. :nono:
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on March 26, 2022, 08:42:55 AM: Howdy Pat and others!
You were right about these thin-ringed Osage bows. Finished her up this morning and took maybe 20 shots. A super smooth and silent draw and release. And just a nice feel. This isn’t a high power hunting bow but just what I need to keep in shooting shape without wrecking my shoulder. I have a couple thoughts as to why I think it shoots so nice and snappy for a light bow. The rawhide backing may help deaden hand shock along with the high early to late wood ratio in this super high count ring bow. I did note that based on limb thickness, I would have expected a heavier draw result. Perhaps all the early wood offers lower stiffness than one with lots of late wood? Not sure. In any case, thanks for your comments and encouragement. It’s a nice bow that I feared would be a dud. So far, so good! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Honest Jon
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Pat B on March 26, 2022, 08:46:31 AM: Very nice bow, Jon with very clean lines. :thumbsup: Would you post an unbraced and full draw pic for us?
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on March 26, 2022, 09:08:54 AM: My pleasure. Unbraced. Full draw soon. [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on March 26, 2022, 09:32:34 AM: [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Pat B on March 26, 2022, 11:37:54 AM: Excellent!!! Very nice bow, Jon. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Mad Max on March 26, 2022, 11:46:42 AM: Quote from: Pat B on March 26, 2022, 11:37:54 AM
Excellent!!! Very nice bow, Jon. :thumbsup:

x2
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: onetone on March 26, 2022, 04:35:10 PM: Very clean work and nice bow :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Buemaker on March 26, 2022, 05:30:29 PM: Looking great. Some fine sanding have been going on.
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: ozarkcherrybow1 on April 16, 2022, 02:48:38 PM: Great job on that bow! Excellent tiller.
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on April 17, 2022, 01:02:18 PM: Thanks for all the encouraging comments! I learn a lot from every bow I build and the most important lesson is to not give up. It seems with every bow I build, I find myself at a point where I think seriously about making firewood out of the project. This was one of those but now it’s one of my favorite bows to shoot.
Jon
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Mad Max on April 17, 2022, 01:37:03 PM: Go to a fabric shop and get a yard of Linen fabric. It will do many bows.
It's great for backing and easy to glue on, you will never go back to raw hide.
Silk is even better.

Nice job on the bow :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Pat B on April 17, 2022, 01:58:36 PM: ...or dig in your closet for a couple of old silk neck ties and kill 2 birds with one shot, protection and paisley camo. :thumbsup: I think you can get used ties at Good Will for about $2 each.
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Kirkll on April 17, 2022, 09:50:42 PM: I went to the fabric store one time and bought some leopard skin silk…. You want to talk about getting the hairy eye ball in the check out line from all those gals… :o :o :o :biglaugh:

I put the silk under clear glass and used smooth on …. Came out looking like leopard skin too…. Problem was… limbs were 55 @ 28” and the only people who like them were the gals. I couldn’t sell em…… all that extra work and I ended up getting the bow camo film dipped, and THEN I sold it…. If someone ever decides to remove that camo job, they are going to get a surprise. :biglaugh:

Kirk
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Flem on April 18, 2022, 10:41:36 AM: Thats a really fine looking bow. Cosmetically and functionally :thumbsup:

Another backing option might be this Flax material I see advertised for use in composites. Quite a few retailers sell the stuff.
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Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Honest Jon on April 18, 2022, 05:03:45 PM: Is one layer of linen, silk or flax material adequate for a secure backing? I haven’t used those types of backings other than a couple faux rattlesnake or copperhead backings, and that was mainly for looks. Linen/silk/flax sure sounds simple and cheap. I’ve seen burlap used too.
Jon
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Mad Max on April 18, 2022, 05:30:29 PM: Yes 1 layer, Hard to believe but it works :thumbsup:

Large Brown Paper sack from the Grocery store like we use to get a long time ago works good too.
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Pat B on April 18, 2022, 10:43:51 PM: I agree, one layer glued down with TiteBond glue. Be sure to degrease the back before applying the backing. Even finger prints can cause the backing to separate from the back.
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Longcruise on April 19, 2022, 02:57:49 PM: I have considered that with a fairly safe back to begin with that maybe just a few coats of titebond would make a backing.

Any thoughts on that? I know just enough about self bows to screw it up.
Title: Re: Paper Thin Osage Grain Lines
Post by: Pat B on April 19, 2022, 03:51:05 PM: TB would make a backing but without some sort of cloth or paper I don't know how strong it would be. If you don't need a backing don't add one.